top | item 3606970

Apple Removes X11 in OS X Mountain Lion, Shifts Support to Open Source XQuartz

120 points| pooriaazimi | 14 years ago |macrumors.com | reply

46 comments

order
[+] js2|14 years ago|reply
The title is a bit unclear. Up through Lion, Apple bundled XQuartz to provide X11 support. Going forward, they will no longer do so. Instead you'll have to download and install the XQuartz binary separately. Apple will continue to support XQuartz as an open source project. There will just no longer be an "official" Apple version.

[Edit: why would someone downvote this?]

[+] DrJokepu|14 years ago|reply
You have been downvoted because many people on HN base their votes on whether they like the message of a comment. People who like Apple products and can identify with the values of the company will feel you're defending Apple with your comment and will upvote you for doing so. Other people who like X11 or XQuartz a lot or simply dislike Apple will feel that you're trying to defend an evil act and will downvote your comment in retribution. I'm not sure how helpful this voting pattern is for the quality of HN discussions but it's basic human nature and there's not much that can be done about it.
[+] duskwuff|14 years ago|reply
> There will just no longer be an "official" Apple version.

Even that's overstating it -- there will still be an "official" Apple version, written by Apple employees and automatically installed when it's needed; it just won't be on most users' machines.

[+] cdr|14 years ago|reply
Off topic, but asking about downvotes is rarely productive. It'll almost always fix itself given time.
[+] TheCoreh|14 years ago|reply
I think it's a good move from Apple's part.

It's not uncommon for users that rely on X11 support to update to the latest XQuartz release by themselves, anyway. Perhaps this will even bring more attention to the project, which is always good.

It's also one less thing for them to worry about, since they're moving to a faster release cycle.

Now, IMO, most people that need XQuartz need it to run GTK apps, like the GIMP. Is there a technical reason why GTK doesn't support OS X natively? Or is it only because noone ever did it, really? Perhaps now that can also happen?

It would be really nice to have GTK apps using the menu bar and displaying native OS X widgets.

[+] bri3d|14 years ago|reply
http://www.gtk.org/download/macos.php

There's been a Quartz backend for GTK+ for quite some time. Working GIMP builds for native OSX have been available since 2011, and for most projects it's just a matter of finicking with the build system until it works.

[+] MrJagil|14 years ago|reply
Is it just me, or is Macrumors by far the best Apple-news aggregator out there? Their reporting is clean, straight-forward and thorough (e.g. I wasn't aware that X11 was important for scientists). They present the rumors and their validity(looking at past rumors and the sources) and that's it. No non-sense subjective babbling like you see on apple-insider.

Sorry for the derail, it's just something i've been noticing. I wish more people would like to them.

[+] masklinn|14 years ago|reply
> Is it just me, or is Macrumors by far the best Apple-news aggregator out there?

Ars Technica's Infinite Loop section is very good in my experience, they don't tend to do rumor as much and their coverage is usually good and informed.

appleinsider's quality varies a lot and it has lots of terrible writers who really don't know jack (Prince McLean for instance, really should quit the internet altogether), and the 9to5 network is just garbage all around, with 9to5mac being the Apple-scenting of that garbage.

[+] alastairpat|14 years ago|reply
They're certainly not bad (and what I subscribe to in RSS) when one considers the field.

A lot of it is very US-centric and some of the 'rumours' aren't very news-worthy (the numerous stories on dock connectors for the iPad 3 come to mind) but it's far more like a news site that works mostly on facts (well, as close to facts as rumours can come) than mere speculation and conjecture. Arn, the guy who runs it, is an MD which might explain the difference to an extent.

[+] tehjones|14 years ago|reply
Apple seems to be taking another turn towards open source software. The spinning off of the cli build tools into an smaller package makes like easier for tools like homebrew and fink. Supporting projects like this is a very good sign.
[+] rsynnott|14 years ago|reply
Well, they've been supporting XQuartz since at least 2007...
[+] rbanffy|14 years ago|reply
Can we please calm down? All that happened is that they will no longer bundle an old version of XQuartz with every new release of OSX, which is probably a good thing because it will probably make it less hacky to install a newer version.

How many Mac users actually use X? I assume a fraction of the audience of HN does, but, again, the last time I used X on a Mac it was on a PPC G3.

[+] ComputerGuru|14 years ago|reply
Inkscape only runs via X on Mac.
[+] mbateman|14 years ago|reply
Doesn't everyone use XQuartz anyway?
[+] julien_p|14 years ago|reply
The X11 that comes with Lion is XQuartz anyway.

All this changes is that the first time you run an application that uses X11 a dialog box pops up directing you to the XQuartz project page.

[+] rbanffy|14 years ago|reply
XQuartz comes bundled with every OSX install disk. That doesn't mean people use it. My mother and my wife probably have it installed, but I doubt they ever heard of X or used it.
[+] __david__|14 years ago|reply
Does Xquartz install the launchd component that listens on /etc/launch*/org.x and then launches the app on demand?
[+] grzaks|14 years ago|reply
I hope divvy is not affected by this. They are using X11 API.
[+] rsynnott|14 years ago|reply
So in future, users will be prompted to install XQuartz, rather than using the rather antique version of XQuartz which currently comes with MacOS.
[+] flocial|14 years ago|reply
Would be nice to have an official package manager. Or better yet Debian under the hood.
[+] jc4p|14 years ago|reply
The biggest effect this has for me is that I'll now need to find a good replacement for Wireshark.
[+] digitalsushi|14 years ago|reply
I was going to make a joke about someone doing a web based wireshark but it looks like someone actually bothered doing that.. http://cloudshark.org/ go figure.