Im guessing you'll have two categories of tier 1 support:
- Built-in tier 1 support.
- Tier 1 support through the optional LLVM backend.
If they already have tier 1 support for an architecture, I don't see why they'd loose that support when they make the LLVM backend an optional dependency?
And as Andrew writes in the proposal, this way might provide a path for better support for more obscure architectures. I would happily work on a backend for Zig for some interesting processor architecture. No way I will ever contribute to LLVM. Working with C++ in not something I'll ever do to fun
LLVM just works well on the front that clang uses, after that, llvm itself is a wild beast full of worms, which is becoming more and more painful to work with if you are a language creator/mantainer, A lot of untested paths, and hidden bugs that zig has hit before... many times.
It will NOT reimplement everything, if you read the proposal, it's in favour of changing the LLVM dependency (the libs) not dropping LLVM IR generation, this will come with performance regression since now will be up to the team to get the correct IR, and making decisions LLVM IR generation does already in LLVM
The problem is that clang is being dropped, which means, unless we have a new C++ front made in zig (a-la AroCC for C) we are gonna suffer quite a bit for projects using C++ with zig.
One of the mantras for Andrew Kelly has been "do not use Zig in production" until it hits 1.0.
People know that, but it's difficult to avoid using it for real things once you've tried it and it works :D.
I haven't done that with Zig, but with Kotlin things like serialization/coroutines/kotest/KAPT (it was the same feeling: oh this stuff is "Experimental" but so cool, I can't do real Kotlin without them!!)... well yeah, I spent many hours rewriting stuff due to that, and totally acknowledge that was on me.
Just wanted to point out that this is just a proposal, so if enough people voice their opinion, which many have already done, I am sure the core team will adjust their approach.
audunw|2 years ago
Im guessing you'll have two categories of tier 1 support: - Built-in tier 1 support. - Tier 1 support through the optional LLVM backend.
If they already have tier 1 support for an architecture, I don't see why they'd loose that support when they make the LLVM backend an optional dependency?
And as Andrew writes in the proposal, this way might provide a path for better support for more obscure architectures. I would happily work on a backend for Zig for some interesting processor architecture. No way I will ever contribute to LLVM. Working with C++ in not something I'll ever do to fun
frmdstryr|2 years ago
MuffinFlavored|2 years ago
To what benefit? Isn't this a waste of resources?
delphLonepaw|2 years ago
It will NOT reimplement everything, if you read the proposal, it's in favour of changing the LLVM dependency (the libs) not dropping LLVM IR generation, this will come with performance regression since now will be up to the team to get the correct IR, and making decisions LLVM IR generation does already in LLVM
The problem is that clang is being dropped, which means, unless we have a new C++ front made in zig (a-la AroCC for C) we are gonna suffer quite a bit for projects using C++ with zig.
brucethemoose2|2 years ago
harerazer|2 years ago
brabel|2 years ago
People know that, but it's difficult to avoid using it for real things once you've tried it and it works :D.
I haven't done that with Zig, but with Kotlin things like serialization/coroutines/kotest/KAPT (it was the same feeling: oh this stuff is "Experimental" but so cool, I can't do real Kotlin without them!!)... well yeah, I spent many hours rewriting stuff due to that, and totally acknowledge that was on me.
TUSF|2 years ago
janpolak|2 years ago
unknown|2 years ago
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