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Shopify will be smaller by about 20% and Flexport will buy Shopify Logistics

322 points| virtuosarmo | 2 years ago |news.shopify.com | reply

505 comments

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[+] thegginthesky|2 years ago|reply
I'll tell you a personal anecdote about Shopify and why I dislike the company.

Back in 2019, I was contacted by Shopify for a job opportunity. After acing multiple remote interviews, their recruiter couldn't contain their excitement. They promised me an onsite interview to simply meet the team and potentially secure an offer.

Imagine my surprise when, after enduring a 15-hour economy class flight with barely any time to recover, I received a call from the recruiter. They casually informed me that the team had decided to put me through five grueling back-to-back interviews, including a whiteboard session and a pair programming assignment. Despite my lack of a laptop, they assured me one would be provided.

What followed was an unmitigated disaster. The first interview bombarded me with ecommerce questions, completely unrelated to my field of expertise. The pair programming session was a nightmare, as I was handed a barely functional laptop that delayed the start by 20 minutes, and then given just 30 minutes to complete the task without any assistance.

Bear in mind, I was already physically and mentally drained from the arduous journey.

While the remaining interviews were passable, they were nothing to brag about. After being sent home with the promise of a call, I received a cold rejection a week later, citing a lack of experience based on the onsite interviews.

Looking back, I'm grateful I didn't sacrifice everything for a company with a track record of questionable practices and frequent layoffs.

[+] Rafert|2 years ago|reply
Things changed quite a bit since this quote from February 17:

> “There’s no cuts coming for us,” Harley Finkelstein told The Canadian Press. “We’re in a really good place.”

https://globalnews.ca/news/9494197/shopify-outlook-no-layoff...

[+] marcinzm|2 years ago|reply
In my observation absolute statements about no layoffs are a strong indication of future layoffs in this economy. It's impossible to be certain in this economy so giving an absolute statement is basically a lie. Someone who is so brazen about lying to/deceiving their employees will have no qualms with doing layoffs. On the other hand someone who uses more careful language even if it costs them in the short term is someone who will have more qualms about layoffs.
[+] matwood|2 years ago|reply
I mean, is there another part of that quote? Anytime I've been put on the spot for these types of statements it's always '...at this time.' Nothing in business is static. When the facts change the business has to change.
[+] bartread|2 years ago|reply
"We are changing the shape of Shopify significantly today to pay unshared attention to our mission."

What a way to lead, and what an absolutely grotesque euphemism (not to mention a barbaricly tortuous use of English). Why do companies write like this? It's just awful.

I'm only half-joking when I suggest that if they'd taken this text and asked GPT-4 to rewrite it in a compassionate tone they'd have got a better result. (I say this having used GPT-4 quite regularly in recent weeks, although not for these kinds of purposes. It's quite impressive, along many axes, and I'm confident would have made a decent fist of this piece.)

EDIT: All right, I have to give some credit here. I've now had chance to read the full release and, whilst I don't love the RPG-esque references, I understand that this is fundamentally a piece of internal comms sent to a group of people who are probably used to discussing things in those terms (Lord, preserve us - not my bag). That aside, I thought a lot of the rest of the release was decent and the severance terms seem good, so I have to give props for that. I've left my first impression unedited because, if nothing else, it's an honest reaction to some quite poorly composed introductory remarks and on that basis certainly not entirely unfair.

[+] DelaneyM|2 years ago|reply
I know the reality is more complicated, but it's always jarring to read a "company X had a great! quarter, is firing 20% of employees" headline. Very dystopian.

It seems like these two facts should at least go out in different press releases on different days.

For Shopify, does anyone know whether the 20% figure includes the people leaving with the sale of SFN to Flexport?

Edit: just heard in the earnings call that the 20% headcount reduction does _not_ include the logistics teams going to Flexport.

[+] softwaredoug|2 years ago|reply
I worked at Shopify until the Fall.

Shopify was just a really fun place to work. And in part this was because they did a really good job of interviewing. Technical, yes, but in particular behaviorally.

So I can honestly say that many of the colleagues I know being let go are truly great colleagues. They were some of the most impactful people I worked with in my org (discovery) and they are a great get for any company.

[+] bambataa|2 years ago|reply
Is this the same CEO who decided to double the engineering team in a single year?

https://techcouver.com/2021/01/06/shopify-to-double-engineer...

Aren’t CEOs paid ludicrously well to make long term decisions, rather than just flail around?

[+] VoodooJuJu|2 years ago|reply
>Aren’t CEOs paid ludicrously well to make long term decisions, rather than just flail around?

CEO's are neither prophets nor oracles. They are effectively dice-rolls with a face. Not rollers, but rolls. No matter what, sometimes you get bad numbers.

Founder CEO's like Lutke are heroes. They have skin in the game. This forces them to calculate their risks. Their actions and decisions have greater weight because of this - their payday is not guaranteed, especially early on in the game.

Non-founder CEO's are rent-collectors. They have no skin in the game. Unlimited upside and no downside. They get a handsome payday no matter what.

Non-founder CEO's and the absence of skin in the game is what yields the bastardy that is modern corporatism: highly-paid people who can flail around all they want and still land on their feet.

In this case, Lutke made a bad bet, but with Shopify's success, he's at the point where the result of his bets have no impact on him. He already got his payday.

[+] HDThoreaun|2 years ago|reply
Over hiring in the face of uncertain macro conditions and consumption changes is probably the right choice. If your market expands as you believe it might you're ready to step in and grow. If it doesn't grow you can just lay people off and you're back where you started. The important thing here though is that it's hard to catch up to competitors that have lapped you but it's easy to slow down when you're ahead. If you think there's just a 10% chance that covid causes e-commerce to 10x in size it makes sense to prepare as though it will and then shrink the workforce if things go back to normal.
[+] rcme|2 years ago|reply
From a business perspective, this is great for Shopify. The labor market for software engineers has seriously softened as a result of all the layoffs. Go look at job openings and their posted salaries.

When Shopify beings hiring again, they are going to be able to hire talent at a fraction of the price.

Also, this is largely a coordinated effort from activist investors specifically targeting large tech salaries. E.g. https://www.businessinsider.com/google-layoffs-cut-jobs-exce...

There is essentially a vicious cycle targeting tech compensation. Activist investors are convincing boards that they're overpaying their tech talent. Then those boards approve layoffs. Then those layoffs further lower salaries. Rinse and repeat.

[+] kypro|2 years ago|reply
To be fair it's extremely hard to make long-term decisions when you have politicians deciding to arbitrarily lock down the economy forcing all small businesses to engage in e-commerce, and when you have a Federal Reverse which alternates between creating financial bubbles and financial crises every couple of years.

Shopify being a beneficiary of both the government mandated lockdowns and the Fed backed investment bubble really had no option but to dramatically increase headcount. Their business literally doubled from 2020-2021 due these actions.

To believe in 2021 that in 2022 the Fed would undergo the most aggressive tightening cycle in history triggering significant headwinds for both startups like Shopify and their small business customers was absurd. At the time the Fed was saying that they weren't "even thinking about thinking about raising rates" so you basically had to assume that Fed lacked all credibility.

I guess what I'm saying here is that there is a reason why so many companies got this wrong beyond incompetence. So if you don't like it you should consider redirecting your outrage.

[+] jimmytucson|2 years ago|reply
The notion that this CEO and hundreds of others made bad decisions by over-hiring is sensible, but the fact that so many made the same mistake at the same time makes me second-order think this. As cruel as it sounds, what if over-hiring was a good long term decision? What would that imply?

It would mean that _not_ hiring aggressively in a high-inflation period is harmful to business. To me, that is far more interesting to think about than CEOs making dumb mistakes and not getting punished for it because life isn't fair...

[+] Cthulhu_|2 years ago|reply
It just reiterates that on a high enough level, employees are just numbers, resources and sliders to fiddle with, often having a direct correlation with share price.
[+] andsoitis|2 years ago|reply
He is also a co-founder and owns 7% of the company.
[+] sharkweek|2 years ago|reply
A favorite quote of mine about the role of a CEO from the movie Margin Call. Tuld, the CEO of a major bank the night before the housing crisis in 08 starts to fly out of control, after one of the bank's risk analysts discovers they're holding toxic assets:

John Tuld : So, what you're telling me, is that the music is about to stop, and we're going to be left holding the biggest bag of odorous excrement ever assembled in the history of capitalism.

Peter Sullivan : Sir, I not sure that I would put it that way, but let me clarify using your analogy. What this model shows is the music, so to speak, just slowing. If the music were to stop, as you put it, then this model wouldn't even be close to that scenario. It would be considerably worse.

John Tuld : Let me tell you something, Mr. Sullivan. Do you care to know why I'm in this chair with you all? I mean, why I earn the big bucks.

Peter Sullivan : Yes.

John Tuld : I'm here for one reason and one reason alone. I'm here to guess what the music might do a week, a month, a year from now. That's it. Nothing more. And standing here tonight, I'm afraid that I don't hear - a - thing. Just... silence.

[+] clpm4j|2 years ago|reply
Also the same CEO who joined Coinbase's board last year, and has seemingly fallen down the crypto rabbit hole. Maybe he's lost a bit of focus on Shopify.
[+] 908B64B197|2 years ago|reply
According to the man himself

>>Our numbers were unhealthy, just like it is in much of the tech industry.

But that didn't prevent him from profiting from it nor from the layoffs.

To be completely honest, I've never been bullish on Shopify. To me it looked like a "mee too" play for investors that missed the boat on Amazon, Square and Stripe.

[+] tootie|2 years ago|reply
CEOs are tasked with maximizing shareholder value and he seems to have succeeded.
[+] Arubis|2 years ago|reply
“We will also keep Slack and internal email open today for everyone so we can share farewells.”

That’s drastically different. Most orgs that’ve run layoffs over the last few years have terminated access immediately, or even before informing those losing jobs.

This feels more human, and I hope it goes well for them.

[+] skizm|2 years ago|reply
Most of the tech layoffs this cycle have done the same. Meta and Google left open coms access (email and chat) for at least the one day, pulling other more sensitive access. Definitely a positive change, but if I were a big tech lawyer I'd probably still be nervous lol.
[+] 49531|2 years ago|reply
My whole team woke up removed from Slack so...
[+] fishtoaster|2 years ago|reply
Well that's certainly nice!

The last time I got laid off was from a fintech company while WFH. It went like:

8am: Mysterious all-hands appears on all our calendars

10am: All-hands happens, layoffs announced

10:45am: Meeting with my manager happens

11:00am: I'm mid-slack-message with my team trying to coordinate a quick goodbye zoom chat when my laptop is remote-wiped and all access was cut off.

I totally understand why you'd do that and don't really fault them, but it certainly was a bummer. If you can safely do otherwise, it's a really nice gesture.

[+] mabbo|2 years ago|reply
It let me exchange personal email addresses with a lot of great friends I won't get to work with anymore. I truly appreciate that Shopify did that for us.
[+] 0zemp2c|2 years ago|reply
I think the Irish Farewell is even better, just close the browser and walk away, if you really like your coworkers, you can spare them the uncomfortable conversation, and the Irish Farewell is a tiny way of polluting the culture of the thing that ejected you
[+] ben1040|2 years ago|reply
Dropbox did it this way last week as well. The employees who were laid off were removed from work-related Slack channels but they had access to social channels and DMs so they could say goodbye.
[+] ipsi|2 years ago|reply
I was laid off recently, and my now-former employer initially disabled accounts immediately, then reversed their decision and reactivated them (all while I was asleep). The first I knew that something was a bit awry was when I opened my laptop in the morning and saw I'd been logged out from Slack and removed from the GitHub org. The HR meeting invite then made it very clear what was going on and I wasn't permanently locked out until after that, a few hours later.
[+] callmeed|2 years ago|reply
We also did this when we did a layoff last month (announcement was on a wednesday and people had access to email through the week). Agree with your sentiment.
[+] hgsgm|2 years ago|reply
It's very European.
[+] WFHRenaissance|2 years ago|reply
Frankly, this sort of open-access to terminated employees is irresponsible.
[+] mabbo|2 years ago|reply
I'm impacted. And it sucks.

It sucks because I really liked the company. I liked the culture. I liked the leadership style. I liked the mission. I genuinely think that company is doing good for the world, and making money in the process.

The challenge now is that the leadership have burned a lot of trust with the employees. They repeatedly said no more layoffs were coming, but with this move they all benefitted financially quite well- the stock is up 25%.

The move deeply undermines the company culture that they worked so hard to build. I hope Tobi has a plan for how to repair that damage.

[+] otter-in-a-suit|2 years ago|reply
I was unfortunately affected by this (in the Data Organization).

Shame - Shopify is a fun place where I've learned a ton. We were just getting a cool Data product off the ground.

Well, if anybody's got a need for a Staff/Lead Data Engineer (Remote EST) with experience in Scala (+cats/fs2), Python, go who has spent the last 10+ years building Data Products on BI, then Hadoop, then GCP (+ the Apache Zoo, lately namely Kafka/Iceberg/Beam), my email is in my profile. :)

[+] nus07|2 years ago|reply
Last time I read a very reassuring and cogent letter by the CEO of Shopify about the layoffs . But at no point did the letter hint at further layoffs no less 20% which is huge. Wondering what the explanation is this time. I understand everyone has their worth and price but I fail to see how management and leadership at companies still have jobs and huge bonuses.

Reaganomics has had 35 years. Maybe we need a new vision for our society.

[+] flavius29663|2 years ago|reply
> Reaganomics has had 35 years. Maybe we need a new vision for our society.

I see you're assigning this failure to reaganomics, are you then ready to assign all the successes to reaganomics too? i.e. The US became the largest exporter of IT and software, the US corporations put a computer in every home, then in every pocket, with US online companies being 90% of the top companies in the world.

Are you going to say that this is due to reaganomics too? Or only bad things get attributed to it?

Shopify is a Canadian company, not that it matters for my question.

[+] rqtwteye|2 years ago|reply
"Maybe we need a new vision for our society"

If AI really kills as many jobs as predicted, we will definitely have to rethink society. It doesn't really make sense that a technology that improves overall productivity of society ends up making large segments of the population suffer. We need to find a way to have everybody benefit from progress and not just a few at the top.

[+] FredPret|2 years ago|reply
The CEO's job is to deliver results, not maintain full employment. Companies exist, and have always existed, to be temporary money-making enterprises.

Acting like they are civil institutions tasked with upholding the social fabric is absurd.

[+] osigurdson|2 years ago|reply
>> I fail to see how management and leadership at companies still have jobs and huge bonuses

I definitely agree in situations where the company is doing poorly. If a company has found a way to become more efficient then bosses probably do deserve bonuses.

[+] throwawaysleep|2 years ago|reply
If a CEO ever feels the need to give out a reassuring letter, you know that layoffs and wage freezes are on the way.

Management doesn't care about you, so anything that is about your comfort and well being is a scam.

[+] somedude895|2 years ago|reply
> Reaganomics has had 35 years. Maybe we need a new vision for our society.

Because some highly paid people lost their jobs we need a new vision for society? Sure, it sucks to be laid off but you talk as if there's mass unemployment and droves of people suddenly living in squalor. Don't be so dramatic.

[+] neom|2 years ago|reply
Does anyone have a sense of how bad things really are for the US economy and what the next 12/18 months are going to look like? Seems like every day all I see is doom and gloom, I've not seen a bright spot in quite some time... it's becoming increasingly difficult for me to get a sense of where things are. People keep saying things are going to get worse, I keep reading things are going to get worse, friends are literally committing suicide. Feels like twilight zone.
[+] mabbo|2 years ago|reply
I was impacted. I still will speak highly of the company.

Good people. Very few assholes. The mission feels good, like it's not a net negative on the planet. Lot of churn internally, but often handled in a positive way.

I'm fortunate that I've got a decent nest egg set aside, and I can afford to spend the rest of the summer just being with my wife and daughter. It sucks that it's happened but I'm not worried about the future (yet).

[+] brotoss|2 years ago|reply
Referring to "main quests" and "side quests" in a mass layoff notice is extremely cringeworthy
[+] SilverBirch|2 years ago|reply
Once again a company that prides itself on being a follower rather than a leader. It drives me insane

>Our numbers were unhealthy, just like it is in much of the tech industry.

Ok, can we consider this in your compensation discussions this year? That you mindlessly followed the crowd and left your company structurally weak? Or do we think you're going to shoot for record compensation this year?

[+] bonney_io|2 years ago|reply
This all sucks, and I hate that CEOs can continue to lie about layoffs, hire uncontrollably, then completely 180 and lay tons of folks off.

That said: where do I sign up for 16 weeks of severance pay?

[+] MAGZine|2 years ago|reply
Well yeah, cutting workforce seems like it only has upside to these companies. Expenses go down, profit margin and share price go up.

What're the workers gonna do? Protest? Strike? Hah. No, the remaining employees will pick up the extra responsibility and thank the employer for continuing to employ them.

[+] allanmacgregor|2 years ago|reply
This is not surprising Shopify has had an identity crisis and lack of focus for years now. To name a few:

- Alienating marketplace partners by trying to absorb their functionality - Trying to break into the logistics space - Failing to develop and make headway into the Enterprise space.

Shopify needs a reality check and new leadership if they want to continue being relevant

[+] josephd79|2 years ago|reply
They forgot to mention that the C-level exec still get their bonuses.
[+] rpsw|2 years ago|reply
> But now we are at the dawn of the AI era and the new capabilities that are unlocked by that are unprecedented. Shopify has the privilege of being amongst the companies with the best chances of using AI to help our customers. A copilot for entrepreneurship is now possible. Our main quest demands from us to build the best thing that is now possible, and that has just changed entirely.

Most recent layoffs have been framed around needing to focus the company due to economic and market headwinds. This reads like AI has transformed the mission.

What does "A copilot for entrepreneurship is now possible" mean here?

[+] gurchik|2 years ago|reply
> We legally need the work laptop back, but we’ll help pay for a new one to replace it.

What law? I’m not criticizing Spotify at all for this decision, I’m just genuinely curious. A few other companies recently are giving away the laptops so I’m wondering what is different here.