[stickyricky]

We should shift our perspective on our native-born citizens. Because they're such a massive economic drain we should _stop_ investing in them completely. I know it sounds radical but hear me out. We can realize higher economic utility for our society if A) we stop all investments in non-skilled, non-working-age citizens and B) export those people who are a burden on our society (children, the elderly, the sick, people who enjoy EDM, you get it).

In this way Canada can achieve higher economic utility for itself. I'm imagining a system where everyone in the society is brought in on a temporary basis. They are imported after their post-secondary education and exported maybe 10 years before their retirement. In this way we avoid all the costs associated with having "people" in our country and instead we reap the economic reward of their labor!

I guess I shouldn't say "our" country. I would be exported fairly quickly... But! To those glorious (and brave) few on the executive committee entrusted to leading Canada Inc. through these difficult times, the society they get to inhabit will undoubtedly be the economic envy of the world!

[babyshake]

And a computer could be set and programmed to accept factors from youth, health, sexual fertility, intelligence, and a cross section of necessary skills. Of course it would be absolutely vital that our top government and military men be included to foster and impart the required principles of leadership and tradition. Naturally, they would breed prodigiously, eh? There would be much time, and little to do. But ah with the proper breeding techniques and a ratio of say, ten females to each male, I would guess that they could then work their way back to the present gross national product within say, twenty years.

[TheCapn]

>sexual fertility

You think our government respects people taking time to rear offspring? Of course not! They're not contributing their labour to our economy while being parents so we've structured the incentives to start families in such a way that they're driven back to work ASAP. Strictly speaking: having children is bad for our labour force and should be avoided.

[f38zf5vdt]

For all those taking this seriously, the parent comment was sarcastic and this comment is almost a direct quote from Dr. Strangelove about how to repopulate the Earth after a nuclear apocalypse.

[Terr_]

First the US has to solve the Mineshaft gap, doctor!

[throwaway41029]

@babyshake, you mentioned the ratio of ten women to each man. Now, wouldn't that necessitate the abandonment of the so-called monogamous sexual relationship, I mean, as far as men were concerned?

[geodel]

Fully agree on it. Kids are another great source of profit center that have not been fully utilized. Also we need to explore if un-exportable olds can be mined for parts. That would another win-win.

[red-iron-pine]

The children yearn for the mines...

[JumpCrisscross]

> I'm imagining a system where everyone in the society is brought in on a temporary basis

This is how the Gulf economies work. (Also the Vatican, but for different reasons and at a different age.)

[swader999]

We already have some of the most progressive euthanasia programs in the world. No need to get more creative than that.

[unsupp0rted]

To be fair, those euthanasia programs are only used when someone is either terminally ill or is a healthy-ish 31-year-old who can’t afford housing.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/assisted-s...

[ROTMetro]

But do you have Carousel?

[jrace]

Care for a person dying of Al's and tell me how progressive our Euthanasia program is.

This has nothing to do with the article.

[xracy]

I think, in your response of sarcasm you are brushing over a lot of valid points the OC is making.

They're not saying that we should get rid of natural-born folks. They're just saying that often times the people who most want their nation to not allow other folks in, don't appreciate all of the things that those other folks provide for them. i.e. Immigration is subsidizing a lot of the things you probably enjoy about your life, and we should probably be considering it more as a blessing than a curse.

Nobody is trying to replace you. They're just trying to help you, and provide a better opportunity for their children once they've bought into the same system your parents bought into.

[stickyricky]

> Nobody is trying to replace you.

I'm trying to replace me! Humans are first and foremost economic units. Fungible and replaceable. There's absolutely no reason to prefer any one human over another -- except for their ability to produce economic output.

Society is a vain illusion for the true foundation of civilization -- economic produce. Things like care for the elderly or education of children only exist to maximize the future labor of the young and to deceive the middle-aged. We should cut these vestiges from our society and embrace a new future where only the economically gifted are permitted to remain.

I know at first this is hard to accept but its only through this radical, but sensible, plan that every citizen in Canada will be able to afford a Netflix account with password sharing.

[dimmke]

This type of immigration is strictly for economic and quality of life purposes.

It’s pretty bonkers to say people who immigrate to the US on H1-B visas are doing so out of an altruistic desire to “help” anybody but themselves and their families (not that there’s anything wrong with that.)

People seem to still prefer immigrating to the United States over Canada even though Canada’s immigration system is far more reasonable. They’re trying to scoop people up with policies like this but I think it’s worth taking a step back and reflecting on why that is. I think a big part of it is Canada’s cost of living especially wrt housing is even worse than the US’s and salaries are lower.

And I say this as an expat currently living in Mexico with a fair amount of Americans and Canadians. So this isn’t a pro United States comment, it’s just a reality check. The US has draconian immigration rules and hoops to jump through… but it seems like the demand is such that they can get away with it.

[mistrial9]

> Nobody is trying to replace you. They're just trying to help you

LOL

[JimtheCoder]

I can't be the only one who had to read this a few times before I realized it was sarcasm...

[goodpoint]

On HN?

[unsupp0rted]

It's the Gig-economy model of citizenship and social welfare and it'll take Canada by storm

[Barrin92]

It's precisely the immigrants who come to a country like Canada, education already completed who pay for the investments for others. An adult Indian programmer costs the Canadian taxpayer nothing but contributes immense amounts, and is even more likely to start a business than a native.

This notion that Bob from Podunk rural Canada with an IQ of 80 competes with an immigrant with a PhD makes no sense. The latter finances the welfare of the former. You need to create wealth first before you can redistribute it and keeping the strongest wealth creators out of the country is one of the stupidest damage you can inflict on yourself.

This sarcasm drenched replacement fantasy is the exact opposite of reality. Only if you have a strong economy you can continue to maintain public welfare.

[hello_moto]

> and is even more likely to start a business than a native.

That's too far fetched. They're more likely to start a company in their own country than Canada.

[lambdasquirrel]

You kid, but it’s a valid argument. I’ve known a good few Canadians over the years who went down to the U.S. for work experience and some have even lost their PRs because of some newer policy requiring that they spend half their time in Canada. It’s something that really backfired hard. I’m actually really sad and disappointed for Canada that it is like this. Historically it’s much easier to leave the country than enter it if you’re a skilled person.

This is a big deal. Back in the early 2010s, software developers moving to SF pretty much willed into existence the tech industry up there. Before then, companies would start in SF and move down to the valley. If skilled folks want to move to your area, it can be a boon, and if I’m not mistaken, Canadian tax policy is better suited to redistribute the gains from that than U.S. tax policy.

[glerk]

> Canadian tax policy is better suited to redistribute the gains from that than U.S. tax policy

Nothing attracts profitable businesses and high earning individuals more than a tax policy optimized to redistribute those gains.

[Scoundreller]

> some have even lost their PRs because of some newer policy requiring that they spend half their time in Canada.

Not a new policy. Gotta put in your time as a PR to qualify for a citizenship (that mostly can’t be taken away from you ever).

It anything, the physical presence requirements have been diluted because politicians realize they’re more likely to get your vote if they have you citizenship.

[nottorp]

Who was it that wrote "A Modest Proposal", Jonathan Swift?

[Xorakios]

Potato prices have been very high this year.

And also, Swift's was always a very s(ali|oyl)ent Green proposal is appropriate to Make Room! Make Room!

[htss2013]

As long as you do a land acknowledgement first, I agree this policy would indeed be optimal.

[weard_beard]

A modest proposal. The back-ronym for it should be S.W.I.F.T.

[pyuser583]

This works really well places like Saudi Arabia and UAE.

[AwaAwa]

Canada Inc.

[coding123]

Favorite comment all year.

[oatmeal1]

So the point your making is that the government shouldn't concern itself with increasing the number of citizens that are net contributors to the system?

[hgsgm]

Who does a government serve? Its citizens, or its brand / self?

Citizenship was the world's first labor union.

Inherited citizenship is nepotism.

People love their children (genes).

[jamiek88]

A modest proposal indeed!

[JCharante]

How can you export the people who are a burden? You can’t leave them stateless.

[stickyricky]

I have two words for you. Tundra. City. That's right; we did it. We took the Canada you love and made it _more_ Canada. Up to _twice_ as cold as the previous generation of cities. More that _six_ times as remote. No other competitor is offering this kind of performance. I want to be clear this is a _generational_ leap over the competition. We're at least five years ahead of other major countries. And, boy, you better believe we patented it!

[tivert]

> How can you export the people who are a burden? You can’t leave them stateless.

Sure you can. The only reason nations avoid allowing people to become stateless is an appreciation of the burden that places on those people. But if we're pursuing a modest proposal where the government shifts its perspective to focus on "realize[ing] higher economic utility for" itself, that becomes less a concern.

At the very minimum you can "export" those low-economic-utility people by sticking them them on a barge and towing it to well into international waters where the currents will take it away (and if you're a nice government, just outside the territorial waters of some other country).

[wyldfire]

I've got an even better idea.

"A young healthy child well nursed, is, at a year old, a most delicious nourishing and wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked, or boiled; and I make no doubt that it will equally serve in a fricassee, or a ragout."

[AndrewKemendo]

In fact, it’s a well used strategy to use buses or other types of transportation to move undesirable people out of your area into a different area.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2017/dec/...

[tejtm]

We do have those Starlight Tours ...

[10000truths]

He's being sarcastic.

[nunyabid5655]

False

[mabbo]

I wholeheartedly appreciate your response.

Make no mistake, I'm a hippie leftist even by Canadian standards. My argument is one I like to use with more right wing friend who oppose immigration.

[pcthrowaway]

What about your hippie leftist friends who are begging for the government to pause or slow immigration (other than for refugees) right now?

[curiousllama]

This is an elite comment

[robofanatic]

> B) export those people who are a burden on our society (children, the elderly, the sick, people who enjoy EDM, you get it).

This is so ridiculous! Export where?? Isn't it what Hitler tried to do?

[mikrotikker]

Export to Britain. They're the kings subjects right? Let ol Charlie look after em out he's got enough cash.