[_vbnz]

American engineers are lucky to earn enough to be able to save up and do stuff like this, like on $200k you can save enough to really try a start-up for a year or two.

Whereas in Europe we're lucky to get $80k in the same jobs, and then the state steals half of that :/

[iancmceachern]

We also have to pay a lot more out of pocket for basic services like healthcare,, transportation, childcare, etc.

[boc]

You’re paying for healthcare at a tech company? Usually your company provides this as a benefit. Same for commuter subsidies.

[ActorNightly]

In EU, you also pay for healthcare and transport, just indirectly in the form of taxes, which is why tax rates are much higher.

There is a cross over point for salary in US where below that, it becomes advantageous to live in EU, but tech salaries are well above this point.

[marklubi]

The wonderful part of this is that you get the choice.

Choose where you live, who you have for healthcare, who you use for childcare/schooling.

We have the opportunity to make that choice instead of having a bureaucracy making those choices for us.

[ant6n]

In France, apparently you can go on unemployment for 2, up to 3 years to start a startup. With up to 80% pay.

In Germany you can get 6 months of unemployment insurance when starting a startup out of unemployment. Or get 6 months paid when starting a startup out of Uni. Then you could get various public funding opportunities like a startup bonus (for example 50K public funding for 50K private investment in an innovative company in Berlin).

[RestlessMind]

> In France, apparently you can go on unemployment for 2, up to 3 years to start a startup. With up to 80% pay.

Then why does France have such a low rate of new business formation (5.3/1000 people) - https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/IC.BUS.NDNS.ZS?most_rec...

Or as another indicator, number of tech startups per Million is 234 for the US, while only 24 for France - https://www.startupranking.com/countries

[p0nce]

Amazingly I did that for 3.5 years at 70% pay, I think the law changed after that. It is the biggest "incubator" in the country.

[bujak300]

Do you possibly have more specific information about france? I would love to know more

[iancmceachern]

I was told they they just stopped this policy

[asnyder]

Not to mention that in Germany many University students not only get free schooling, but also housing AND a monthly stipend. Essentially UBI for students!

[erulabs]

Just to add a non-snarky reply: I agree, we are lucky, but I fear (especially based on the replies to your statement), the majority of American engineers would prefer things to be more like they are in Europe.

"There are dozens of us!" that are aware of how lucky we are!

[908B64B197]

Is it really luck?

Where's the European phone, the European OS. European Cloud? ChatGPT?

American engineers and companies provide the bulk of tech's value added.

> Whereas in Europe we're lucky to get $80k in the same jobs, and then the state steals half of that :/

Are those really the same jobs?

[UncleMeat]

Europeans work at all of these companies.

[j0hnyl]

State steals half of ours here in the USA too if you live in a high cost of living city, which many well paid devs do.

[tristan957]

I live in a high cost of living city. Texas has no capital gains tax, no income tax, and I don't own a property (obviously I see this through higher rent at $1450 for a 1x1. I pay the 8.25% sales tax and my highest income tax bracket is 23%. I am nowhere near 50%.

[groby_b]

On the flipside, we have no health insurance when we're laid off, and even getting the sniffles costs a fortune. As for layoffs, last I checked Europe has meaningful worker protections. Neither do we get six weeks of vacation over here. Parental leave (unless you're FAANG) is iffy. Unless you happen to conform to a demographic shape, you'll get treated pretty shittily by everybody, including the state.

But if you like living without a net in exchange for high pay, by all means, come over here.

[busterarm]

New York and California steal (at least) half too.

At least in Europe you get something for your taxes (okay, except maybe Germany).

[cjdoc29]

Can you expand on the "at least half" part?

On an income of $200k in California, for example, your tax rate is something like 8% (marginal). If you total it up with federal taxes, it's something like a 27% tax rate.

[dang]

Please don't post flamebait to HN or take threads further into flamewar. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.

"Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

[nobody995765]

That's a bunch of stereotyping. I work in the telecom industry and live in a place without bay area or Seattle type cost of living. I get 15-days caregiver leave, 12 weeks paternity leave and 20 days of vacation. A sr sw engineer where I am at will get about $175k with bonus. A staff engineer will make about $300k with RSU. It's not Big Tech but definitely better than what Europe has. Again not being in the bay area helps. I have a very flexible work schedule and a pretty awesome work life balance.

Don't go by what the media portrays. Your comment makes it sound like Tech workers can never take vacation or have kids. It couldn't be furthest from the truth.

[NeverFade]

In 2022, a 5-year peak year, 313 people in the entire US died from active shooters: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/active-shooters-fbi-report-2022...

That's out of 330 million total population.

[pb7]

Come on over to Europe. Don't forget your stabproof vest, your riot gear, and blankets because we have no heating.