Irrespective of the reason, this really makes me sad. Vice had made some of the most incredible content and dared to go places others simply wouldn't.
As a Pakistani, I can tell you it's very rare to see media go there. Even movies that are supposed to be set in Pakistan (Zero Dark Thirty, A Mighty Heart, etc) are filmed next door in India. And other than maybe Al-Jazeera, I rarely see international media reporting from on the ground.
Vice not only went to Pakistan, but they did at least three episodes I can recall from there. And they covered some pretty important things, such as the disfunction that resulted in Pakistan being one of the last countries to still have polio.
I speak of Pakistan as one example because I know how little our stories are represented in mainstream media, but there are many other examples where Vice seemed to be the only ones willing to go on the ground. Other examples include North Korea, Haiti, and Syria. I'll never forget watching Isobel Yeung courageously reporting in Syria while bombs literally could be heard exploding around her.
Can you explain what TF is going on with Imran Khan? Everyone I see talking about it is either American or Indian and I'm sure they're wrong about basically every detail.
I am not Pakistani but I was always surprised at the lack of attention too. Pakistan is a giant country with a ton of people and some pretty insane geography (mountains I mean) and yet there is not much media made in general about it.
It wouldn't be beneath VICE to use sound editing to put bomb sounds into takes that didn't have them there to begin with. They quite literally have no journalism code of ethics.
I used to read Vice when I wanted to know the details the rest of the media wouldn’t report on. The last time I read it was a few months ago. I was curious about the real facts around a certain incident. Instead of a unique perspective, I found the exact same lazy story as I saw on every other website. Plus a large helping of the boring divisive “culture war” crap that is so popular now - complete with actual naked quote mining of those the author disagreed with. How far Vice has fallen.
I used to love vice. They had some of the most engaging content covering things I'd never see. But then it all started to unravel when the platform mostly turned into cringey hipster New Yorkers telling me about their preferred way to consume weed 10 times a day.
yeah, if you think this is what they have been doing for the past few years, then you haven't really bothered to check out their work. They have been consistently doing some amazing international reporting that none of the mainstream media channels were/are interested in.
Well this is what happens when you appeal to the 'Cringey hipster New Yorkers' and alienate your old viewership of showing underground or under-reported investigative journalism before 2012.
Now it seems like the readers have punished Vice when they went down that route in 2012 and all that got them was into bankruptcy much faster than they tried to predict Twitter's collapse.
Given that they chose to do that to themselves, nothing of value was lost. Henceforth:
Did Vice kill itself, or was it murdered? I haven't paid a lot of attention, but it seems like Vice's content started going down hill right after they got into bed with Disney and Murdoch.
Disney... and Vice... Welcome to 2015!
I suppose the YouTube adpocalypse followed shortly after, too, demonetising political content. So, a perfect storm. No more money from political content, suddenly, and now your biggest shareholders, Disney and Murdoch, demand change to keep up. Shame that.
There's a rhyme that ends with "go broke"... I have seen a number of rather toxic Vice articles in the past few years, I wonder how profitable that turned out to be? I have a vague memory of them being edgy and interesting, but that's a long time ago.
Still, I'm sure I only saw fragments of their total body of work so it might be a skewed perception. My sympathies for those affected, these are tough times we are entering.
Alot of media companies changed their standards and ethics in 2016 when the "wrong person" won an election they determined it was their job to ensure that "never happens again"
I'm a NYT subscriber, but a headline from them calling another (younger) news source a "decayed digital colossus" feels a bit rock-glass-house-y.
That being said, my personal opinion of them is pretty similar. I used to love Vice; it felt like they really were the news outlet that was telling a different story from the rest of media. Not a different perspective on the same story, a totally different story, and hard journalism at that. Could just be me, but it hasn't felt that way for years now.
Your observation reminds me of a fun 2010 interaction between Vice and NYT illustrating some tension then between the two outlets that is featured in the documentary Page One: Inside the New York Times. (David Carr and Shane Smith would later laugh together about the exchange during a panel at Vanity Fair's New Establishment Summit in 2014.) Excerpt: https://youtu.be/iLmkec_4Rfo Full: https://hoopladigital.com/title/11049551
Vice had one of my favorite pieces of internet content ever, maybe this is a business lesson about "stick to the knitting" or something... "stick to the pointy Mexican boots"
Publications are the Journalists that work there, and the culture that they create. If this is the end of Vice as a platform, it's not the end of that culture or the careers of the people that built it. Those journalists will take that culture of investigative, deep and sometimes immersive (gonzo?) journalism elsewhere.
Here in the UK we saw it with Buzzfeed News UK, when is was shut down in 2020 the journalists dispersed into other news organisations, some that they had worked with before (they had collaborated with C4 and BBC News on investigations), and have continued their important investigative work. I believe we will see the same with both Vice and Buzzfeed News (US).
Some will cheer its downfall, but there is an important place for all styles of journalism from all political leanings.
I absolutely loved the deep investigation side of vice.
They lost me at the 10th iteration of "We smoked weed of of X" and some other low effort content about 4 or 5 years ago.
"Those journalists will take that culture of investigative, deep and sometimes immersive (gonzo?) journalism elsewhere."
I hope you are correct. I do worry though if this might require funding and general corporate buy-in these journalists might not get elsewhere. I also worry about their arguments carrying less weight in other organizations because "we did this at Vice" is now tainted. If Vice had been a massive success their suggestions would have gotten extra weight instead of now causing caution.
Vice and HBO had some good contents in early days. They reported on stuff mass media _failed_ to report on especially following the GFC when America was going through some tough times.
The most memorable was David Choe reporting on scrap metal scavenging in rust belt cities. That one,
for some reason, hit me really hard.
I'm not sure why you think HBO has gone downhill -- I wouldn't compare vice and HBO. One was supposed to be a news organization the other entertainment.
HBO is still banging out great TV shows. Last of Us is the most recent that comes to mind.
I ran across their North Korea report when it was posted 11 years ago and was an instant fan. Shane was compelling and of course the topic was fascinating. Very few people had gotten in there and brought film out like that before, that I had seen at least. Very eye opening
Good retrospective on the inflection point for this cohort of digital media in the generally excellent Odd Lots podcast recently (Search “End of an Era for Digital Media).
Their conclusion on Vice was that it was never in the same league as BuzzFeed or similar in terms of traffic, but had one of the most pure and influential brands in the space.
I remember when Vice covered Russia's invasion of Crimea. It was phenomenal on-the-ground coverage at a time when all we got otherwise were CNN BS pros, and a precursor to a lot of new takes on war coverage. I remember "Huang's World", a jubilant food show that also revealed Eddie Huang's authentic, unfiltered Chinese American voice, who'd go on to success as Fresh off the boat author. Maybe this stuff was too easy to copy or too expensive, but Vice doesn't stand apart as much anymore.
And this is exactly why a sizeable chunk of the world - even here on HN - is cheering their demise. Being different is definitely not generally acceptable.
VICE seemed to make sense at a given time + place + context:
* Gonzo journalism: "On my way to North Korea I'm gonna stop by my auntie where over lunch she'd beg me not to go"
* Peak hipster: pre-pandemic hyper-urbanised young white collar people who started making money
* Excitement about Web 2.0 weirdness and the over-sharing culture
all of the above created a compelling package back then, but don't seem to scale to a "global media empire" Shane Smith wanted to make, one that would topple the incumbents.
interesting how certain industries were never "disrupted" by startups, no matter the amount of hype that was generated in the mid-2010s [1]; banking is a major example (no startup bank overthrew JPMC) but the same seems to apply to legacy media.
[1] Shane Smith (VICE founder) quote about Murdoch during an FT interview:
"I have Gen Y, I have social [media], I have online video. You have none of that. I have the future, you have the past."
https://www.ft.com/content/61c51d64-4a9c-11e2-968a-00144feab...
Like 10 years ago Vice bought the building that housed my favorite venue in Williamsburg, Glasslands, and then proceeded to do basically nothing with it. So I'll always hold that against them/the VCs who funded them.
They were really good for drugs coverage, and I mean that beyond the "New York Hipster smoking weed 100 times a day" comment someone else made here.
Max Daly's probably the best drug reporter out there, and was the main reason I kept tuned in for so long. Was really the last bastion of their decent content.
As a person from Ukraine, I love Vice for their coverage of Russia-Ukraine conflict at 2014. But their last interview with a Russian children’s commissioner felt like its not Vice anymore. Seems like they been trying to provide an explanation on why russia stealing children's from Ukraine. So i'm not sure what do I think about vice at this moment. Maybe its time to go
That's what you got from that interview? I thought they were very neutral, and even asked some hard questions. To do the interview in the first place was a huge risk... To dig in and smear dirt in Russia's face would have been suicidal.
[+] [-] xerxesaa|2 years ago|reply
As a Pakistani, I can tell you it's very rare to see media go there. Even movies that are supposed to be set in Pakistan (Zero Dark Thirty, A Mighty Heart, etc) are filmed next door in India. And other than maybe Al-Jazeera, I rarely see international media reporting from on the ground.
Vice not only went to Pakistan, but they did at least three episodes I can recall from there. And they covered some pretty important things, such as the disfunction that resulted in Pakistan being one of the last countries to still have polio.
I speak of Pakistan as one example because I know how little our stories are represented in mainstream media, but there are many other examples where Vice seemed to be the only ones willing to go on the ground. Other examples include North Korea, Haiti, and Syria. I'll never forget watching Isobel Yeung courageously reporting in Syria while bombs literally could be heard exploding around her.
[+] [-] local_crmdgeon|2 years ago|reply
It's good what happened? It's bad? He's in jail?
[+] [-] Brulaap|2 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] rvz|2 years ago|reply
Now it seems like the readers have punished Vice when they went down that route in 2012 and all that got them was into bankruptcy much faster than they tried to predict Twitter's collapse.
Given that they chose to do that to themselves, nothing of value was lost. Henceforth:
Good riddance.
[+] [-] irthomasthomas|2 years ago|reply
Disney... and Vice... Welcome to 2015!
I suppose the YouTube adpocalypse followed shortly after, too, demonetising political content. So, a perfect storm. No more money from political content, suddenly, and now your biggest shareholders, Disney and Murdoch, demand change to keep up. Shame that.
[+] [-] sundvor|2 years ago|reply
Still, I'm sure I only saw fragments of their total body of work so it might be a skewed perception. My sympathies for those affected, these are tough times we are entering.
[+] [-] phpisthebest|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Melatonic|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] the-printer|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mmcclure|2 years ago|reply
That being said, my personal opinion of them is pretty similar. I used to love Vice; it felt like they really were the news outlet that was telling a different story from the rest of media. Not a different perspective on the same story, a totally different story, and hard journalism at that. Could just be me, but it hasn't felt that way for years now.
[+] [-] keane|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rc_mob|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fsckboy|2 years ago|reply
http://web.archive.org/web/20230128213354/https://www.vice.c...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=veQkt4tS0Tc
[+] [-] samwillis|2 years ago|reply
Here in the UK we saw it with Buzzfeed News UK, when is was shut down in 2020 the journalists dispersed into other news organisations, some that they had worked with before (they had collaborated with C4 and BBC News on investigations), and have continued their important investigative work. I believe we will see the same with both Vice and Buzzfeed News (US).
Some will cheer its downfall, but there is an important place for all styles of journalism from all political leanings.
[+] [-] mixermachine|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ajmurmann|2 years ago|reply
I hope you are correct. I do worry though if this might require funding and general corporate buy-in these journalists might not get elsewhere. I also worry about their arguments carrying less weight in other organizations because "we did this at Vice" is now tainted. If Vice had been a massive success their suggestions would have gotten extra weight instead of now causing caution.
[+] [-] Dma54rhs|2 years ago|reply
I'm sure tabloids and yellow rags are always looking for cheap writers, plenty of them still exist.
[+] [-] lvl102|2 years ago|reply
The most memorable was David Choe reporting on scrap metal scavenging in rust belt cities. That one, for some reason, hit me really hard.
[+] [-] s_dev|2 years ago|reply
HBO is still banging out great TV shows. Last of Us is the most recent that comes to mind.
[+] [-] MobileVet|2 years ago|reply
https://youtu.be/24R8JObNNQ4
[+] [-] unknown|2 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] rorads|2 years ago|reply
Their conclusion on Vice was that it was never in the same league as BuzzFeed or similar in terms of traffic, but had one of the most pure and influential brands in the space.
[+] [-] yafbum|2 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] lethologica|2 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] neurobama|2 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] yannis7|2 years ago|reply
all of the above created a compelling package back then, but don't seem to scale to a "global media empire" Shane Smith wanted to make, one that would topple the incumbents.
[+] [-] neom|2 years ago|reply
Golf, Booze & Guns: Inside Boomer Paradise -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jp0nqJ1yrrg
Inside the Wellness Festival for Millionaires -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BbNvim11fI
Scams, Zealots, and Jet Skis: Life Inside the Crypto Scene -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9hXfBo8Abo
The Untouchable Chaebols of South Korea -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jFZge6V_is
"Be A Man”: Modernists and Traditionalists Debate Masculinity -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nE3EQEBzc0
Mexico's Most Wanted Drug Kingpin -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RZoGOc3VCs
Tantra Island: The Search for Sexual Paradise -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UsWj15AFRs
Hamiltons Pharmacopeia -- https://www.vicetv.com/en_us/show/hamiltons-pharmacopeia
[+] [-] yannis7|2 years ago|reply
[1] Shane Smith (VICE founder) quote about Murdoch during an FT interview: "I have Gen Y, I have social [media], I have online video. You have none of that. I have the future, you have the past." https://www.ft.com/content/61c51d64-4a9c-11e2-968a-00144feab...
[+] [-] setgree|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] disantlor|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] specproc|2 years ago|reply
Max Daly's probably the best drug reporter out there, and was the main reason I kept tuned in for so long. Was really the last bastion of their decent content.
[+] [-] FireBy2024|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thewinnie|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] CameronNemo|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bertman|2 years ago|reply
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35780517