Framework Laptop 16 Deep Dive: 180W Power Adapter

[levitate]

Framework's modular design has been advertised as a solution to upgradability, which is huge, but I see the real strength in being able to have a GPU plugged in when I'm using my laptop at home, and swapping it out for an extra battery when I'm using my laptop away from an outlet.

Being able to transform the capabilities of the laptop based on your situation is a huge game changer.

[sschueller]

I find that hilarious because we did that back in the day on laptops that let you put batteries in instead of a cd or floppy drive.

Then Apple happened and ever laptop maker only saw the cash, abondend what users needed and wanted to copy what Apple was peddling including making parts on replacable.

Now after waisting all these resources on form over function even Apple has started to go back to function (at least a tiny bit).

[AceJohnny2]

My first "real" laptop was a beast of a Dell workstation-class laptop in 2005. One of its key features for me was being able to swap out the CD drive for an extra battery.

Of course, by modern standards the thing weighed a ton. These days, my 15" MBP feels like a brick in my bike bag, and it's likely 30-50% lighter!

(Oh and fun fact: recently I wanted to test out Moore's Law, and see how the RasPi 4 compared to that Core Duo laptop (that I still have!) Well, the 18y-old laptop still handily beat out the RasPi4 in single-CPU performance! Moore's law can't quite make up for opposite market segments)

[danShumway]

How hard is that to do? I know Frameworks are repairable, but you can really do a swap like that completely on the fly?

Honestly, this comment is a somewhat decent sales hook for me; I've been thinking about getting a Framework for my next laptop whenever the current one I use really starts to fail (depending on how their AMD stuff works out), and this comment makes me more curious to look into them.

[varispeed]

Interesting that nobody came with a concept of a desktop PC, but as a laptop (commercially) before.

Most like due to perceived niche, no standard format of laptop motherboards, not easy to buy laptop motherboard off the shelf.

Then also the technology was evolving, so manufacturers maybe didn't want to restrict themselves to the certain layout and way how components can be laid out and connected.

[foxbyte]

The inclusion of GaN technology in Framework's new 180W adapter is a game-changer. GaN's superior power efficiency and ability to sustain higher voltages translate to smaller, more efficient charging . Great to see tech reducing waste and improving performance!

[megous]

We don't know how efficient this is. Single number given in the article doesn't mean anything. SMPS come with an efficiency curve over the whole range of provided power. It can be 70% efficient at 20W or 85% at 180W and 93% only at 70W. Complete information was not provided by the article.

And USB-C supplies can also switch voltages, so the efficiency will also depend on the voltage (both input and ouput, as this can probably be used in both 110V and 230V grids)...

It's just marketing... "up to 93%" :)

[wesapien]

Slimq makes a wide range of GAN chargers all the way up to 330W. There are review of their 240W charger on YouTube that provides fair critiques in their design and Slimq also responds thoughtfully. I'm looking to get a 330W charger for my Legion 5i Pro 2022 that came with a huge 1KG power brick (300W).

[rejectfinite]

I can't read and not think of WE GAAN

[LoganDark]

Wait, this isn't a deep dive at all, this is just an ad.

(Is this a deep dive for the laptop itself or a deep dive for the adapter? I can't tell.)

[nrp]

We're doing a series of write-ups of each of the major subsystems of the Framework Laptop 16. This is a post we wrote about the power adapter, explaining the design decisions and sharing which key ICs and manufacturing partners we used to develop it. We wrote it specifically for our newsletter, which people subscribe to in order to get updates on our product developments. It being on HN means a newsletter subscriber probably submitted the URL, and enough people were interested in it to vote it up.

[TOGoS]

I guess a deep dive would have had to get into more gritty details about USB-PD? Or maybe show how they crammed all the requisite capacitors and heat dissipators into the thing.

It did answer my question, though, which was "how do they pull that much power over a USB-C cable?" A: USB PD 3.1 allows up to 48V * 5A to be supplied so long as the cable has the right e-marker on it.

Though honestly, I would be careful trying to get deeper than that. The USB standard has become a bit of a spaghetti mess. Unless you are building your own equipment or trying to daisy-chain some DisplayPort stuff through some Thunderbolt 3 hubs you're probably better off thinking of it as `capabilities(USB network) = min(capabilities(computer), capabilities(cable), capabilitieS(hub))` and then dropping 50$ for a nice cable that you can brag to your friends about ("ALL MY POWER, PERIPHERALS, AND VIDEO OVER THIS ONE [insanely overengineered] WIRE WOOHOOQ")

Anyway, my two cents are that I'm glad they kept the new power brick mostly-the-same-dimensions as the old ones so that my 3D-printed gridbeam-mountable power brick holders[1] continue to work.

[1] https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5400078

[saltysalt]

I am very happy with my Framework laptop, and love their vision of modular design and upgrades.

[megous]

That's still 12W to get rid of from a small enclosed space. I wouldn't want to operate this at peak power all the time. And SMPS don't usually have peak efficiency at rated output power.

Do these things re-negotiate power contract, or will they just go into thermal shutdown when overheated?

[kayson]

Are there other laptops/chargers out there that support USB PD 3.1 EPR? Curious how those efficiencies compare.

[Kirby64]

The latest Macbook 140W charger is USB PD EPR; It's not 180W, but it's one of the first running EPR.

It appears the Macbook charger gets about ~93% efficiency at ~100W load, and 87% efficiency at ~27W load. No metrics on the 140W charging I can find, though.

[staticfish]

https://www.theverge.com/2021/10/19/22734233/apple-140w-macb...

MBP 16 inch in 2021 was apparently the first PD 3.1 apple charger

[flakiness]

Related threads:

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35277660 "Framework announces AMD, new Intel gen, 16“ laptop and more"

- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35286544 "Framework Laptop 16"

[jeron]

there's some guerilla marketing going on with Framework, I see posts on Framework on front page of HN every few days and I think everyone's tolerating it because we all support Framework's goal. But this is effectively advertisements at this point

[londons_explore]

So why didn't this support the 240 watt mode (ie. 48v 5 amps)?

I can't really envision any standard component choices which would support 36 volts and yet not support 48 volts...

[deepsun]

I don't understand why they don't put two or three USB-C ports to the charger. It could serve as universal charger for other devices as well.

[wmf]

Obviously that would cost more. Anker sells that BTW.

[dheera]

"while also outputting enough power to handle the Graphics Module with a discrete GPU"

Oh? This is news to me. Will it have an nVidia graphics card?

[vhodges]

the 16" will have a slot for discrete cards (I don't think it will be a PCIe slot but could be wrong).

[Dork1234]

A Power Adapter like this would be great for a small 3d printer.

[betimsl]

Holy moly; 180? Sufficient to power an entire house, my God.

[geoffeg]

You must have a very efficient house.