Grusch said the recoveries of partial fragments through and up to intact vehicles have been made for decades through the present day by the government, its allies, and defense contractors. Analysis has determined that the objects retrieved are “of exotic origin (non-human intelligence, whether extraterrestrial or unknown origin) based on the vehicle morphologies and material science testing and the possession of unique atomic arrangements and radiological signatures,” he said.
Extraordinary claims -- extraordinary evidence.
Show us some of these fragments, please. You know, the ones with the special "vehicle morphologies", the "unique atomic arrangements and radiological signatures" and stuff.
Otherwise, there's nothing to talk about here. And nothing fundamentally different from these claims than in all those glaring headlines we've been glancing past, at the top of few certain supermarket tabloids that don't need to be named -- for half a century now.
"Secret Government Base Has Wreckage of Alien Craft ..."
More specifically, you are entirely ignoring the context here.
> Other intelligence officials, both active and retired, with knowledge of these programs through their work in various agencies, have independently provided similar, corroborating information, both on and off the record.
> The whistleblower, David Charles Grusch, 36, a decorated former combat officer in Afghanistan, is a veteran of the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA) and the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO). He served as the reconnaissance office’s representative to the Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force from 2019-2021. From late 2021 to July 2022, he was the NGA’s co-lead for UAP analysis and its representative to the task force.
Its hard to imagine so many people could have known about this for so long, yet it remained secret. I expect you could keep something like an assassination secret since everyone who knows about it is probably in some way complicit. Wouldn't be the case here.
Also of course the energy required to get to Earth from somewhere else, for an organism that used any kind of "vehicle" we could recognize as such, would be enormous.
Of course evidence would be much better (though I'm not sure what kind of evidence I would actually trust). But if the story is true, it makes sense that we're not seeing anything: given that they're talking about an arms race with other countries, the US would not want to show any details that adversaries might not already know. Since the US government looked over everything they wouldn't allow actual evidence to be released.
I'm not saying this is true or false, but if it's true, we'd expect no actual evidence.
I totally agree. You say you’ve been covering up some big project for 70 years? Okay, where are the results? Otherwise your just fronting, desperate to cover your ignorance for what you don’t understand and which challenges your authority.
This is the governing superstructure’s chance to step up. I hope it takes it
Jonathan Grey says secrets have been necessary. “Though a tough nut to crack, potential technological advancements may be gleaned from non-human intelligence/UAP retrievals by any sufficiently advanced nation and then used to wage asymmetrical warfare, so, therefore, some secrecy must remain,” he says. “However, it is no longer necessary to continue to deny that these advanced technologies derived from non-human intelligence exist at all or to deny that these technologies have landed, crashed, or fallen into the hands of human beings.”
- Jonathan Grey, the intelligence officer specializing in UAP analysis at the National Air and Space Intelligence Center, is speaking publicly for the first time, identified here under the identity he uses inside the agency.
Being able to acknowledge they exist has to be more beneficial to our country. Open communication is essential to science. The more scientists with clearences we can get in, and cracking the nut, the better off the US will be.
The identity of the "whistleblower" doesn't change the fact that it is EXTREMELY unlikely that this has been claimed to have happened in multiple countries over multiple decades and yet there is not a single picture that doesn't look like it was taken with a potato. There is not a single sample of material. None of the craft has ever fallen into civilian hands. All of the involved governments have been able to keep it a secret.
As I'm sure all of you are aware, all of this is statistically improbable to the point that it can likely be safely considered to be untrue. If we're considering probabilities, I think it's far more likely that the US Government is running some kind of psychological operation.
What irks me about all this is that it remained a "secret" quite well guarded for so long (and he characterizes as a global phenomenon, so gigantic surface area for public scrutiny/whistle-blowing)[1], but then I remember the PRISM program/Snowden revelations and I don't know what to think. Perhaps it's also valid to consider that it might be a top secret US aircraft that he judged to be of alien origin and no one in the military tried to correct it, for obvious reasons.
[1] - “Retrievals of this kind are not limited to the United States. This is a global phenomenon, and yet a global solution continues to elude us.”
But it wasn't secret. The narrative has been out there for ages but covered in disinformation so you can't see it properly. The disinformation caused people to see it as ridiculous, as was intended, so they ignored previous government whistleblowers with the same story.
Whether it's true or not, there are some predictable consequences to a mainstream "proof of aliens" scenario:
- for national governments, the choice to accept revealing the existence of aliens now would be an implied endorsement of the current world order. e.g. everything has changed, we need to suspend new changes until we know more. Looks bad for elections.
- it is a reason to dispense with rules and limits on sovereign powers that were created without this key ontological knowledge. Aliens are the ultimate existential emergency, states will do what they want "for humanity." Your privileges are a from a world that no longer exists, etc.
- even if it's a hoax, elevating aliens to official news seizes back lost official narrative control, which twitter had made untenable this weekend.
- Worst case scenario, it would imply a mandate from "above" to do whatever the coordinating body behind this revelation might have planned.
Whether this alien thing is true or not, any mainstream acceptance of an alien visitation can be interpreted a signal for co-ordination around a narrative that would very likely be in service to these objectives, imo.
Nah man, if that were true, governments & corporate would have revealed the existence of aliens when they first knew about them.
Rather than playing an elaborate counterintelligence cover game, pretending they have advanced projects reverse engineering, creating technology, a secret space program, to give the illusion of control and knowledge about some thing they don’t understand, they can’t reproduce, and they have no control over.
You’re right, the aliens are above Earth governments, and corporations. But that’s why they can’t reveal them: why we gonna listen to them if there’s something better out there?
The creation of a new priest class? unlikely.
Official disclosure at this point just means the corporate government superstructure has become comfortable with vulnerability and they’re OK that humanity goes on this path together to adjust to this new reality, rather than thinking they have to lie, be afraid, and deny everything to keep it all super secret, just to protect their authority.
The wiggle is that maybe they are only “comfortable with vulnerability” now that they think they can keep us under total control after our sheepishness during the pandemic. Hopefully not, but let’s see how this plays out, and if this even becomes or helps beget official disclosure.
> It has since been reorganized and expanded into the All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office to include investigations of objects operating underwater.
This is a piece of important information. They probably have proof that there are interesting objects moving undersea or out of sea.
> His on-the-record statements were all “cleared for open publication” on April 4 and 6, 2023, in documents provided to us.
This basically means Mr. Grusch is not alone. He was probably "ordered" by his faction to go public. And the fact that the material gets cleared means that probably the ruling military faction approves it, but mainstream media, mostly serving other factions, refused to go public with the material. In fact, chief of CIA visited Beijing last month. Did they discuss anything about this?
> a number of potential sources do not trust the leadership of the All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office established by Congress.”
Who is this leadership? I suspect this is a civilian who knows nothing about this, thus not trusted.
> The existence of complex historical programs involving the coordinated retrieval and study of exotic materials, dating back to the early 20th century, should no longer remain a secret
God if this is true, I cannot imagine the span of the whole project globally. Was Tunguska the very first one?
These are the same sites I would expect to see blurry pictures of Big Foot. Unless we're assuming that the Department of Defense is capable of suppressing every major news outlet?
The authors of the article are Leslie Kean and Ralph Blumenthal, the people who broke off the news about the secret US program to study UFOs on the New York Times back in 2017 and 2018.
The other journalist that has interviewed the whistleblower is Ross Coulthart, the award-winning investigative journalist who published interviews with Nat Kobitz, former US Navy Science and Tech Director, who claimed to have knowledge of a program to reverse-engineer crashed UFOs.
The people who are breaking these news can't be dismissed easily.
Insane, but totally believable "a[n eighty year] Cold War for recovered and exploited physical material – a competition with near-peer adversaries over the years to identify UAP crashes/landings and retrieve the material for exploitation/reverse engineering to garner asymmetric national defense advantages."
How many of these crashes are there? Did these aliens fly halfway across a galaxy just to crash in our neck of the woods? Are they flying around in cheap junk? Or are they just terrible pilots? All those special vehicle morphologies and unique atomic arrangements just to crash land. Odd.
This is in parts to remove the baggage that comes with the word, but also to be more precise in what is described here: https://i.redd.it/sm2tecjyuqf91.png
Very calculated wording. Gives them a form of outs if the population realizes that it's actually just the US government generating fake "alien" stories to control the masses using sophisticated AI/AGI technology, they can then claim "actually we always knew it was advanced AI beings".
I can believe there would be a lot of competition between the different armed services and even private corporations in keeping this kind of information to themselves, to allow them to use the information for their own private gain. For example, the Air Force would want it kept to themselves for "their" future technology plans and wouldn't want the Navy to get it for "their" plans. And the same for individuals and corporations who might benefit from the study of such information, objects, etc.
So while it may seem nearly impossible to keep this information secret for decades, I believe it's possible, with enough threatening and potential for personal gain. For me, Snowden completely debunked "it's not possible to keep that big of a secret for so long".
This was never a secret tho. Define secret. It's not "unknown", in this case, is it? That's part of the plan. The machinery of secrecy: disinformation. Poison the well with so much crazy balderdash, that you end up hiding in plain sight.
This narrative has been out for decades, and previous government insiders have come forward, but it's always carefully constructed with many "outs", so that people can dismiss it. So it's not secret, people have known about this, and you may have been told about this, but you would have dismissed it as crazy. That's part of the plan. That's how you keep a secret, you get the people to keep it for you. By not hiding it, just making it seem ridiculous.
Of course the details, real and high quality photos/videos or aliens, and actual physical craft you can go and touch, are still hidden. But through the vanguard of disinformation you can help protect all that by making any approach to the topic seem ridiculous. Then even if anyone leaks from that special access project area, you are aided by the fact that people view the whole topic through the lens of the ridiculousness you have carefully created.
A comprehensive counterintelligence strategy. Is how you do it. I guess.
I think that's part of why such stories get traction. Real life is boring. People want something more. When something comes along, they hope it's true, and motivated reasoning comes in.
When these clearly superior beings that have advanced far beyond us come knocking, I am sure the first thing we should ask is - whether they accept Jesus as their lord and savior, as it seems very important to us.
How we should handle our first encounters has been asked before in an article titled:
"Kill Them And Eat Them" (opinion) by Jules Siegel, illustrated by Doug Taylor in
Playboy Magazine August 1977 vol.24, no.8
IIRC the article argues that:
- every modern civilization has been a disaster for less-modern ones,
- the only group that have survived encounters with modern civilization are the Yanomami Indians of the Amazon who have avoided cultural contamination by killing and eating anyone who intrudes upon their territory. Therefore...
- we should adopt the Yanomamis' strategy in dealing with advanced civilizations.
Perhaps you are right about Jesus. Perhaps Jesus and the Yanomami would be quite compatible. After all, when I was a teen we played guitars and sang songs at Mass. One relevant verse comes to mind:
we are clearly seeing superdimensional hardware, vessel which are observable from our three dimensions, but obviously exist in at least one extra dimension.
Given how fast the can accelerate or instantly break, there could be two extra dimensions, being time a physical dimension from the point of view of a fifth dimension. Hence, FTL - faster than light - travel could exists, without breaking any law of physics valid in the three dimensional universe.
And if time is physical dimension and you are "standing" on the fifth dimension, travelling backward or forward in time, could be a matter of just "walking" some meters, then you just went back in time, or walk in the opposite direction and you travelled to the future. From the point of view of a hyphotetical fifth dimension and being time a physical dimension, "everything" would be happening at once. You could even go further, in this context a "closed loop" in time could be possible, because now what you change in the past, doesn't create a new timeline (as in the multi-verse theories), but just changing some stuff in one point, then a few meters away - in the future - things consequently get changed. "The future changing the past".
Also, if the UFOs are superdimensional objects it becames just logic the things can travel so fast underwater, because they are not interacting fully - probably - with the matter of the three dimensional space. There are other possibilities, the hyphotetitcal superdimensional UFOs probably can travel through solid matter as well, just as they do through air or water. Hence, some stories of UFOs using mountains as bases suddently make a bit of sense, even if you go to the mountain just to find rocks and apparently no bases.
If you can displace mass through a hyphotetical upper dimension above our standard three dimensional o even fourth dimensional (including time), space, suddenly FTL becames a lot more easier, the travel from one star to other star could be instantaneous, or even to 100 galaxies away from your starting point.
Also there you got another possible answer to the Fermi Paradox, the ETs are everywhere, it could hundreds of cities of ETs on the solar system right now, and the galaxy is blowing with life, but almost of them exist in upper dimensions beyond our three dimesional space, hence they remain mostly invisible to us.
The UFOs then could very be just us, humans from the future, travelling to the past to look for something, maybe stuying us like we study Neanderthals.
unless he smuggled a piece out of the UFO or takes a guided tour of UFOs with our brightest scientists taking measurements, no one is going to take him seriously . Further may risk pushing the topic into more incredulity
It does sound like the guy was the head of the pentagon's UAP taskforce, and also a senior high level advisor to the president. Not taking him seriously might be the wrong approach?
[+] [-] lisasays|2 years ago|reply
Extraordinary claims -- extraordinary evidence.
Show us some of these fragments, please. You know, the ones with the special "vehicle morphologies", the "unique atomic arrangements and radiological signatures" and stuff.
Otherwise, there's nothing to talk about here. And nothing fundamentally different from these claims than in all those glaring headlines we've been glancing past, at the top of few certain supermarket tabloids that don't need to be named -- for half a century now.
[+] [-] Loquebantur|2 years ago|reply
More specifically, you are entirely ignoring the context here.
> Other intelligence officials, both active and retired, with knowledge of these programs through their work in various agencies, have independently provided similar, corroborating information, both on and off the record.
> The whistleblower, David Charles Grusch, 36, a decorated former combat officer in Afghanistan, is a veteran of the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency (NGA) and the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO). He served as the reconnaissance office’s representative to the Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force from 2019-2021. From late 2021 to July 2022, he was the NGA’s co-lead for UAP analysis and its representative to the task force.
[+] [-] spfzero|2 years ago|reply
Also of course the energy required to get to Earth from somewhere else, for an organism that used any kind of "vehicle" we could recognize as such, would be enormous.
But, good to stay open-minded.
[+] [-] Timon3|2 years ago|reply
I'm not saying this is true or false, but if it's true, we'd expect no actual evidence.
[+] [-] graderjs|2 years ago|reply
This is the governing superstructure’s chance to step up. I hope it takes it
[+] [-] graderjs|2 years ago|reply
- Jonathan Grey, the intelligence officer specializing in UAP analysis at the National Air and Space Intelligence Center, is speaking publicly for the first time, identified here under the identity he uses inside the agency.
Also: https://web.archive.org/web/20230605130331/https://thedebrie...
[+] [-] swalsh|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] blazespin|2 years ago|reply
When has there ever been a senior official with a significant reputation coming out like this?
That in itself is 'extraordinary' evidence.
Is this proof that life is out there? No, but if you're not updating your priors, you're not rational.
[+] [-] IAmGraydon|2 years ago|reply
As I'm sure all of you are aware, all of this is statistically improbable to the point that it can likely be safely considered to be untrue. If we're considering probabilities, I think it's far more likely that the US Government is running some kind of psychological operation.
[+] [-] MattGaiser|2 years ago|reply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Hellyer#Extraterrestrial_...
[+] [-] Rzor|2 years ago|reply
[1] - “Retrievals of this kind are not limited to the United States. This is a global phenomenon, and yet a global solution continues to elude us.”
[+] [-] graderjs|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] motohagiography|2 years ago|reply
- for national governments, the choice to accept revealing the existence of aliens now would be an implied endorsement of the current world order. e.g. everything has changed, we need to suspend new changes until we know more. Looks bad for elections.
- it is a reason to dispense with rules and limits on sovereign powers that were created without this key ontological knowledge. Aliens are the ultimate existential emergency, states will do what they want "for humanity." Your privileges are a from a world that no longer exists, etc.
- even if it's a hoax, elevating aliens to official news seizes back lost official narrative control, which twitter had made untenable this weekend.
- Worst case scenario, it would imply a mandate from "above" to do whatever the coordinating body behind this revelation might have planned.
Whether this alien thing is true or not, any mainstream acceptance of an alien visitation can be interpreted a signal for co-ordination around a narrative that would very likely be in service to these objectives, imo.
[+] [-] graderjs|2 years ago|reply
Rather than playing an elaborate counterintelligence cover game, pretending they have advanced projects reverse engineering, creating technology, a secret space program, to give the illusion of control and knowledge about some thing they don’t understand, they can’t reproduce, and they have no control over.
You’re right, the aliens are above Earth governments, and corporations. But that’s why they can’t reveal them: why we gonna listen to them if there’s something better out there?
The creation of a new priest class? unlikely.
Official disclosure at this point just means the corporate government superstructure has become comfortable with vulnerability and they’re OK that humanity goes on this path together to adjust to this new reality, rather than thinking they have to lie, be afraid, and deny everything to keep it all super secret, just to protect their authority.
The wiggle is that maybe they are only “comfortable with vulnerability” now that they think they can keep us under total control after our sheepishness during the pandemic. Hopefully not, but let’s see how this plays out, and if this even becomes or helps beget official disclosure.
[+] [-] markus_zhang|2 years ago|reply
> It has since been reorganized and expanded into the All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office to include investigations of objects operating underwater.
This is a piece of important information. They probably have proof that there are interesting objects moving undersea or out of sea.
> His on-the-record statements were all “cleared for open publication” on April 4 and 6, 2023, in documents provided to us.
This basically means Mr. Grusch is not alone. He was probably "ordered" by his faction to go public. And the fact that the material gets cleared means that probably the ruling military faction approves it, but mainstream media, mostly serving other factions, refused to go public with the material. In fact, chief of CIA visited Beijing last month. Did they discuss anything about this?
> a number of potential sources do not trust the leadership of the All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office established by Congress.”
Who is this leadership? I suspect this is a civilian who knows nothing about this, thus not trusted.
> The existence of complex historical programs involving the coordinated retrieval and study of exotic materials, dating back to the early 20th century, should no longer remain a secret
God if this is true, I cannot imagine the span of the whole project globally. Was Tunguska the very first one?
[+] [-] ComodoHacker|2 years ago|reply
https://thedebrief.org/fact-check-q-a-with-debrief-co-founde...
[+] [-] lb4r|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] speakfreely|2 years ago|reply
debrief.org, nysun.com, dailystar.co.uk, dailymail.co.uk, the-sun.com, brobible.com, ar15.com, dailywire.com, m4carbine.net
These are the same sites I would expect to see blurry pictures of Big Foot. Unless we're assuming that the Department of Defense is capable of suppressing every major news outlet?
[+] [-] david-gpu|2 years ago|reply
The other journalist that has interviewed the whistleblower is Ross Coulthart, the award-winning investigative journalist who published interviews with Nat Kobitz, former US Navy Science and Tech Director, who claimed to have knowledge of a program to reverse-engineer crashed UFOs.
The people who are breaking these news can't be dismissed easily.
[+] [-] King-Aaron|2 years ago|reply
On the other hand, it may be that more 'trustworthy' organisations are doing some level of due diligence before republishing this.
If nothing surfaces in the larger outlets in the next 24-48 hours it probably is just the first thing.
[+] [-] kunalgupta|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] elric|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] keernan|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] romseb|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] _1feg|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] moab9|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] prirun|2 years ago|reply
So while it may seem nearly impossible to keep this information secret for decades, I believe it's possible, with enough threatening and potential for personal gain. For me, Snowden completely debunked "it's not possible to keep that big of a secret for so long".
[+] [-] graderjs|2 years ago|reply
This narrative has been out for decades, and previous government insiders have come forward, but it's always carefully constructed with many "outs", so that people can dismiss it. So it's not secret, people have known about this, and you may have been told about this, but you would have dismissed it as crazy. That's part of the plan. That's how you keep a secret, you get the people to keep it for you. By not hiding it, just making it seem ridiculous.
Of course the details, real and high quality photos/videos or aliens, and actual physical craft you can go and touch, are still hidden. But through the vanguard of disinformation you can help protect all that by making any approach to the topic seem ridiculous. Then even if anyone leaks from that special access project area, you are aided by the fact that people view the whole topic through the lens of the ridiculousness you have carefully created.
A comprehensive counterintelligence strategy. Is how you do it. I guess.
[+] [-] markus_zhang|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] AnimalMuppet|2 years ago|reply
This same mechanism can explain AI hope.
[+] [-] VincentEvans|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] giardini|2 years ago|reply
"Kill Them And Eat Them" (opinion) by Jules Siegel, illustrated by Doug Taylor in
Playboy Magazine August 1977 vol.24, no.8
IIRC the article argues that:
- every modern civilization has been a disaster for less-modern ones,
- the only group that have survived encounters with modern civilization are the Yanomami Indians of the Amazon who have avoided cultural contamination by killing and eating anyone who intrudes upon their territory. Therefore...
- we should adopt the Yanomamis' strategy in dealing with advanced civilizations.
Perhaps you are right about Jesus. Perhaps Jesus and the Yanomami would be quite compatible. After all, when I was a teen we played guitars and sang songs at Mass. One relevant verse comes to mind:
Eat His body,
Drink His blood,
And we'll sing
A song of love,
Allelu-, allelu-, allelu-, alleluia.
[+] [-] unknown|2 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] 43345dsfsdf|2 years ago|reply
Given how fast the can accelerate or instantly break, there could be two extra dimensions, being time a physical dimension from the point of view of a fifth dimension. Hence, FTL - faster than light - travel could exists, without breaking any law of physics valid in the three dimensional universe.
And if time is physical dimension and you are "standing" on the fifth dimension, travelling backward or forward in time, could be a matter of just "walking" some meters, then you just went back in time, or walk in the opposite direction and you travelled to the future. From the point of view of a hyphotetical fifth dimension and being time a physical dimension, "everything" would be happening at once. You could even go further, in this context a "closed loop" in time could be possible, because now what you change in the past, doesn't create a new timeline (as in the multi-verse theories), but just changing some stuff in one point, then a few meters away - in the future - things consequently get changed. "The future changing the past".
Also, if the UFOs are superdimensional objects it becames just logic the things can travel so fast underwater, because they are not interacting fully - probably - with the matter of the three dimensional space. There are other possibilities, the hyphotetitcal superdimensional UFOs probably can travel through solid matter as well, just as they do through air or water. Hence, some stories of UFOs using mountains as bases suddently make a bit of sense, even if you go to the mountain just to find rocks and apparently no bases.
If you can displace mass through a hyphotetical upper dimension above our standard three dimensional o even fourth dimensional (including time), space, suddenly FTL becames a lot more easier, the travel from one star to other star could be instantaneous, or even to 100 galaxies away from your starting point.
Also there you got another possible answer to the Fermi Paradox, the ETs are everywhere, it could hundreds of cities of ETs on the solar system right now, and the galaxy is blowing with life, but almost of them exist in upper dimensions beyond our three dimesional space, hence they remain mostly invisible to us.
The UFOs then could very be just us, humans from the future, travelling to the past to look for something, maybe stuying us like we study Neanderthals.
[+] [-] unknown|2 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] SergeAx|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mensetmanusman|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] qup|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ashesharma|2 years ago|reply
unless he smuggled a piece out of the UFO or takes a guided tour of UFOs with our brightest scientists taking measurements, no one is going to take him seriously . Further may risk pushing the topic into more incredulity
[+] [-] King-Aaron|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] uhtred|2 years ago|reply