ITT: the effects of conservative propaganda, which conflates "natural" with "necessary, unavoidable, and acceptable," particularly in matters of sexual instinct
The foundation of human society is subjugating (evolved animal) instinct, to evolved cultural expectations and behavioral norms.
It is fundamental in functional societies that instinct is not "denied," it is recognized as exactly that thing which society erects constructs and behavioral expectations around to manage.
Instinct may in most cases be unavoidable and inevitable.
Healthy participation in a healthy society means asserting will and cultivating habits which correct for, guard against, and render unproblematic, these things.
NB I say "propaganda" because there is a relentless subtext (now, often overtly stated and championed, especially among shills for toxic masculinity) that "men are unable to control themselves, and it is not just inappropriate but immoral to expect them to." Ask any seventh grade boy you know about Tate and his ilk... then educate and push back.
At one company I worked at, most of our tech/finance staff was male. When we interviewed for a junior data science position, we had one female candidate who many would consider to be very attractive. Most or all of the other interviewees were male.
That became a matter of some consideration, because there were arguments that she would be too disruptive within the office because of her age, appearance, and gender.
What's fascinating is that the "right" answer was not clear here. Should we consider those factors, effectively making her personal characteristics a negative, or should we continue with the knowledge that she would likely get too much attention (some of which she might find uncomfortable)?
In the end, we chose a male candidate who seemed to be a better fit based on skills and academic focus. But had it been an equal match based on background alone, I think we still would have chosen the man.
FWIW, I was providing only analysis of the candidates based on their in-person interview performance primarily related to general problem solving, so I did not affect the selection based on those personal factors.
> What's fascinating is that the "right" answer was not clear here.
I think you've misidentified the problem. The issue has nothing to do with the applicant, and everything to do with a team culture that would find it 'disruptive' to have a member who was young/female/attractive.
The right answer is to work on fixing that culture.
I don’t think it’s right for the hiring team to decide if an individual will “get too much attention”.
IME, women are all too familiar with the challenges of working in a male-dominated workplace, but ultimately just want to pursue a career they enjoy. The “right” decision is to respect that drive and not to infantilize them by making decisions on their behalf.
Well, in my company it worked different way. Being female, even average looking one was an instant advantage (with the exception for overweight/obese ones). Seven times of ten female would be hired over equally qualified male (which doesn't mean our company is predominately female, there's simply not that many women in the IT, so they are small minority of the candidates).
Simply put: it seems that our teams preferred to have at least one female member, just to keep things interesting.
[+] [-] 0gravitas|2 years ago|reply
See also:
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_effect
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_attractiveness_stereo...
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_in_advertising
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirroring
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patter
[+] [-] version_five|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Havoc|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hulitu|2 years ago|reply
https://youtu.be/PxuUkYiaUc8
[+] [-] heyheyhey|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mouzogu|2 years ago|reply
chatGPT lectured me condescendingly on biases and intentions, as it does.
Bard just said No, life isn't fair.
[+] [-] aaroninsf|2 years ago|reply
The foundation of human society is subjugating (evolved animal) instinct, to evolved cultural expectations and behavioral norms.
It is fundamental in functional societies that instinct is not "denied," it is recognized as exactly that thing which society erects constructs and behavioral expectations around to manage.
Instinct may in most cases be unavoidable and inevitable.
Healthy participation in a healthy society means asserting will and cultivating habits which correct for, guard against, and render unproblematic, these things.
NB I say "propaganda" because there is a relentless subtext (now, often overtly stated and championed, especially among shills for toxic masculinity) that "men are unable to control themselves, and it is not just inappropriate but immoral to expect them to." Ask any seventh grade boy you know about Tate and his ilk... then educate and push back.
[+] [-] freejazz|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mensetmanusman|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rf15|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] michaelteter|2 years ago|reply
That became a matter of some consideration, because there were arguments that she would be too disruptive within the office because of her age, appearance, and gender.
What's fascinating is that the "right" answer was not clear here. Should we consider those factors, effectively making her personal characteristics a negative, or should we continue with the knowledge that she would likely get too much attention (some of which she might find uncomfortable)?
In the end, we chose a male candidate who seemed to be a better fit based on skills and academic focus. But had it been an equal match based on background alone, I think we still would have chosen the man.
FWIW, I was providing only analysis of the candidates based on their in-person interview performance primarily related to general problem solving, so I did not affect the selection based on those personal factors.
[+] [-] yieldcrv|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] freejazz|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Peritract|2 years ago|reply
I think you've misidentified the problem. The issue has nothing to do with the applicant, and everything to do with a team culture that would find it 'disruptive' to have a member who was young/female/attractive.
The right answer is to work on fixing that culture.
[+] [-] ahzhou|2 years ago|reply
IME, women are all too familiar with the challenges of working in a male-dominated workplace, but ultimately just want to pursue a career they enjoy. The “right” decision is to respect that drive and not to infantilize them by making decisions on their behalf.
[+] [-] Detrytus|2 years ago|reply
Simply put: it seems that our teams preferred to have at least one female member, just to keep things interesting.