[second_brekkie]

It's not surprising that both the cars have the same vulnerability as kia and hyundai are owned by the same parent company.

Its also not unsurprising it was the Korean car manufacturers with these security defects.

In Korea people have 0 converns about their car being stolen. Theft in general is seen as so low a risk that people leave their car windows open a crack in the summer so the car stays ventilated. When the cars are designed by people who live in a society like that, it's not surprising they have a blind spot when it comes to car security.

Edit: hyundai has a majority stake in kia, they dont outright own it, but it's basically as good as. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Motor_Company

[xeromal]

I grew up in Georgia (the state) and besides Atlanta, it is still very much that way. When I stop by my grandparents house, if they're not home I'll just walk on in and pour myself some tea while I wait or watch TV. Their neighbor mows their yard if none of the family can make it over to do it.

Even only 40 mins from Atlanta, people still do that. I guess you call it a high-trust society? It's really only in the big American cities where that trust goes missing.

[busterarm]

Moved from NYC to South Carolina and the culture shock is real.

Doors aren't locked. Neighbors help each other out with stuff like mowing, or bringing bins up/down driveways on trash day. No words are exchanged about it either.

I removed the rust and repainted my mailbox this weekend and then went around the neighborhood to do the same for others while I had spare time and spare paint left.

This is what I moved here for. No way will I stop working remote and go back.

[qup]

Can confirm, I don't own a key to my own home. I bought it without a key and I've never thought to get one.

My neighbor gave me the code to his safe (full of gold coins), "just in case."

[grupthink]

Mentioning safety in Korea is irrelevant. Kia and Hyundai cars in Canada (and other countries) are sold with an immobilizer, and don't have this ignition switch security vulnerability prevalent in the U.S. model.

Additionally, TikTok must be scrutinized/penalized for distributing this "educational" material. Their algos have a strong influence on teens. This content doesn't appear to exist on Youtube (I just did a quick search). Meanwhile, in China, you are censored for merely sharing photos of Winnie the Pooh on Douyin.

[croes]

Penalized for showing an exploit?

If someone posts an exploit on Github and it's taken down people get upset. This is the same and Kia and Hyundai would do nothing about it without the publicity they got from the viral TikTok.

Could be worse and insurance companies claim the owner left the car open so it's their fault the car was stolen.

[concordDance]

Penalising letting people freely communicate seems like a cure worse than the disease.

[brokenmachine]

Yes, we should censor and prosecute people like China does for revealing unpalatable truths.

That's sure to solve our problems with corporations that have been disincentivized to include basic safety mechanisms because of inadequate regulations and/or corporate lobbying.

I'm reminded of the joke headline (usually about mass shootings):

'No Way to Prevent This', Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens.

[toast0]

Where I live, some people don't lock their car doors, and some people leave the keys in their car...

But I don't understand what closing the windows all the way vs leaving them open a crack does for security? Are car windows that much more secure when fully closed? When I'm in sketchy neighborhoods, I expect people to be walking around with slim jims or breaking windows anyway, so a crack doesn't seem like a big deal?

[djaychela]

If the window is cracked open, you can usually get a tool in that will allow you to unlock the car from the inside, as you would if you were inside the car. You can then get in without any noise.

Source: I used to hang out with people who knew car thieves when I was much younger (very early 90s). I knew the area's worst car thief by name, and he would tell you how skilled he was at any opportunity. He always had a thin piece of metal with a hooked end on him (fitted down his jacket arm) for this purpose.

[Gordonjcp]

When I lived in a particularly sketchy part of Glasgow about 20 years ago, I lost the keys for my car. It was an old but quite nice (and fast) Citroën CX, so I was a bit worried that I'd dropped them somewhere and someone would use them to steal the car.

I'd been running around in my work van for a week or so, before - by chance - I parked up beside the Citroën, where I saw the keys hanging from the driver's door.

They'd been hanging in the door all week. No-one had touched it.

[tshaddox]

Yeah, I don’t get why leaving your car windows cracked is supposed to be indicative. I’ve done that even in parts of the Bay Area that are infamous for smash and grabs. They’ll either break your window and be gone 3 seconds later, or they won’t. The cracked window won’t change anything.

[lamontcg]

> But I don't understand what closing the windows all the way vs leaving them open a crack does for security?

Because security is about having slightly higher security than the other person.

It is a game of "you don't have to outrun the bear / swim faster than the shark, you just have to be faster than the other person".

And open car window lets someone easily get in without breaking the glass and attracting attention and the cracked open window may give them the idea to try it in the first place.

The locks on your door are also nearly useless against someone with any lock picking skill at all, and your windows can probably be easily broken, but thieves are more likely to come in through an unlocked door or open window.

And these days with immobilizers, the cars that have them aren't often being stolen by hacking the CANbus, they're being stolen because people leave them idling in the driveway with the fob inside the car and the thief just hops in and drives off--possibly with the kid in the backseat.

If you lock your doors, roll your windows up and don't leave your keys in the car you will have left problems with theft and burglary. You won't eliminate it, but that doesn't mean those precautions don't work at all. Security isn't a binary either-or where you either have perfect security or none at all.

[nulbyte]

> Theft in general is seen as so low a risk that people leave their car windows open a crack in the summer so the car stays ventilated.

This isn't just a Korean thing. I'm in the states, and I've done this with every car I've had. Including the Jeep Wrangler I have now, when I don't have the top down.

[second_brekkie]

Cracking open the window isn't a Korean thing, no. But feeling safe to do it literally anywhere in the country (including deprevated areas) is something you can do in Korea and I'd warn against in the states.

My point is that when the people designing the cars consciously or unconsciously don't think of theft as a concern, their cars might be easier to steal.

[andrewmcwatters]

It reminds me of how Audi puts different horns on cars shipped to India.

[saagarjha]

Hopefully they’re quieter…

[flangola7]

Why would horns need to be different for India?

[zoklet-enjoyer]

The last car I had was broken into in Tukwila. Window smashed. It was really annoying to get it fixed, so I just left my doors unlocked for the rest of the time I owned the car. There was one instance where someone went in my car and dug around. Better than getting the window broken again.

[ornornor]

Aren’t you out of luck with insurance if the car is recovered but wasn’t broken into? Same as a burglary and there is no sign of forced entry, won’t the insurance deny the claim because you didn’t act prudently and locked your door?

[mdmglr]

I don’t understand why you’re mentioning your perception and opinion that people in Korea have 0 concerns about theft. And thus it somehow absolves Hyundai.

I suspect this was a money saving decision on Hyundai and Kia.

Immobilizers were standard on 96% of other manufacturers' models, the institute said. But they were standard on only 26% of Hyundai and Kia models. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hyundai-kia-engine-immobilizer-...

It amazing to me people line up paying over MSRP for some of these cars. Some mechanic friends of mine have said that Hyundais are some of the worse cars. Full engine replacement with less that 30k miles.

[PaulHoule]

i drove a Hyundai Elantra in the mid-2000s. It was a nice car in many respects but around 80,000 miles it started falling apart and needed a $300 repair every month and i figured at that rate i could spend that money on a car payment and be driving a new car so I got a Honda.