Its a pity that a decade and more of hyperactivity, speculation and noise in cryptofinance will not leave much to show for it but the smoldering ruins of bizarre house-of-cards.
We have financial systems that are certifiably broken, there are countless ideas about how to fix them, the digital era makes new ideas easy to explore and everybody would objectively be better off with some genuine innovation
yet all we've got is this manic obsession spawned by bitcoin that has no economic objective whatsoever.
If that is "efficient allocation of capital" one wonders what inefficiency looks like.
The irony is that Bitcoin was created in direct response to the perceived shortcomings of the traditional financial system (see the message in the genesis block), but since then the traditional financial system has cleaned itself up enormously, while cryptocurrency has had the exact opposite trajectory and is now nothing more than a magnet for actual or latent fraudsters.
> Its a pity that a decade and more of hypeactivity, speculation and noise in cryptofinance will not leave much to show for it but the smoldering ruins of bizzare house-of-cards.
Weirdly, there's still plenty of speculation in this space, and still plenty of people getting rich off of it. Look at the price of bitcoin for example, it's rebounded substantially since the FTX collapse. People have become millionaires from this nonsense and a great many people seem to feel like there's still a lot of value.
I just don't understand it at all at this point. I understand how people would have been duped by the scams before all of the prominent failures, but why are people still willing to trade crypto for so much actual money?
Sitting on the sidelines, It makes us feel superior to criticise and derive intellectual pleasure out of that but I haven't seen a lot of people who actually step into the ring and try to fix what's broken. I was one of them.
We can all agree that the current traditional and digital finance systems are broken but I don't see any solutions being provided as an alternative.
In every industry which involves innovation, there will be speculation and definitely people who like to profit off that which results in ponzi schemes but in the end, there are some genuinely hard working people who truly believe in the mission they signed up for 10 years ago and still continue to work. I would suggest you to take a look around and dig deeper into some of the blockchain projects and you will understand how much blood, sweat and bits have been poured into this.
It's difficult to claim that any system is 'certifiably broken' until you can actually point to an actual effective real-world implementation of a 'better system' (pareto or otherwise), no?
It's a great use case for economics textbooks describing human-market behavior with modern technologies to help add fuel to the fire. It will replace tulip mania for a more recent experience. However the cost of that use-case was way to expensive for its net benefit.
It's curious to make this connection between lack of innovation in the financial system and bitcoin. Maybe there's no innovation in the financial system because that system lacks competitors? Or because there's no way to try things out? Bitcoin should help either way. There's some movement towards Fed bank accounts, and I expect Bitcoin to help there — if there's a serious threat of Bitcoin replacing the US dollar, then maybe the interests of banks will seem less important.
The financialization of the economy is downstream from central bank policy.
You cannot divorce the existing financial system from cryptocurrency. Rampant speculation and bubble mania isn't happening in a vacuum. Rather, it is a symptom of easy money and cheap credit. When regulators remove barriers to a natural rate of credit by no longer centrally planning interest rates, speculative mania will be naturally disincentivized.
I hate scammers in the crypto space as much as anyone else. And it feels good at some level to see them getting flushed out in the current environment. Having said that
> cryptofinance will not leave much to show for it
I completely disagree with this. I can confidently bet that Bitcoin's price will cross 50K USD in the next 5 years, and 100K in the next 10 years. I am personally putting my money where my mouth is.
> We have financial systems that are certifiably broken, there are countless ideas about how to fix them
You can trace back almost everything that is broken in financial systems to government regulations. It's not a technical problem. The only technical solution is to build a decentralized system that is difficult to regulate (aka Bitcoin). Its "economic objective" is to replace those traditional systems.
Nothing to see here. This is a reputed and transparent financial institution. The government is just jealous of having competition.../s
Binance has no known headquarters or transparent books. If you keep money there and you lose it, it's your fault. The same applies to Tether. You're only betting on trust instead of regulations, which never bodes well in the long run.
As a side note, Binance was founded in 2017 and grew to process hundreds of billions of dollars in transactions in a few years. In a hypothetical world as the CEO of such company, how would I even handle such growth without my mind exploding?
Ain't it funny how a system supposedly designed to prevent a need to trust anyone only functions to it's current barely functional level if you trust a giant, centralized, opaque organization that has on the public record lied in the past about pretty serious things?
I work on the theory that any crypto firm is a gang of thieves run by charlatans.
However, the regulated banks also appear to be gangs of thieves run by charlatans. Except everyone is forced to signal, financially, that they have confidence in firms when they turn out to be insolvent. And the people involved with crypto can't be forced to bail out Binance unless they trust them with their funds. I have a lot more faith in the value of my Monero than the USD - which I say for rhetorical effect since I don't trust the USD enough to own any.
Silicon Valley Bank has detoothed a lot of criticism of the crypto industry, and it hasn't even been the biggest collapse this year. Then there is the inflation problem that that fiat currencies have which is on display right now.
> "the term ‘deposit’ is a communication term, it’s not an indication of the technical treatment of the funds"
That seems like a pretty terrible answer from binance. It's like they are saying, "We're not commingling customer funds and company revenue! We're defrauding our customers by misrepresenting purchases as deposits!"
Reading these comments on this radical anti-crypto forum makes me always think of "the rumours of [Bitcoin's] death have been greatly exaggerated."
While I don't have a Twitter profile with laser eyes just yet, I enjoy seeing what I think is a technological and political game changer just chugging along, uncaring of scams, maxis, haters, governments, volatility.
I am surprised that few can notice how impressive it is for a currency with limited usability and extreme volatility to still be worth something, improving and growing. Because at one point, all the concerns one has about it will have been solved, and, as economists love to say, good money tends to drive out bad money. The Internet is still in need of its digital cash.
So I enjoy seeing all the Ponzi schemers, con artists and grifters get their comeuppance, but would also love to see the crypto-Luddites inhabiting this forum to be proven wrong eventually. Because Bitcoin doesn't care, Bitcoin still goes brrr.
What i find especially intriguing is the certainty some people on this forum have of crypto going to zero. The same certainty they had 2, 5 and 10 years ago. Yet here we are. At what stage do they start questioning the strength of their certainty.
Agree! It's a tiring situation. On the one hand you have the idealists who know bitcoin is going to radicalize everything because "the Internet needs it."
On the other you have the "radical anti-crypto(currency) ludites" who is anyone on this forum who holds a different opinion.
Nope. Banks are just the devil you know, so they get more of a free pass. You're desensitised to banks, but sensitive to anything else that may end up being "just as bad" as the banks.
Banks already exist, don't inflict more similar behaviour on us! Please!
The big risk for Binance is AML. If they’re violating U.S. sanctions, they’re liable to having their funds frozen and ability to access dollars in blocked.
> Binance’s website told customers their dollar transfers were “deposits” that would be “credited” to their trading accounts in the form of BUSD. Customers were told they could “withdraw” their deposits as dollars. These representations created the expectation that clients’ funds would be safeguarded in the same way as traditional cash deposits, the former regulators said.
So this makes sense to me in that users buy a deposit dollars to buy a shitcoin, but the deposit and purchase are a single operation. If I buy BUSD and then I want to withdrawn, I need to sell my BUSD back to Binance, and it it's value has drifted down, then I will get less dollars. How is that commingling and how is there ab expectation of safeguarding deposits?
Instead, simply require that if any customer funds and corporate funds are in the same account, then customers have priority in any liquidation of the contents of that account.
Then, companies have an incentive to separate their funds, but don't need to.
The content in article doesn't even satisfy the headline/title. The quotes in the article specifically state what the accounts are for but the author hand-waves on what "could" be if many hypotheticals are reality. Do better Reuters.
Most crypto grifters have cashed out, moved on to other projects, and are keen for people to forget that chapter.
There is still a monumental amount of notional markups that need to be erased - this is not a real market and there is no real price discovery. The real $ have been round tripped many times over, I don't think there's a single "stablecoin" out there that's worth any constant amount.
Yeah I'm inclined to agree. They shouldn't have done it, but this seems to be a case sloppiness rather than malice, and nothing actually bad seems to have came of it from my cursory reading. Just a bunch of playing up what could have happened.
I'll say no, but only because cryptocurrency is a single toddler to traditional finance's group of cigar smoking, sociopathic men with the scars to prove they've learnt through experience how far they can stray from legal boundaries before too much attention is brought.
[+] [-] nologic01|2 years ago|reply
We have financial systems that are certifiably broken, there are countless ideas about how to fix them, the digital era makes new ideas easy to explore and everybody would objectively be better off with some genuine innovation
yet all we've got is this manic obsession spawned by bitcoin that has no economic objective whatsoever.
If that is "efficient allocation of capital" one wonders what inefficiency looks like.
[+] [-] astoor|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] JeremyNT|2 years ago|reply
Weirdly, there's still plenty of speculation in this space, and still plenty of people getting rich off of it. Look at the price of bitcoin for example, it's rebounded substantially since the FTX collapse. People have become millionaires from this nonsense and a great many people seem to feel like there's still a lot of value.
I just don't understand it at all at this point. I understand how people would have been duped by the scams before all of the prominent failures, but why are people still willing to trade crypto for so much actual money?
[+] [-] rohith2506|2 years ago|reply
We can all agree that the current traditional and digital finance systems are broken but I don't see any solutions being provided as an alternative.
In every industry which involves innovation, there will be speculation and definitely people who like to profit off that which results in ponzi schemes but in the end, there are some genuinely hard working people who truly believe in the mission they signed up for 10 years ago and still continue to work. I would suggest you to take a look around and dig deeper into some of the blockchain projects and you will understand how much blood, sweat and bits have been poured into this.
[+] [-] Tyrek|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] boringg|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] amadeuspagel|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aww_dang|2 years ago|reply
You cannot divorce the existing financial system from cryptocurrency. Rampant speculation and bubble mania isn't happening in a vacuum. Rather, it is a symptom of easy money and cheap credit. When regulators remove barriers to a natural rate of credit by no longer centrally planning interest rates, speculative mania will be naturally disincentivized.
[+] [-] RestlessMind|2 years ago|reply
> cryptofinance will not leave much to show for it
I completely disagree with this. I can confidently bet that Bitcoin's price will cross 50K USD in the next 5 years, and 100K in the next 10 years. I am personally putting my money where my mouth is.
[+] [-] unknown|2 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] DANmode|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] olalonde|2 years ago|reply
You can trace back almost everything that is broken in financial systems to government regulations. It's not a technical problem. The only technical solution is to build a decentralized system that is difficult to regulate (aka Bitcoin). Its "economic objective" is to replace those traditional systems.
[+] [-] boeingUH60|2 years ago|reply
Binance has no known headquarters or transparent books. If you keep money there and you lose it, it's your fault. The same applies to Tether. You're only betting on trust instead of regulations, which never bodes well in the long run.
As a side note, Binance was founded in 2017 and grew to process hundreds of billions of dollars in transactions in a few years. In a hypothetical world as the CEO of such company, how would I even handle such growth without my mind exploding?
[+] [-] rchaud|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mrguyorama|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nailer|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] roenxi|2 years ago|reply
However, the regulated banks also appear to be gangs of thieves run by charlatans. Except everyone is forced to signal, financially, that they have confidence in firms when they turn out to be insolvent. And the people involved with crypto can't be forced to bail out Binance unless they trust them with their funds. I have a lot more faith in the value of my Monero than the USD - which I say for rhetorical effect since I don't trust the USD enough to own any.
Silicon Valley Bank has detoothed a lot of criticism of the crypto industry, and it hasn't even been the biggest collapse this year. Then there is the inflation problem that that fiat currencies have which is on display right now.
[+] [-] jmull|2 years ago|reply
That seems like a pretty terrible answer from binance. It's like they are saying, "We're not commingling customer funds and company revenue! We're defrauding our customers by misrepresenting purchases as deposits!"
[+] [-] sph|2 years ago|reply
While I don't have a Twitter profile with laser eyes just yet, I enjoy seeing what I think is a technological and political game changer just chugging along, uncaring of scams, maxis, haters, governments, volatility.
I am surprised that few can notice how impressive it is for a currency with limited usability and extreme volatility to still be worth something, improving and growing. Because at one point, all the concerns one has about it will have been solved, and, as economists love to say, good money tends to drive out bad money. The Internet is still in need of its digital cash.
So I enjoy seeing all the Ponzi schemers, con artists and grifters get their comeuppance, but would also love to see the crypto-Luddites inhabiting this forum to be proven wrong eventually. Because Bitcoin doesn't care, Bitcoin still goes brrr.
[+] [-] cs702|2 years ago|reply
Actually, it's the other way around: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham's_law
But otherwise, I agree: rumors of Bitcoin's death have been greatly exaggerated.
See https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoin-obituaries/
[+] [-] dylkil|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|2 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] fdsadfsaklj|2 years ago|reply
On the other you have the "radical anti-crypto(currency) ludites" who is anyone on this forum who holds a different opinion.
[+] [-] robin_reala|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] smoovb|2 years ago|reply
Guess it is fortunate for them they are not a US company governed by U.S. financial rules.
[+] [-] JAlexoid|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jqpabc123|2 years ago|reply
There is no accountability or recourse of any kind in cryptoland. You and your money are totally at the mercy and trust of the exchanges.
[+] [-] radiox_eth|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] HissingMachine|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] brookst|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] BLKNSLVR|2 years ago|reply
Banks already exist, don't inflict more similar behaviour on us! Please!
[+] [-] JumpCrisscross|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] figassis|2 years ago|reply
So this makes sense to me in that users buy a deposit dollars to buy a shitcoin, but the deposit and purchase are a single operation. If I buy BUSD and then I want to withdrawn, I need to sell my BUSD back to Binance, and it it's value has drifted down, then I will get less dollars. How is that commingling and how is there ab expectation of safeguarding deposits?
[+] [-] londons_explore|2 years ago|reply
Instead, simply require that if any customer funds and corporate funds are in the same account, then customers have priority in any liquidation of the contents of that account.
Then, companies have an incentive to separate their funds, but don't need to.
[+] [-] teknopurge|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] londons_explore|2 years ago|reply
So why do it? The only benefit appears to be that you don't need to do precise/accurate accounting and it's easier to hide fraud.
[+] [-] sub7|2 years ago|reply
There is still a monumental amount of notional markups that need to be erased - this is not a real market and there is no real price discovery. The real $ have been round tripped many times over, I don't think there's a single "stablecoin" out there that's worth any constant amount.
[+] [-] asin|2 years ago|reply
I bet US gov will go after binance/coinbase at some point this/next year
[+] [-] worksonmine|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fakedang|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] djbusby|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 3j0hn|2 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] charcircuit|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] im3w1l|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aww_dang|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] BLKNSLVR|2 years ago|reply