[ignitionmonkey]

>You're asking for website owners not to include a toggle.

I'm not. I'm saying they don't have to include a toggle if they don't see the need to. The decision is on them. No different from their decision to use specific colours, typefaces, text sizes, etc.

If the user has a preference, that toggle should be provided by the browser (the user agent) and the user should seek to get the browser to implement it rather than expect every website owner which has light/dark modes to provide a toggle.

In the current state of things, the browser is telling websites the user prefers a certain colour scheme, which may not even be true. That is really the core issue here if we focus in on dark/light toggles rather than the broader area of alternative stylesheets and ideal UX.

It feels in general that we are in agreement and may be misunderstanding specifics due to a lack of each other's contexts.

[Timon3]

> It feels in general that we are in agreement here and may be misunderstanding specifics due to a lack of each other's contexts.

No, we're in fundamental disagreement. My position is very simple: you don't have to include multiple color schemes. If you do, you have to provide a toggle if you want your UX to not be shitty.

> I'm saying they don't have to include a toggle if they don't see the need to. The decision is on them. No different from their decision to use specific colours, typefaces, text sizes, etc.

But it's not like those other decisions. If a website owner decided to serve European customers double the font size that American customers are served, would you say "yeah, no reason to provide a toggle"? Because that's what you're suggesting - serving people different versions of the website without giving them a way to change it without changing their whole OS color scheme. Just for your website. What if I want to use two websites at the same time that follow your idea and want different color schemes? I can't.

> If the user has a preference, that toggle should be provided by the browser (the user agent) and the user should seek to get the browser to implement it rather than expect every website owner which has light/dark modes to provide a toggle.

But until that is implemented, you shouldn't force shitty UX on users. Don't decide for them or force them to switch up their whole OS color scheme just for your website. Don't make software harder to use than it needs to be just for ideological reasons.

> In the current state of things, the browser is telling websites the user prefers a certain colour scheme, which may not even be true.

Yes, so we should provide a toggle to change it. Don't force the user to change their whole OS color scheme.

[ignitionmonkey]

It sounds like we're in agreement, you're arguing about things I didn't even say.

I just had a look, and Firefox already has the toggle. The only thing left is for them to provide a per-site toggle and it's sorted.

There are extensions which provide it: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-GB/firefox/addon/dark-mode-web...

Might be a matter of time before it becomes the norm.