Adding the time limit and actually making the clock go faster when a player is (purposefully) going off the rails is a sinister trick to ensure that players get the expected ending message. Clever that the programmer throught of these cases.
Hmmm. I tried about a dozen times before giving up. I thought the game was broken before reading your comment.
Nothing in the game visually indicates that going back is worse than going forwards. As the level is symmetrical, the distance is literally the same. A one-way door, or crumbling floor, would have been easy solutions I think.
There's just barely enough time on the middle and last levels to double back even with the faster clock movement for going the wrong direction. Fun little challenge
On the middle one they only check if you go backwards from the position of the key (I got it to work clockwise). If you continue on the intended path and then go back the clock won't go faster. You have to be fast though.
Echoing all the others that this Trust game is great, I noticed something else that struck me in some of the "play with the dials" stages.
The game showed us that when you decrease the reward for Cooperate/Cooperate from +2 to +1, the Always-Cheats take over. But I tried increasing the reward for above the default of +2 to +3 or +4 and an interesting thing happened: The naïve Always-Cooperates actually took over!
It made me think about how a lot of cynical people -- of both sides of the political divide -- play the 'game' as 'cutthroatly' as possible. I think if you asked these people how they see the world, they'd tell you that "the system is rigged anyway" such that there's barely any benefit to cooperating. "So why shouldn't I exploit everything I can to get mine?" And in a world where there's arguably not enough reward for cooperating, I can see how people arrive at a cynical conclusion and become Always-Cheaters. This is why people who work for minimum wage generally don't want to work hard and provide great customer service. And it's why companies who employ them don't want to pay them a living wage and benefits. Both sides would tell you that the rewards of doing that aren't worth the risks or the cost.
If we could somehow bring about greater rewards for good-faith participation (working hard → a very high likelihood of affording a moderately nice lifestyle), I think a lot of cynicism would be outcompeted by more cooperative attitudes. Obviously I'd already be President of the World if I knew how to just make that happen, though.
Makes me wonder how you could apply this to social media.
What if you had a social media site where you could only see the same set of people? (Say, 150 people - Dunbar's number)
This isn't perfect by any means, but how would you fix it from there? Would you make it mix the population every few months? Maybe just comments/reactions are restricted to your cohort but you can see all posts? Would you mix the population based on some kind of score? Could that score be multi-dimensional?
I love this game and think it is one of the most important things on the internet, but I hate the consequence. The intended message is great: cooperate and forgive so that you can live in a great society. The corollary is absolutely awful... If you let defectors win, you are responsible for creating the defection.
I think game theory is really cool and all, but I'm not sure it actually has much relevance for analyzing human behavior. It is always taught in that way, to simplify it for undergrads, but the mathematical concepts, I think, are significantly more important than the "ethical" questions.
I liked playing this game! The art style, animations, and overall messages were a really good experience! I look forward to sharing this with my friends later.
The message at the end was cute, but playing this was infuriating. :(
It took me like 20 tries just to get past the first panel, because it was buzz with failure every time I got to the door after picking up the key. It took forever to realize the buzz was from the timer, because it always buzzed once I was already at the door, like the door was the wrong goal.
Then once I realized it's time-based, another 20 tries to do the second panel in a short enough time. The third panel was easy, though.
So something seems to be miscalibrated. (Macbook Air M1 on Chrome, and it's not like I've got a slow key repeat configured or anything.) I get that it's trying to force you to take the shortest distance, but playing this made me incredibly angry because it felt like it was unwinnable. And when I finally did succeed on the first and second panels, it felt random -- maybe it gave me extra time or something? It's not like I got any "better" at it.
Best thing I clicked today! Love it! I somehow expected "adding your personal message" to generate a level that would trace out my custom message though.
Just when you are thoroughly resigned to the fact that humanity is just terrible, and that a large asteroid would be just the thing the planet needs, someone comes along and puts something out into the world that is just nice and beautiful.
I am showing this to kids at the game programming hobby group today. This is hilarious. I mean all of Nick's creations are dope, but this one caught me by surprise. :-)
I did it wrong! In the middle one, I didn't make a heart -- I went to and fro both on the left side, so it ended up looking more like a backwards question mark than a heart!
If it's the second frame of the three-panel strip, then, as another commenter hints, the trick is not to double back. You must complete a circuit around the map. I got frustrated and quit long before trying this until reading that comment, but it (arguably) pays off.
I thought the same, I even tried accessing it in guest mode, ahaha. I wonder how complex it would be to extend to custom paths, maybe create predefined paths for some ASCII characters... maybe chatGPT helps me with that <laughs>
It's shockingly not in the archives, so 'dang might have changed the date on an old submission, as he sometimes does for "second chance" (and that updated comment timestamps also, annoyingly).
The art style reminds me of some classic games/animations from Newgrounds. Forgot what they were called. Pretty violent and heavy on social commentary, so it's a bit of a shock to see that style used in such an opposite way!
I want to send this to more people, but I know some of them don't have access to keyboards. It would be great if people could play it on phones and touch screen devices as well :D
This reminds me of early days of internet when flash was starting to gain a foothold. We had so many neat things like this appearing everywhere. Surprises after surprises. Nowadays the internet is really tame compared to that.
circular based design, a mission to find a key (answer), with time constraints, and the ending message (subjective/objective)... this is a work of spiritual art!
phoe-krk|2 years ago
codeflo|2 years ago
Nothing in the game visually indicates that going back is worse than going forwards. As the level is symmetrical, the distance is literally the same. A one-way door, or crumbling floor, would have been easy solutions I think.
mtmickush|2 years ago
prostanac|2 years ago
codetiger|2 years ago
unknown|2 years ago
[deleted]
twic|2 years ago
the__alchemist|2 years ago
djvu97|2 years ago
Kyro38|2 years ago
xp84|2 years ago
The game showed us that when you decrease the reward for Cooperate/Cooperate from +2 to +1, the Always-Cheats take over. But I tried increasing the reward for above the default of +2 to +3 or +4 and an interesting thing happened: The naïve Always-Cooperates actually took over!
It made me think about how a lot of cynical people -- of both sides of the political divide -- play the 'game' as 'cutthroatly' as possible. I think if you asked these people how they see the world, they'd tell you that "the system is rigged anyway" such that there's barely any benefit to cooperating. "So why shouldn't I exploit everything I can to get mine?" And in a world where there's arguably not enough reward for cooperating, I can see how people arrive at a cynical conclusion and become Always-Cheaters. This is why people who work for minimum wage generally don't want to work hard and provide great customer service. And it's why companies who employ them don't want to pay them a living wage and benefits. Both sides would tell you that the rewards of doing that aren't worth the risks or the cost.
If we could somehow bring about greater rewards for good-faith participation (working hard → a very high likelihood of affording a moderately nice lifestyle), I think a lot of cynicism would be outcompeted by more cooperative attitudes. Obviously I'd already be President of the World if I knew how to just make that happen, though.
bentcorner|2 years ago
What if you had a social media site where you could only see the same set of people? (Say, 150 people - Dunbar's number)
This isn't perfect by any means, but how would you fix it from there? Would you make it mix the population every few months? Maybe just comments/reactions are restricted to your cohort but you can see all posts? Would you mix the population based on some kind of score? Could that score be multi-dimensional?
DavidPiper|2 years ago
hayst4ck|2 years ago
DiscourseFan|2 years ago
dadadad100|2 years ago
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Evolution_of_Cooperation
jspann|2 years ago
tamasnet|2 years ago
nmz|2 years ago
baggachipz|2 years ago
hddqsb|2 years ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tit_for_tat
crazygringo|2 years ago
It took me like 20 tries just to get past the first panel, because it was buzz with failure every time I got to the door after picking up the key. It took forever to realize the buzz was from the timer, because it always buzzed once I was already at the door, like the door was the wrong goal.
Then once I realized it's time-based, another 20 tries to do the second panel in a short enough time. The third panel was easy, though.
So something seems to be miscalibrated. (Macbook Air M1 on Chrome, and it's not like I've got a slow key repeat configured or anything.) I get that it's trying to force you to take the shortest distance, but playing this made me incredibly angry because it felt like it was unwinnable. And when I finally did succeed on the first and second panels, it felt random -- maybe it gave me extra time or something? It's not like I got any "better" at it.
neogodless|2 years ago
Have you tried upgrading your M1 processor to an AMD Ryzen? /s (sarcastic, but with love)
__MatrixMan__|2 years ago
chompychop|2 years ago
Jemaclus|2 years ago
mavu|2 years ago
Well, shit.
And THANK YOU!
finnjohnsen2|2 years ago
andy_ppp|2 years ago
ciroduran|2 years ago
jeron|2 years ago
favorited|2 years ago
nyc_pizzadev|2 years ago
nyc_pizzadev|2 years ago
closewith|2 years ago
mordae|2 years ago
dbeley|2 years ago
oaktowner|2 years ago
mehlmao|2 years ago
rahimnathwani|2 years ago
ifvictr|2 years ago
arghwhat|2 years ago
vvatsa|2 years ago
vinc|2 years ago
dwringer|2 years ago
drjasonharrison|2 years ago
I don't play video games at all so playing a game where I have to figure out the goal. Ugh.
carimura|2 years ago
ECBicalho|2 years ago
assimpleaspossi|2 years ago
Why do people create these things and assume everyone will know what's happening.
scubbo|2 years ago
If you're talking about the ending (no spoilers) - those symbols are also widely understood among the target audience of HN.
Alacart|2 years ago
gowld|2 years ago
It's shockingly not in the archives, so 'dang might have changed the date on an old submission, as he sometimes does for "second chance" (and that updated comment timestamps also, annoyingly).
https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
EvanAnderson|2 years ago
Lewton|2 years ago
Night_Thastus|2 years ago
afloyd|2 years ago
makin|2 years ago
greenie_beans|2 years ago
jaimehrubiks|2 years ago
sina|2 years ago
I want to send this to more people, but I know some of them don't have access to keyboards. It would be great if people could play it on phones and touch screen devices as well :D
firesofmay|2 years ago
In the end, the expression on her face was totally worth it. Thank you for making amazing interactive games as always!
xutopia|2 years ago
clueless|2 years ago
sriram_malhar|2 years ago
beefsack|2 years ago
akshayrajp|2 years ago
unknown|2 years ago
[deleted]
trizoza|2 years ago
EngManagerIsMe|2 years ago
Mine said, "I 9 U!"
But I see what they were trying to get me to do, cute.
AntonShalimov|2 years ago
n1c00o|2 years ago
ricardo81|2 years ago
Bjorkbat|2 years ago
entropicgravity|2 years ago
makach|2 years ago
arbitrage|2 years ago
clbrmbr|2 years ago
_boffin_|2 years ago
mogery|2 years ago
Gns89|2 years ago
brunoocasali|2 years ago
shreythecray|2 years ago
metaljr|2 years ago
smcl|2 years ago
toxik|2 years ago
hackerting|2 years ago
mock-possum|2 years ago
krsrhe|2 years ago
[deleted]
6451937099|2 years ago
[deleted]
6451937099|2 years ago
[deleted]
MC68328|2 years ago
Gravityloss|2 years ago
SamBam|2 years ago