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Save My House From Apple

270 points| madmaze | 14 years ago |savemyhousefromapple.com | reply

111 comments

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[+] VonLipwig|14 years ago|reply
I sympathise with the developers plight and this is a reason why I haven't wanted to get into App development. If your not battling people cloning your games, you have a constant axe swinging above your head that the app store may find fault with your App and remove it. You then have changing rules and requirements in the App Store..

The thing that bugs me a bit though is how the developer is asking for money. "Save my house." Its been 14 days since this revenue stream was compromised and the guy is apparently in financial trouble. This doesn't sound like Apples fault. This is a lack of financial planning.

I am by no means well off. I get by. My partner, my child and I were struck down by a bad virus last month. For 3 weeks I couldn't work, I could just about roll out of bed to get to the loo. I am a freelancer, I have no sick pay, no payment protection etc. For 3 weeks I earned nothing. My family is on a budget for the next month but we are fine. We have savings to get us through 3 months of joblessness.

If 14 days of near zero income pushes you over the edge and risks you loosing your house then you probably need a career change. That or its time to spend less and save more. For many profession's this isn't possible. Some people need several jobs to make ends meet. However, for a I expect fairly talented developer there are plenty of jobs and opportunites to get you on the right track.

[+] csomar|14 years ago|reply
As someone making a living from an App Store (though not Apples one), 14 days are enough to turn your emergency alarms. You need to know that

1- You get paid a month later. (and apparently, he is not going to for January) 2- If that's your dependable income, you'll need 3-4 months until you find a job or figure out a different revenue stream.

So if he is not getting paid for January, that's already 2 months of non-pay. But I agree on the lack of financial planning. Before jumping (and dropping from college) into this market (small products + freelancing), I saved 1 full year of expenses. Yes, you read it right, 1 full year.

My first aim is to guarantee the next year spendings. It's 70% done now (my year began on September, though). After that, I can spend/invest/save or whatever.

[+] bipolarla|14 years ago|reply
Hi Von, you are right abuout financial planning. Sadly, many live day to day or month to month. This is sometimes true of startups trying so hard to build a business from scratch. I feel for Bryan in the article. He took time to build something and allowed Apple to share in the revenue and used their forum to sell it to the public. Sadly, there are so many horror stories when a big entity is controlling markets. I know of many stories where Google sandboxes websites and they are no longer able to be in the natural search results. I also know personally of Google choosing not to allow ads. In one instance the ads were going to compete against AT&T who is one of their largest ad spenders. Is it a shock Google did not "allow" the smaller and less funded company? Ebay also knocks down and kicks out many smaller sellers. I know these large companies don't always mean hard but they many times hurt the little guy. How about in China where a site can be shut down for no reason except the government chooses they don't like it. If you are a creator you need numerous income streams and cannot rely on one company be it Google, Ebay, Microsoft's Bing, Apple or anything else. Always be on your toes and never take things for granted! This is a huge business lesson learned in the hard knocks of real business.
[+] redact207|14 years ago|reply
further, if Apple has an issue, why does begging for donations become his first option? If he's a freelancer, can't he get a short term gig? Or a short term job? Seems a bit weak...
[+] petercooper|14 years ago|reply
This is the same Apple that plans for GateKeeper to check a certificate server for blacklisted apps and developers in OS X 10.8.

Imagine not even being in the App Store and your app's mainstream customers with default settings seeing a scary warning message because your certificate was accidentally blacklisted. Coming to the HN front page later this year..? :-)

Orienting your business around the ecosystem of a corporation with an itchy trigger finger is a tricky game of dice.

[+] robomartin|14 years ago|reply
This isn't just an Apple problem. There's a disturbing trend here. All of the dominant internet companies exhibit this kind of nonsensical "evil" behavior: Google, eBay, Apple and Paypal, to name the most salient examples.

Way back when, Microsoft was openly painted by Apple (and the Apple cult followers) as being evil. Interestingly enough, Microsoft never sought to have this kind of a death grip on its users, at least not by force. And, I've never heard of MS killing-off someone's revenue stream like that. You buy their tools and develop for the platform. They don't have a say at all. That's the way it should be.

Somehow a united front needs to be organized and presented to these companies in order for them to understand that they are causing serious damage.

To say that, as entrepreneurs, businessmen and developers we don't want to see the tech landscape develop and evolve in this manner is probably an understatement.

I wonder if CNBC might be interested in doing a documentary on the damage to small businesses and entrepreneurs done by the likes of Google, Apple, eBay and Paypal? That could be an interesting angle.

[+] nkassis|14 years ago|reply
I can imagine a situation where a 20 dev shop gets closed because of something like this and they can't make payroll. There are lot of people here basing their company on an App in the app store. I'd be terrified.
[+] madmaze|14 years ago|reply
"Coming to the HN front page later this year..?"

I assume this may be a theme in the making.. I wonder if App Store like ecosystems have similar issues. I havnt heared of any in the android market, but im sure similar cases can be found.

[+] kenneth_reitz|14 years ago|reply
Apple did this to me too, without explanation. They've owed me $13,860 for over a year now.

You're 100% at their mercy.

[+] madmaze|14 years ago|reply
We should start a poll to see how common this is
[+] weaksauce|14 years ago|reply
Please elaborate on the details. This is something that should be brought to light.
[+] kubov|14 years ago|reply
--initial comment, Hello, Hacker news!

Apple software distribution system is a feudal system where, unfortunately, programmer is a peasant.

[+] evanlong|14 years ago|reply
Sounds like really poor personal finances. An individual should have at least 6 months to a year of savings so a 2-4 week outage is really no dent at all to your well being.
[+] andrewfelix|14 years ago|reply
I run my own company, and I often go into the red for months at a time. I agree, you need to account for worst case scenarios.
[+] dmazin|14 years ago|reply
Ah, so I'm guessing you understand this guy's situation entirely, allowing you to comment on his personal finances without sounding like a jackass. Otherwise, you wouldn't have posted, right?
[+] swang|14 years ago|reply
Why isn't there a Developer Relations department at Apple to handle problems like this? Apple has made billions upon billions of dollars because developers have decided it was the best environment to make money and they put their weight behind iOS/Apple, yet somehow stuff like this drops through the cracks.

I mean am I really going to feel safe quitting my job to make iOS/Mac apps if Apple can just cut off my revenue stream without recourse? This is an easy problem for Apple to fix and it'll cost them somewhere down the line where someone with the next big app decides not to chance it because he's heard that Apple may just dump you and not give any reasons why.

[+] azov|14 years ago|reply
Because they don't have to. Because they can screw you as much as they like, and you will still be developing for their platform, buying their hardware, paying for their developer program, etc. Because you have no choice - they are a monopoly in mobile space, and you can't just ignore them (while they can ignore you). Because by not being their customer you're hurting yourself more then them.

Basically, because they can.

[+] jrmg|14 years ago|reply
Why isn't there a Developer Relations department at Apple to handle problems like this?

Actually, although lots of people seem to think Apple doesn't offer contact by phone, it does:

https://developer.apple.com/contact/phone.php

Having said that, presumably these were the very people not assisting the OP. I've never called them about an App Store issue, only about account issues (problems with bank details, changing from personal to company account etc.)

[+] noisebleed|14 years ago|reply
Somewhat tangental, but this is the second post I've seen here recently that plays up the ".. and this happened on my birthday!" angle ( this being the first: http://lunduke.com/?p=2206 ).

I'm extremely sympathetic to anyone who's struggling, but seriously, why should a birthday matter in this context? You can debate Apple's app store policy, but should they be expected to factor in stuff like birthdays when they enforce it? It just seems like a cheap pity play that, for me at least, undermines whatever point is being made.

[+] ojilles|14 years ago|reply
That looks like the same guy?
[+] oleganza|14 years ago|reply
AppStore is not the only way to sell the software. And I don't get why instead of asking for donation he didn't put a "buy button" right there, on the story page?

I'd rather buy his stuff than simply donate him money. This way it would be better for both of us.

Instead he asks for money "for free" and does not provide a direct link to buy his app. This looks really strange.

[+] jasonlotito|14 years ago|reply
"Everyone who donates will receive a free copy of my video game (2299 : THE GAME) and my visual app development tool (Illumination Software Creator). Both run on Linux, Windows and Mac. I'll also throw in the first two issues of my comic book (Road-Sign Hank)."
[+] SeoxyS|14 years ago|reply
I donated some cash because I feel bad, but I hope you've learnt your lesson: Do not base your entire livelyhood at the mercy of anybody but yourself, and especially not a huge corporation.

This also goes for anybody who takes out a mortgage they can't afford. Don't ever get any debt or create any expenses you will no longer be able to pay if you got fired tomorrow.

[+] gfodor|14 years ago|reply
Let's be honest here: is not a startup based upon putting your entire livelihood at the mercy of a few small actors? That first customer, that first investor, that first employee, that first acquisition offer? Of course, we take measures to try to minimize the impact any one party, deal, or decision has on our overall success, but the fact is that there are often choke points in building a business or company where you do have to put all your eggs in one or two baskets. Not sure if that's the case here, but it's certainly not a hard and fast rule that you always have to avoid taking "all-in" risks. (Though maybe that's more the case if you have a family to feed and insufficient savings to avoid the fall...)
[+] jowiar|14 years ago|reply
"Do not base your entire livelyhood at the mercy of anybody but yourself, and especially not a huge corporation."

This seems to apply to a vast, vast majority of the population... In our little tech/entrepreneur bubble, we're the exception, not the rule, in that we can generate income largely by ourselves.

[+] neebz|14 years ago|reply
I know the job market sucks but I've been to many countries and if there's one industry with tons of demand and limited supply; it's software development.

it's hard for me to accept that an iPhone developer is down to live on donations in the current job climate.

[+] eridius|14 years ago|reply
Apple provides a free storefront for Mac apps. It is by no means the only way to purchase Mac apps. A glitch occurs that removes a piece of software from the free Apple-provided storefront.

...

I'm having a really hard time figuring out the part here where Apple is some evil entity depriving a developer of their livelihood. Sure, this sucks, but it's not like nobody can buy your software. There's plenty of Mac software out there that isn't even on the Mac app store to begin with, so I'm having a hard time figuring out why this developer is having such a huge problem that he needs to resort to begging for donations.

[+] suresk|14 years ago|reply
That sucks, and I hope you get things sorted out. My apps are just for extra cash, but I'd still be pretty upset if I were in your situation.

Unfortunately, this highlights the drawbacks of relying on a third-party for all of your income, especially when the relationship is one-sided. Apple's App Store is an incredible opportunity for a lot of developers, but for the vast majority, Apple has very little accountability to you.

This is no different than the people who build a business around AdSense, only to be terminated and receive the silent treatment at some point - which itself is nothing new, as this has been going on with affiliate programs since I got involved with them in the mid-90's. If I've learned one thing, it's this: Don't ever build your company around another company unless you have a really good personal relationship with them or a strong, fair contract.

[+] leephillips|14 years ago|reply
They've screwed you again: your donation slider doesn't work on the iPhone. Best of luck to you.
[+] Yaggo|14 years ago|reply
Just FYI, iOS happily supports <input type=range>.
[+] rbanffy|14 years ago|reply
What bothers me is the apparent lack of accountability. Apple pulls an app off the app store any time under rules so complicated and vague this power becomes completely discretionary. Or does it by mistake. I'd like to see the process Apple uses to ensure a rogue censor will not remove an app from the store because they don't like it, its publisher or got paid by a competitor.

The worst part is that Apple isn't even the worst offender around.

[+] michaelhoffman|14 years ago|reply
I'm amazed anyone decides to develop for the Apple app stores. This is not the first time this sort of thing has happened, by a long shot. Due diligence means not putting all your eggs in the Apple basket.
[+] narad|14 years ago|reply
You are using Paypal for donations. There have been many horror stories on HN about people doing a donation drive and getting accounts closed by Paypal citing ToS.
[+] rbarooah|14 years ago|reply
It's definitely a risk. You can actually ask PayPal proactively to review your site to see whether your use of the word 'Donate' is acceptable for them. I did for one of my sites and they were very quick to respond. This still gives you no guarantees that they won't change their minds later, but it does at least give some reassurance about their current thinking.
[+] mahyarm|14 years ago|reply
But isn't he 'selling' something (software) in return for those 'donations'?
[+] jiggy2011|14 years ago|reply
I think stuff like this is one of the reasons that there aren't many serious big ticket apps on the store (at ones that aren't also available elsewhere).

If I were to develop for iPhone there is no way I would invest serious R&D time and money into something with the risk that this could happen. More likely I'd just build a bunch of $1-5 apps and have them suddenly flatlining either because of this or user apathy factored into my plans.

I wouldn't trust the arbitrary mercies of any large corporation to put food on my (hypothetical) kid's table.

[+] micahflee|14 years ago|reply
I wonder if he's planning on figuring out how to make money from software sales in a way that doesn't involve Apple. They're total asshats when it comes to things like this.
[+] AndyKelley|14 years ago|reply
Note that if you donate money to this guy, you're indirectly encouraging apple's behaviour.
[+] cageface|14 years ago|reply
The writing is on the wall. The smart way to make money in the app stores is consulting for somebody else.
[+] Valdemar|14 years ago|reply
And this is why app-stores with single-sided and super-rigid rules are a BAD thing. They operate as a black box, with you having NO way of knowing why, how, if, when or what is going to happen. This is why Chrome store, Windows Store and the App store and all the others are just bad for business (in general). If they decide they don't like it, then you're fucked!

You just DON'T trust a single entity to handle all your sales and finances while they have ABSOLUTE power to terminate their service any time they want. Have a backup, sell it on your own web site.. oh no you can't because this is Apple...