Reminds me that I've yet to see Chris Morris' 2019 film The Day Shall Come which satirizes the FBI's pathological shoehorning of hapless individuals into a paranoid narrative of terrorist cells plotting violence against the state, based on many instances (the number 100 is mentioned) researched by Morris.
Morris writes[1]:
> The US Attorney General is announcing the sensational arrest of an army based in Miami, about to launch a full ground war on America. The FBI had saved the Nation [...]
> Two years later in Washington DC I met a witness from the resulting trial and discovered this terrifying coup would have been pulled off by seven construction workers riding into Chicago on horses. The idea was a fantasy, spun to make money. They had no guns – and no horses. An FBI informant had offered them $50,000 to attack America [...]
> The government presented it as an Al Qaeda plot bigger than 9/11. These guys weren’t even Muslims, they were Haitian Catholics. It took three trials to find them guilty. They were all jailed as terrorists.
> “I discovered this was not a freakish one off. Since 9/11 it has become Standard Operating Procedure. Informants encourage a Person of Interest to break the law and when they do, the FBI arrest them. Each plan is put together with the federal attorney. Arrest is delayed until the case will play in court. So the conviction rate is 98 per cent. The typical sentence is 25 years.
We’d be foolish to assume they stopped all of a sudden.
The people involved are total idiots and even crazy, but the FBI are to blame as well in the Whitmer kidnapping plot. As more comes to light, it seems they created the plot and egged the participants on. They werent just implanted to see what’s going on.
How does this stuff get past a prosecutors office? I get law enforcement being idiots but there's whole teams of lawyers putting these cases together too. Are they really that desperate for work?
I mean, how close do you have to get to be _the_ _lead_ conspirator?
It's one thing to infiltrate a group and then use that information to decide to tail them or arrest them or whatever. But I think there is a line somewhere where this kind of encouragement should anull/vacate a conviction. It's not too far from handing a loaded weapon to a toddler and then being surprised they sometimes go and fire the weapon. I'm almost willing to have this practice abolished just because the system can't police itself to do the right thing.
Also a curious question is whether they FBI have any experience in grooming people and then letting the plot go to completion.
Robert F. Kennedy Jr has been doing the rounds and it really begs the question. The FBI has no problem with grooming people and entrapping them. If it is willing to plot half-measure attacks and destroy lives, where would the confidence come from that they don't also sometimes plot full-measure attacks and destroy lives?
An excellent question, and I believe the most likely scenario (and most common one) is that they simply fail to prevent the plots they orchestrated out of sheer negligence every once in a while.
From what I understood from the OP link, the FBI are working closely with US attorneys on how to structure and sequence their cases.
I really don't understand why you have theorised that a US attorney would allow attacks to take place.
Obviously an attorney is seeking closed prosecutions, and the article is about closing prosecutorial cases against people "plotting" attacks, and, therefore, no additional steps are required in order to obtain prosecution.
Sadly, in the US, this is far from abnormal. For example, school resource officers often target special needs kids, and a disproportionate amount of them end up with arrests. They're easy to manipulate, and are a prime target for the personality types of American cops.
I was looking for this. I find it deeply disturbing that Canadians don’t really care about this.
I knew both of these people in my late teens and it couldn’t have been clearer that they were mentally unstable. They couldn’t conspire to do much at all, let alone the sophisticated things they were accused of.
The work that would have gone into framing them is so difficult to overstate. They would have undermined the RCMP at every turn, either through incompetence or lack of interest in the big plan.
Not through any fault of their own. Korody was nicknamed “potato” as a teen because she was about as intelligent as one. Which is awful, don’t get me wrong. I have a lot of sympathy for these two.
This case made me extremely apprehensive about the RCMP, in any case. The recent Fairy Creek debacle on Vancouver Island wasn’t as bad, but clearly exposed the rotten underbelly of the organization once again.
It’s rough because most Canadians will assume you’re some kind of conspiracy theorist or shit disturber if you hold these opinions. Our police and military possess a strange kind of innocence in our national narrative that the US counterparts don’t appear to have.
Must be fun, ha? Turns out the world is not as filled with crimes, waiting for you to solve them all, as it seemed in your childhood agent movies, then what are you going to do? Make up your own crimes and solve ‘em!
The red team, offence, manufactures crimes, the blue team, defence, solves them. Crime plots that happen to be completely staffed by agents dont get reported.
This article is pretty biased, but even so, there is an interesting point where the father admits that 2 years ago the FBI seized the kid’s computer. Later, the kid kept talking to the FBI, and the father complains that the FBI should have just warned him (the father) rather than arresting the kid.
I mean, the FBI showed up at his house and seized a computer. How many warnings did he expect to get?
The FBI baited his child into a crime. Most people probably expect their government not to lure their children to danger, but to guide them to safety. Your response makes it sound like the kid's behaviour is what the father didn't expect, but no. It's the FBI that did the unexpected, and arguably abhorrent thing.
If it is their modus operandi to enhance their power and prestige with false flag operations written small, it's more credible that they would be willing to do so at scale. You can find any number of conspiracy theories that the FBI created the circumstances that empowered themselves, for pretty much any attack you can name. The behavior described here makes those accusations less incredible.
There are just as many criminals in law enforcement VS normal citizens... The difference is that law enforcement rarely face consequences to their actions... /R/bad_cop_no_donut
It seems like it should be self explanatory why the FBI would ever do such a thing... (and seemingly on a regular basis) but I don't get it. Could someone please ELI5?
[+] [-] ttctciyf|2 years ago|reply
Morris writes[1]:
> The US Attorney General is announcing the sensational arrest of an army based in Miami, about to launch a full ground war on America. The FBI had saved the Nation [...]
> Two years later in Washington DC I met a witness from the resulting trial and discovered this terrifying coup would have been pulled off by seven construction workers riding into Chicago on horses. The idea was a fantasy, spun to make money. They had no guns – and no horses. An FBI informant had offered them $50,000 to attack America [...]
> The government presented it as an Al Qaeda plot bigger than 9/11. These guys weren’t even Muslims, they were Haitian Catholics. It took three trials to find them guilty. They were all jailed as terrorists.
> “I discovered this was not a freakish one off. Since 9/11 it has become Standard Operating Procedure. Informants encourage a Person of Interest to break the law and when they do, the FBI arrest them. Each plan is put together with the federal attorney. Arrest is delayed until the case will play in court. So the conviction rate is 98 per cent. The typical sentence is 25 years.
1: https://lwlies.com/articles/the-day-shall-come-trailer-chris...
[+] [-] nonethewiser|2 years ago|reply
The people involved are total idiots and even crazy, but the FBI are to blame as well in the Whitmer kidnapping plot. As more comes to light, it seems they created the plot and egged the participants on. They werent just implanted to see what’s going on.
https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/mar/19/michigan-gov...
[+] [-] dmix|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mc32|2 years ago|reply
It's one thing to infiltrate a group and then use that information to decide to tail them or arrest them or whatever. But I think there is a line somewhere where this kind of encouragement should anull/vacate a conviction. It's not too far from handing a loaded weapon to a toddler and then being surprised they sometimes go and fire the weapon. I'm almost willing to have this practice abolished just because the system can't police itself to do the right thing.
[+] [-] goeiedaggoeie|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ahahahahah|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Zaheer|2 years ago|reply
https://www.aclu.org/news/national-security/how-the-fbi-spie...
[+] [-] roenxi|2 years ago|reply
Robert F. Kennedy Jr has been doing the rounds and it really begs the question. The FBI has no problem with grooming people and entrapping them. If it is willing to plot half-measure attacks and destroy lives, where would the confidence come from that they don't also sometimes plot full-measure attacks and destroy lives?
[+] [-] asynchronous|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] notavalleyman|2 years ago|reply
I really don't understand why you have theorised that a US attorney would allow attacks to take place.
Obviously an attorney is seeking closed prosecutions, and the article is about closing prosecutorial cases against people "plotting" attacks, and, therefore, no additional steps are required in order to obtain prosecution.
[+] [-] sublinear|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] michaelsshaw|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] the_only_law|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] deepspace|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] steve_adams_86|2 years ago|reply
I knew both of these people in my late teens and it couldn’t have been clearer that they were mentally unstable. They couldn’t conspire to do much at all, let alone the sophisticated things they were accused of.
The work that would have gone into framing them is so difficult to overstate. They would have undermined the RCMP at every turn, either through incompetence or lack of interest in the big plan.
Not through any fault of their own. Korody was nicknamed “potato” as a teen because she was about as intelligent as one. Which is awful, don’t get me wrong. I have a lot of sympathy for these two.
This case made me extremely apprehensive about the RCMP, in any case. The recent Fairy Creek debacle on Vancouver Island wasn’t as bad, but clearly exposed the rotten underbelly of the organization once again.
It’s rough because most Canadians will assume you’re some kind of conspiracy theorist or shit disturber if you hold these opinions. Our police and military possess a strange kind of innocence in our national narrative that the US counterparts don’t appear to have.
[+] [-] StrangeATractor|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] readthenotes1|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] phpisthebest|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Aerbil313|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] akomtu|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kurosawa|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fluxem|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] elzbardico|2 years ago|reply
Think of it as an east-coast, old-money KGB.
[+] [-] Hnrobert42|2 years ago|reply
I mean, the FBI showed up at his house and seized a computer. How many warnings did he expect to get?
[+] [-] Blahah|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nashashmi|2 years ago|reply
To frame them.
[+] [-] hirundo|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kcrwfrd_|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] spencerchubb|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] poorbutdebtfree|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] infamouscow|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Sporktacular|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tyingq|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] activiation|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] throwawayfour|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Georgelemental|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nobodyandproud|2 years ago|reply
Another dimmer view: The FBI agents themselves are getting in practice for sedition, by persuading others (for now) via entrapment.
[+] [-] FpUser|2 years ago|reply