This is not the first time orcas have shown an awareness of us in boats: through the second half of the 1800s orcas in Australia actually helped whalers hunt baleen whales: herding the prey, and even grabbing ropes in their mouths to help haul, in exchange for the most valuable (to them) parts of the carcasses.
Old Tom, one of the most helpful orcas, died in 1930. His skeleton is on display at a museum, and the wear marks from the ropes are visible on his teeth.
Porphyrios harassed ships in the waters of Constantinople for over fifty
years,[7] though not continuously since it at times disappeared for lengthy
periods of time.[4] It most frequently appeared in the Bosporus Strait.[1]
Porphyrios made no distinctions in regard to which ships it attacked,
recorded as having attacked fishing vessels, merchant ships and warships.[1]
Many ships were sunk by Porphyrios, and its mere reputation terrified the
crews of many more; ships often took detours to go around the waters where
the whale most commonly swam.[4] Emperor Justinian I (r. 527–565), perplexed
by the whale attacks and wishing to keep sea routes safe,[11] made it a
matter of great concern to capture Porphyrios, though he was unable to devise
a means through which to do this.[1][4][12]
Died in 1930 when a whaler tried to bring the carcass in early, before Tom had his share (there was a storm approaching). Tom lost teeth grabbing the tow rope and washed up deceased with oral abscesses some time later.
This was after most of the pod of killer whales had disappeared - thought maybe hunted down in Norway. Whaling is fascinating history. But it is very sad.
This American Life just did a segment where the experts were very skeptical of both the theories presented in this article - that the first encounters near Spain were caused by a traumatic event of a matriarch, and also that orca pods would communicate with each other to spread the behavior.
The theory presented in that segment was the first orcas are sort of like rowdy teenagers participating in a fad, and the newer event near Scotland was something of a coincidence.
It’s a good segment regardless of what you think, and the first half of the episode was one of the better reports of ChatGPT I have heard, so also of interest to people here. The name of the episode is “Greetings, People of Earth.”
Orcas do go in for fads (look up 'orca salmon hats') but experts oftentimes dismiss things as coincidence because they don't have a theory and don't want to look stupid by speculating. When I was growing up reports of ball lightning were dismissed as hallucinations or optical illusions until video and spectrographic technology advanced sufficiently to capture the phenomenon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning
The brilliant American Life segment with a juxtaposition of the “Greetings, People of Earth” story with reporting on ChatGPT and the Orcas creates a bricolage that may spur thoughts around questions related to our ability to recognize non-human intelligence.
Clearly orcas have culture that spreads. It’s a bit silly to speculate about patient zero being a matriarch as there’s zero evidence, likewise until a mechanism of communication is known saying it was or was not communicated between pods without evidence isn’t reasonable.
I've never believed that orcas have always left humans alone. I think they began leaving humans alone when commercial whaling took off and they witnessed first hand how dangerous humans can be to whales. Maybe that generational memory is now fading.
Yeah I know the argument that humans are too bony and taste bad, but how would they know we taste bad if they never even take a nibble to taste test us? These are very intelligent mammals, they should be curious about how we taste. Am I to believe that sharks are more inquisitive and willing to experiment with food than orcas?
It may be retribution. Maybe a yacht propeller maimed or killed an important orca, an elder or a child, and now they want retribution. Or maybe it's just a fun thing to do, or a teenager right of passage thing. Or some combination. It's fun to speculate!
While I don't much care about the yachts and find the fact that the behaviour is spreading fascinating, my fear out of all this is people will start hurting the whales to try to get them to stop.
there is bound to be some kind of response if this remains a trend; and given that some of these boats are having their fin/bulb keels seemingly targeted by these animals means that the crews of the boats are in some greater level of mortal peril than is already provided by the hobby..
I feel bad for the animals, but sailing doesn't seem to be going anywhere as a global interest and boats produced are getting to be more and more fragile in the search for performance. I imagine that it's only a matter of time until there will be a violent reaction when a crew feels that they're in mortal danger -- all I can hope for is that it produces a recognition of danger that also sweeps through the Orca community as a trend and they start to avoid yachts for the sake of both parties.
When I watch the videos I just kind of think it's like watching a cat scratching themselves and rubbing up against anything with an edge on my desk. Wholly benign behavior that is a detriment simply due to their scale compared to us.
I totally agree. There's a part of me going 'hell yeah go orcas', and another part knowing that in a war, humans are gonna win, and I don't like what that means for orcas.
Yacht is a loaded term. A 30ft sailboat is a yacht. Given the crazy housing prices, a lot of people are buying sailboats and living in them because it is way cheaper than renting.
Yacht does not mean wealthy. I am firmly middle class. My family is planning to move onto a sailboat next year.
Or maybe the orcas will restrict their boat-ramming, people-eating behavior to refugee boats. The powers that be will be happy, just as long as they leave the billion-carrying submarines alone.
Orcas are cultural animals that are similar to us in that fads are a thing for them. A while back they had a fad where they'd kill a salmon and wear it as a hat. I think this is a fad, they're having fun, it'll pass.
The most amazing part is how clever the orcas were while trying to avoid capture. The young and their mothers dove down deep and then swam towards a river where they surfaced while the other adults swam along the surface to lead the boats away. It’s hard to imagine a group of humans coming up with a better plan, and it’s hard to imagine how to execute that plan without some kind of language.
The orcas are attacking small sailboats, which tend to have less of an environmental impact… less engine use, quiet, fewer people on board, very small scale fishing (if at all). It’s weird to be rooting against this sort of ship when cruise ships and trawlers are the real problem - and also pretty difficult to attack. Will you count it as a success if people favor larger powerboats over small sailboats?
But never forget that Orcas aren't called Killer Whales because they're "Whales That Kill", but because they're "Killers Of Whales".
Orcas kill other whales, sometimes for fun not for food. And they have such a reputation in the cetacean kingdom as brutal murderous assholes, that whales will help seals escape from them, to their own detriment/risk.
So yeah. In Humans vs. Orcas, it's hard not to root for the orcas, especially considering how we've treated them in captivity for the last 100 years. But on a more broader mammalian scale, we're both kind of the intelligent assholes of the animal kingdom.
Yes I know orcas and sperm whales are different, but its weird that this is suggested a new behavior in general. And not just a new counting of something that has been going on for centuries.
This comment is strange. Sperm whale from Moby dick's era routinely flight back when harpooned.
Today's killer whale behavior is clearly new, and nearly the only violent behavior seen in any whale in a hundred years. .. and with multiple recent reports, it is a new trend.
A single whaler in 1820 versus a spate of events since a few months back seem rather unrelated, orcas have not been ramming boats all over for the last two centuries.
Though I guess it’s possible that they’re also avenging or preemptively defending themselves.
Orcas haven't been ramming boats for decades. Now, all of a sudden, we're seeing the behavior crop up all over the place. This is new behavior that is being communicated and taught.
Imagine when they discover that there are calorie sources aboard the ships. Orcas are known to eat terrestrial mammals such as swimming deer and moose. They've been observed hunting swimming dogs.
Despite all the evidence we have of history repeating itself, people constantly want to convince themselves that they are somehow separate from the past and “this time is different”.
I'm a complete layperson but reading articles lately it seems that the whale population in general is recovering, due to regulations and a halted whale hunting.
So could this be a side-effect of a larger whale population? More whales, higher statistical probability to attack some human boat. There are after all thousands of human controlled vessels in the sea at any time.
Ancient texts indicate that these were monsters to be feared, so maybe back in ancient times, before whale hunting became efficient, this was a frequent danger.
A friend recently reminded me that whales attacking boats is precisely how The Swarm[0] starts. I don't want to spoil the book here but it's among the best I've ever read, and might be of interest to anyone here who's into SciFi.
Humans are jerks. Sonar makes orcas bleed from their ears.
Orcas are also used as circus animals (i.e.: SeaWorld), and some of them get so aggravated that they commit suicide by bumping their heads against the pool walls.
Orcas should attack more often, I fully approve of it.
In fact, we should help orcas multiply in numbers so that the yacht enthusiasts get displaced and leave the sea to the creatures doing a free service for the environment.
It's a bit surprising that something like this didn't start happening sooner. It's not as if one can expect to mosey through the territory of large intelligent land predators completely unassailed.
Just add a low voltage electric fence to 2 plates glued underwater at port and starboard. Salt water conducts, also Orca's conduct - some small current flow that will be repellant to the Orca's, but not harmful.
They do this to repel carp swimming upriver. one of those, with proper voltage and current limiting should be felt by an orca, but not harm the orca. A little experimentation will find a safe repellant level.
[+] [-] gcanyon|2 years ago|reply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_whales_of_Eden,_New_Sou...
Old Tom, one of the most helpful orcas, died in 1930. His skeleton is on display at a museum, and the wear marks from the ropes are visible on his teeth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Tom_(orca)
[+] [-] epilys|2 years ago|reply
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porphyrios_(whale)
Porphyrios harassed ships in the waters of Constantinople for over fifty years,[7] though not continuously since it at times disappeared for lengthy periods of time.[4] It most frequently appeared in the Bosporus Strait.[1] Porphyrios made no distinctions in regard to which ships it attacked, recorded as having attacked fishing vessels, merchant ships and warships.[1] Many ships were sunk by Porphyrios, and its mere reputation terrified the crews of many more; ships often took detours to go around the waters where the whale most commonly swam.[4] Emperor Justinian I (r. 527–565), perplexed by the whale attacks and wishing to keep sea routes safe,[11] made it a matter of great concern to capture Porphyrios, though he was unable to devise a means through which to do this.[1][4][12]
[+] [-] mustacheemperor|2 years ago|reply
This was after most of the pod of killer whales had disappeared - thought maybe hunted down in Norway. Whaling is fascinating history. But it is very sad.
[+] [-] IvyMike|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|2 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] j-bos|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] swid|2 years ago|reply
The theory presented in that segment was the first orcas are sort of like rowdy teenagers participating in a fad, and the newer event near Scotland was something of a coincidence.
It’s a good segment regardless of what you think, and the first half of the episode was one of the better reports of ChatGPT I have heard, so also of interest to people here. The name of the episode is “Greetings, People of Earth.”
[+] [-] anigbrowl|2 years ago|reply
Orcas do go in for fads (look up 'orca salmon hats') but experts oftentimes dismiss things as coincidence because they don't have a theory and don't want to look stupid by speculating. When I was growing up reports of ball lightning were dismissed as hallucinations or optical illusions until video and spectrographic technology advanced sufficiently to capture the phenomenon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning
[+] [-] _fat_santa|2 years ago|reply
That sounds more amazing to me than the theory of the traumatic event, an Ocra equivalent to a TikTok trend.
[+] [-] adrianhon|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mclide|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] colechristensen|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hoten|2 years ago|reply
Edit: ok Ira was sick and it's mentioned halfway through
[+] [-] whalesalad|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mcpackieh|2 years ago|reply
Yeah I know the argument that humans are too bony and taste bad, but how would they know we taste bad if they never even take a nibble to taste test us? These are very intelligent mammals, they should be curious about how we taste. Am I to believe that sharks are more inquisitive and willing to experiment with food than orcas?
[+] [-] ceejayoz|2 years ago|reply
Maybe they're intelligent enough to recognize our intelligence, and don't want to attack other intelligent beings?
[+] [-] solumunus|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wouldbecouldbe|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] javajosh|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fallingfrog|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] SketchySeaBeast|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] serf|2 years ago|reply
I feel bad for the animals, but sailing doesn't seem to be going anywhere as a global interest and boats produced are getting to be more and more fragile in the search for performance. I imagine that it's only a matter of time until there will be a violent reaction when a crew feels that they're in mortal danger -- all I can hope for is that it produces a recognition of danger that also sweeps through the Orca community as a trend and they start to avoid yachts for the sake of both parties.
When I watch the videos I just kind of think it's like watching a cat scratching themselves and rubbing up against anything with an edge on my desk. Wholly benign behavior that is a detriment simply due to their scale compared to us.
[+] [-] mmanfrin|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jml78|2 years ago|reply
Yacht does not mean wealthy. I am firmly middle class. My family is planning to move onto a sailboat next year.
[+] [-] pfdietz|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] raziel2701|2 years ago|reply
Orcas are cultural animals that are similar to us in that fads are a thing for them. A while back they had a fad where they'd kill a salmon and wear it as a hat. I think this is a fad, they're having fun, it'll pass.
These headlines are so fun!
[+] [-] Pulcinella|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fallingfrog|2 years ago|reply
https://youtu.be/-zXMxBtBPJo
The most amazing part is how clever the orcas were while trying to avoid capture. The young and their mothers dove down deep and then swam towards a river where they surfaced while the other adults swam along the surface to lead the boats away. It’s hard to imagine a group of humans coming up with a better plan, and it’s hard to imagine how to execute that plan without some kind of language.
[+] [-] dang|2 years ago|reply
'Scary moment' as orcas disrupt ocean boat race - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36452464 - June 2023 (89 comments)
Orcas sink 3 boats in Europe and appear to teach others to do the same. But why? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36006861 - May 2023 (21 comments)
Orcas are breaking rudders off boats in Europe - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32593799 - Aug 2022 (239 comments)
Killer whales are 'attacking' sailboats near Europe's coast - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32540473 - Aug 2022 (9 comments)
Orcas striking sailing boats in the Straits of Gibraltar - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24460126 - Sept 2020 (154 comments)
[+] [-] dmvdoug|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cowthulhu|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] deanCommie|2 years ago|reply
But never forget that Orcas aren't called Killer Whales because they're "Whales That Kill", but because they're "Killers Of Whales".
Orcas kill other whales, sometimes for fun not for food. And they have such a reputation in the cetacean kingdom as brutal murderous assholes, that whales will help seals escape from them, to their own detriment/risk.
So yeah. In Humans vs. Orcas, it's hard not to root for the orcas, especially considering how we've treated them in captivity for the last 100 years. But on a more broader mammalian scale, we're both kind of the intelligent assholes of the animal kingdom.
[+] [-] sh34r|2 years ago|reply
As the great George Carlin said: the planet isn’t going anywhere, we are!
[+] [-] Scarblac|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ethbr0|2 years ago|reply
Why should the richest humans sail on personal gilded craft?!
Down with yachts! The hour of revolution is at hand!
[+] [-] fasthands9|2 years ago|reply
The inspiration for Moby Dick, one of the most read books in English, was based on a ship sunk my sperm whales: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essex_(whaleship)
Yes I know orcas and sperm whales are different, but its weird that this is suggested a new behavior in general. And not just a new counting of something that has been going on for centuries.
[+] [-] koheripbal|2 years ago|reply
Today's killer whale behavior is clearly new, and nearly the only violent behavior seen in any whale in a hundred years. .. and with multiple recent reports, it is a new trend.
[+] [-] masklinn|2 years ago|reply
Though I guess it’s possible that they’re also avenging or preemptively defending themselves.
[+] [-] echelon|2 years ago|reply
Imagine when they discover that there are calorie sources aboard the ships. Orcas are known to eat terrestrial mammals such as swimming deer and moose. They've been observed hunting swimming dogs.
[+] [-] bequanna|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] INTPenis|2 years ago|reply
So could this be a side-effect of a larger whale population? More whales, higher statistical probability to attack some human boat. There are after all thousands of human controlled vessels in the sea at any time.
Ancient texts indicate that these were monsters to be feared, so maybe back in ancient times, before whale hunting became efficient, this was a frequent danger.
[+] [-] iambateman|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mannyv|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] codethief|2 years ago|reply
[0]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Swarm_(Sch%C3%A4tzing_no...
[+] [-] 29athrowaway|2 years ago|reply
Humans are jerks. Sonar makes orcas bleed from their ears.
Orcas are also used as circus animals (i.e.: SeaWorld), and some of them get so aggravated that they commit suicide by bumping their heads against the pool walls.
Orcas should attack more often, I fully approve of it.
In fact, we should help orcas multiply in numbers so that the yacht enthusiasts get displaced and leave the sea to the creatures doing a free service for the environment.
[+] [-] fho|2 years ago|reply
I somehow imagine an orca in top hat, kindly suggesting that he will continue to ram other yachts if some conditions are not met :-)
[+] [-] kitsunesoba|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] aurizon|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] SkipperCat|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] floehopper|2 years ago|reply
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/167105