I mean this in the nicest way possible, but this is one of the most frustrating things I've ever read, as well as many of the comments echoing the author. I do commend you for posting this publicly, that takes guts, but you have to do something about it. If I were your CEO, I'd insist you take a very long break, right now.
You realize you're going to die, in the best case, 70 to 80 years from now, yeah? Likely much sooner with the mental state you just described. This is all very blunt, and probably harsh, but my point is life is short and you only get one shot. I can't believe you'd subject yourself to this, all for a startup, or for the startup lifestyle. I do not mean to belittle what you are passionate about, or the time and effort you've clearly put into your company, but there is more to life than this.
Take a break. Take a very long break (I'm talking a year at least). Go travel, go home, go somewhere, but stop slaving away and sitting in your room for days at a time. Go be around other people, be it family or friends. Find love, and love yourself. You can always pursue your entrepreneurial dreams after you're happy (and your company will benefit from your happiness).
The startup lifestyle is an incredible journey, I'm on a third myself, but if I felt even remotely close to what you just described, I'd quit in an instant. It's not worth that to me, not even close. I'd prefer to be happy, love, be loved, and work in a coffee shop for the rest of my days before I'd trade it for being depressed in the way you describe.
You owe it to yourself to be happy, so quit wasting time.
Thank you. I wish parents taught their kids to 'know when to quit' more often. I've read stories from founders who missed the birth of their children, left their dying parents, sacrificed everything important for some dumb startup that sells shoelaces or soap or diapers. It's one thing to be persistent and another to be delusional. And the best way to find out which one you are, is when you take a step back, clear your mind for a week or two and have a good look at yourself when you're not stimulated on coffee and twitter.
I think this is good advice, but summed up better would be know when to take breaks (maybe 4 a year). Use the depressive episodes as an indicator that your mind and body need a holiday.
He wants it. He wants it so bad. But even when he puts in the work, has the drive, and tries so much success isn't there.
This is the flip side to every multi million dollar exits of some social widget or TechCrunch rah rah bullshit or the stock buyouts of a collapsed firm.
This the reality in the tech game. Not everyone wins. I know this, I felt this, I felt the highs and lows.
But something isn't working. Many point out to trying too much, too hard, psychological, depression, so on so forth. These comments here ring a bit hollow because they dismiss what Zak already wrote. He is a smart cookie, he knows the sickness, he knows the cure. The only remedy is change. Not only change but be brave enough to also accept change. The metaphorical come-to-Jesus moment is nigh.
Then take five minutes and really think about this and see this for what it is. This post has been read over 9000 times--almost a third of all tech workers in the city of San Francisco--and rallied over 80 comments with people even arguing whether suggestions are mean sprited. Meaning: you are not alone.
Others get this, others empathize. Because we are the community that wakes up every morning and want it bad too. That in itself is pretty amazing.
What's the real solution? No one can give you that. It's going to be personal. You're a startup vet. Deep down you know what to do. Success is not a straight line, it's meandering, it's failures, it just is.
Well said. Everyone's formula is different based on their internal and external support structures. I do feel the qualities in a potential solution are more common, than not.
1) It starts and ends with building and maintaining a positive, healthy inner-dialogue. That is the single biggest thing that drags everyone down.
2) Be a friend to yourself. Be a friend to your future self. It's as much about valuing your own journey and time as it is trying to figure it all out. It's not all supposed to be figured out. We have to figure out enough to keep moving, inward, onward, upward.
3) Change is entirely the issue. Instead of changing for the sake of change, we don't pay enough attention to the subtle, but huge fact of whether we're changing for the better.
4) Experiences are worthless if positive lessons aren't learnt. It doesn't matter what anyone does or doesn't do, this axiom I've found to be true anywhere I look. When one gets caught up so haphazardly collecting experiences and not paying attention to "Have I stopped learning or growing positively", we start feeding the weeds as much as the garden.
I don't want to detract from what you wrote by saying much else. I agree with the rest of what you wrote :)
I don't want to be pedantic, but this is not depression. Depression is 6 months without a single high point. Depression is not a roller coaster- there are no ups. Just down. For a long fucking time. I've been depressed off and on for the past 10 years- about 5 depressive periods, each 6-18 months.
I don't want to minimize the OP's struggles- he most certainly has some kind of mood disorder (possibly rapid-cycling bipolar disorder or RBD). There may be depressive episodes involved, but I don't think the word "depression" should be used unless it's referring to Major Depressive Disorder or one of its close siblings.
Again, I'm trying hard to not be pedantic. It just frustrates me when people think that depression is something you can get over, or that will get better in a day or a week. That's just not the case.
Just want to point out that mild to moderate[1] depression respond well to cognitive behaviour therapy. A typical course lasts 8 weeks, but can be up to 14 weeks.
Severe depression can respond well to CBT, especially if there's other stuff (other forms of long term therapy, sometimes medication) in place.
I only say this because it's important for people who feel they are depressed to know that they're not necessarily going to be out of work for months or on weird medications for years. (Indeed, there's plenty of research showing that work is useful and not working is harmful.)
I agree there's a big difference between a carefully crafted course of therapy and an attitude of "just get over it" / "pull your socks up" / "stiff upper lip".
[1] Mild and moderate are not trivial; they can have big impacts on the life of the person with them and the people around them.
Major episodic depression only has to last two weeks or so to be a clinical episode, but what I read in between the lines is a general dysthymia punctuated by some nasty episodes. But I am not a clinician. :)
I am sympathetic both to your comment, and those replying to it. I think what this suggests is that modern psychiatry does not have a rich enough understanding of the enormous variety of mood disorders involving depressed states. If it did, we'd probably have less confusing names for them.
I don't think one can say he obviously has a mood disorder. I have been running my own business for 8 years, and I can tell you while it isn't the same thing, it is tough. There are times when you get tired and you just want to lie down and rest but you can't.
It can be brutal sometimes. And we all have episodes. Sometimes I will lose a few days to one. But you stand back up and soldier through as soon as you can.
I have worked for other people and I have worked for myself, and this is something I only have experienced while self-employed. It is the flip side of being master of one's own destiny--- that is a heavy burden to bear sometimes.
I have never become suicidal or anything due to being self-employed. I HAVE had episodes that have cost me projects, money, time, and all sorts of other things.
This isn't something that can be medicated away. Even vacations don't help that much. It just requires constantly assessing balance in addition to everything else.....
I've struggled with it on & off for about 20 years. In the last 3 years I've found Zoloft works remarkable well for me. I'd tried other SSRIs in the past but didn't get much out of them.
Also, for the fatigue, my psych diagnosed me with adrenal fatigue and put me on some vitamins and supplements. I have never felt more energetic in my life. Adrenal fatigue is a common side effect of stress and my doctor says it's really common among entrepreneurs.
Mood stabilizers are not an appropriate first(SSRI), second(tricyclic), or even third line(MAOI) treatment for depression.
Your idea that you need to be sad to be happy is common among people who suffer from depression. But being depressed isn't 'part of the roller coaster'. You most certainly can have the highs without the lows...except if you're on mood stabilizers which work wonders at taking away both.
What's most concerning to me is that you credit your depression with so much of your accomplishments and motivation. There is absolutely no honor in suffering. That's just you buying in to a narrative. I feel happy when I've accomplished something. Other days I feel moderately happy and driven to accomplish something. No depression necessary.
And yes, I suffered from severe depression for years but would prefer not to discuss it publicly ;).
As someone who has been in the same place, I agree completely. My reaction to SSRIs was first a minor euphoria (just bubbly but a bit numb) and ever since then I have been, well, normal.
Zak, what you're saying is true, up to a certain point. Life has lows, because sometimes, it just fucking sucks. However, you don't and can't see the difference between a low and depression. They are worlds apart. Please, please, give medicine another chance.
What I have found is that you need to separate your personal worth from your startup/professional worth. Do not derive your personal identity from your startup. Although it is easier said than done, but you don't have a choice.
Are you doing anything outside of your startup? Like learning a new language, getting into Art/Movie clubs or travelling?
Good advice. It's amazing how we manage to convince ourselves that we arent human, and forget that we need to move around, smell, feel and see new things, talk to other people, eat relaxed meals, walk around, etc. We are animals, and I mean that in a good way. Only a small part of our brain is "rational"... Make sure you keep the rest of it happy too!
Seconded - while a founder pretty much lives and breathes startup, having a retreat once so often helps great not only in de-stressing, it grounds you and realigns yourself to the world.
Some times when ya got a memory leak you just gotta reboot the comp and start fresh and clean. Good luck from Palo Alto, CA.
I'm in the same boat, and honestly it is comforting to see things like this. I feel like seeing that others are in the same place and struggle with the same things makes me feel like I can get over it too.
I do almost the exact same things as well - massive weight gain, HUGE sleep problems (to the point where I end up going to sleep as the sunrise, sleeping all day), lack of exercise, avoiding friends/gatherings, etc. I haven't left my apartment in 4 days now.
All of this while running a semi-successful (to the point where it pays my bills) consumer facing service company. It is difficult. It's difficult when I can't bring myself to answer the phone, call someone back, or give them an update on an order.
I have history of severe mental illness in my family, and it is actually a bit of a motivator to think of them. The family member in particular literally has spent 10-12 years trying to have a normal life while sleeping 12-18 hours a day, heavily medicated, in and out of hospitals (easily half the year in the hospital, for the past 15+ years), and 100+ ECT treatments. I don't want to be that. I don't want to get that far, and it pushes me to pick up that damn phone or send that email. I know that is a bit twisted, but it works for me. I don't want to hit that low. Oddly enough, any time I've ever seriously contemplated suicide, I've stopped precisely because I know what it would do to this person - I can't imagine bringing that much pain to my family and making them go through that. I don't know if they could handle it. I've had the unfortunate experience of walking in on a suicide attempt and driving their blood covered body to the hospital, and I know the way I felt there is nothing I would ever put someone through, no matter how much I wanted to.
I also have literally zero interest in talking about it - which is tough, but I know the first reaction from my family would be medication, and I absolutely refuse.
I'm rambling now, but that's probably good. Interesting what you'll say on a throwaway that you'd never dare with your name attached.
why even use a throwaway? I don't understand why people do this. It seems very ego-centric to think people really really care/judge you if you post something like this. People are mostly preoccupied with themselves - they'll think about your troubles for a day, but not a minute more.
I've often read that is a correlation between bipolar and starting up a company: "the highs are higher, the lows are lower." (Which tends to cause which is academic.)
Here's what I've discovered: the highs are far more dangerous than the lows. The highs are good, whether they're based on real-world success, or your invisible fuel, the die-hard belief in what you're pursuing. You need those highs: milk them for all their worth.
But what goes up, must come down. Whether based on a real setback, or a stray negative thought, it doesn't take much to send you back down to earth, or straight through to hell. When the confidence evaporates, suddenly those unpleasant realities you were dismissing all hit you at once, and it's too much to deal with.
Everything you mentioned is great for riding out depression: sleep, a good meal, exercise, relaxation. You've got the treatment covered quite well. But after you bounce back, pay attention to that "winning" feeling, and work on moderating it to just the level you want, so that it can burn for longer, and you have less far to fall. Keep spending time on basic human needs, even when you're on top and you feel capable of 18-hour days.
Ideally, you want a steady engine, not bursts of up and down. But those will still happen sometimes; roll with it, forgive yourself, ride it out, and keep moving. Good luck!
(This is just a bit of awareness I picked up about myself; your mileage may vary.)
1. Eat slow burning carbs. This has the double effect of forcing you to eat slower[ie you will eat less] and giving you a longer lasting energy.
2. Eat foods that will enhance dopamine: banana, avocado, almond nuts, ginseng, tangerine, red clover.
3. Keep away from food you are allergy too.
4. 10 minutes of exercise can get endorphins pumping but for a good kick, look for like 20mins. [You might struggle to get your first 10mins in but push through]
5. Give friends a call[maybe even by cam], better yet visit them.
6. Go get three massages[consecutive days] or ask a friend to give you a hand massage.
7. Cinnamon and Honey Tea. Mix a teaspoon of cinnamon and honey in hot water[about a cup]. Cinnamon and Honey both have anti-bacterial properties and strengthen the immune system.
I concur that diet and general physical well-being, as well as social interactions, do indeed matter very much, and apparently heavily influence in often not obvious ways our mood and outlook.
I really respect you for taking the leap and talking about it. This is not an easy decision to make, particularly for folks like me who trend towards stoicism, even at the best of times.
It can be excrutiatingly painful to talk about that which everyone knows, but keeps quiet. In doing so, you not only help yourself resolve your issues, but also allow those who come after you to get a more honest lay of the land, and more ably deal with the challenges that await them.
this. psychiatric issues, in whatever form they may present, are (a) not really diagnosable from a blog post and (b) often treatable and result in a good quality of life. go and seek professional help. get a referral from a medical professional, not friends or family.
Stop drinking and any recreational drugs immediately.
You need to be having fun doing your startup or you won't be able to succeed and should do something else. So if you're spending most of your time writing code, try to make it fun again. If you can't then I recommend the following:
Go and get a physical job for a few months, preferably somewhere rural. It will remind you what real hard work is like, get you physically fit and give you the satisfaction of having achieved something tangible at the end of your day. Come back when you're ready.
I like this advice (physical work) and its been in the back of my mind for a while as a way to take a break from the continuous onslaught of pressure to 'keep up' with developments in my craft and to give me time to consolidate what I have learnt in the last 15 year sprint.
One of the things that has helped me when I had more than normal of these episodes was to reserve a few hours a day to do something completely different. If I was writing software, the other side might be gardening, or studying history.
dude I deal with this shit literally every day. I've spent a ton of time studying what can be done, and lately I've decided to use my skills as a web developer/startup guy to build a tool that can (hopefully) really help people like you and I.
Please email me (if OP is reading this, or anyone else who wants to discuss this) at [email protected] and I'll share what I'm planning. If you're a rails guy, we can even collaborate on the project (even if you're not, we can figure something out).
EDIT: To add some more to this, don't give up on drugs just yet. I've been taking Prozac for the last few months and it's made a HUGE difference for me. Not saying it's the right drug for you necessarily, but definitely experiment with different options (legally experiment). For instance, I was on Lexapro a few years ago and it royally screwed up my stomach and didn't fix anything.
Glad to see people suggesting exercise (spacefood, chaostheory, juliano_q, others), as well as other tools to change the underlying depression. I think the important takeaway is that this is not "startup depression" -- it's depression. You'll be happier/more successful if you find a way to get rid of it.
Sure, running a startup is going to have ups and downs. Sure, you'll sometimes fail at what you're trying to do, and you'll sometimes feel that failure deeply. Failing comes from trying to do something really difficult; taking that failure personally comes from being human.
But as a general rule, the founders I know from the (pretty hoppin') Boston scene are born optimists. More than any other group of people I know, they believe despite the odds, they bounce back quickly, and they have pretty tough skins.
Depression is hard to sort out, but totally worth it. It's worth it for anybody, but necessary for founders because of the up & down nature of running a startup. I spent much of my adult life beating my head against a wall, occasionally being depressed, and not understanding why I couldn't make sh*t happen. Then a few years ago I figured myself out (combination of exercise, gratitude, & therapy), and since then everything has been different. Externally, my life took a major turn for the better in every arena from relationships to finances. Internally, I just don't have the resistance I used to really suffer from, and my downs are pretty short. It rocks.
So I guess I feel your pain, but don't glorify it. Do the work to get over it. You'll be much happier.
You are viewing life through gloom filled lenses. It doesn't have to be this way.
I have been working alone/startups for about 3 years when I quit my last job. I was majorly depressed for over 3 years without realizing it, because on the surface it seemed like I had "the good life" (vacationing every 2-3 months, a bunch of friends, great income, etc) but everything I tried was sluggish, I felt demotivated and alone. Only when I checked myself into cognitive therapy did I realize how bad things were upstairs.
Over the years I built up all these inaccurate beliefs in myself and others without correcting them and letting them run rampant. I dedicated 2 hours a day in reading and practicing exercises + 1 hr / week cognitive behavioral therapy sessions for about 6 months, and it is by far the best investment I have spent. While they can't fix your problems so that you will never be depressed again, but it definitely helps you realize when you are thinking inaccurately, showing warning signs of depression, and things to help you cope.
If you can not afford therapy, then I suggest reading the book recommended by my therapist, "feeling good" by david burns. It helped me a lot more than any advice from parents, friends, strangers on the internet ever did.
You're welcome to reach out to me if you have any questions.
Can we give him some feedback and advice on Upverter so he can take it to the next level?
I think it's an interesting site.
But I'm not sure a subscription model is the way to go.
I do know R&D teams are gonna have a hard time getting permission to use it.
They have all the tools they need, their projects are secret, it's not going to fly with upper management.
I do like the fact that you can search for components and buy them.
I'm sure there's some affiliate revenue in there.
Although I have to say, it's probably not that easy, because companies usually have long-term agreements in place with suppliers, there's a lot of bureaucracy, you have to get a purchase order before you're allowed to buy something.
I'm not saying that's good or bad, but that's usually the way it is. And it's a problem for Upverter.
Getting PCBs manufactured is a good idea as well, especially for people who use Kickstarter and want to build a prototype.
The companies I know might be hesitant to use it. Especially for R&D projects, they will use their own equipment or outsource it to a local supplier they know they can trust. And this guy is going to say it's gonna cost you x, but I can do it cheaper if you let me manufacture the first 10,000 units.
And it gets really tricky when you're working on a cutting edge product, because you can't always buy every component off the shelf. The manufacturer is gonna say ok, I'm gonna help you but I can't buy component x cheap enough, or I'm gonna help you but you have to ship me component a,b,c before day x.
The design of your site looks really good but you need photographs of products that have been build. You may not care about that but if you're going after the Kickstarter market, then you're in the business of making dreams come through. You need to appeal to the senses.
I see startup depression as a sort of cost of the lifestyle. If your existence depends on the success of your own project, this can be an enormous weight to bear. If you have a bad day, it can easily turn into a bad week if you're not careful.
For me, when things aren't going my way, I just say, "Fuck it" and move on to the next problem. You're are going to lose sometimes, but who cares? You're going to win.
If sheer willpower doesn't work, I usually exercise and clean my apartment. The point is to secure little victories here and there to get you motivated. I can definitely say that doing the dishes and pumping out some push-ups have been the catalysts for some great ideas in the past.
At the end of the day everyone is experiencing some sort of depression every once and while. At least you're doing something awesome. Most people aren't. Remember that.
Wow, there's so much one could say on this subject. I'd post a lengthier response, but I don't have time right now, so I'll just say this:
Startup depression (hell, depression in general) is a serious problem. And while I'm no doctor or psychiatrist or anything, to the extent that just a "friendly ear to bend" can be useful, I offer myself up as such, to anybody dealing with depression. I've struggled with it myself to some extent, so I know what it's like. By all means, feel free to email me, call me, whatever, if you're ever feeling down and need somebody to talk to. If you happen to be in or near the RTP, NC area, we can meet in person over a coffee/beer/dinner whatever.
Also, if you're looking for other startup minded folks in this area to socialize with, definitely ping the RTP Hackers and Founders mailing list.
If you have a depression you need help. Talk to your doctor, and don't dismiss the assistance of drugs. Also exercising is known to help against depression.
If you have any kind of trouble with depression the first thing you should always check is that you exercise and eat right. It really makes a huge difference. You may also need to experiment with different drugs to find one that works for you but you're wasting your time if you don't exercise. EXERCISE!
I have always found that the fastest way to get out of a funk is to talk. Guess you have already started by sharing on HN. If possible, do the same thing in real life. Just get a friend and tell him/her all these things and maybe you will get a hug. A hug always helps :)
[+] [-] cwilson|14 years ago|reply
You realize you're going to die, in the best case, 70 to 80 years from now, yeah? Likely much sooner with the mental state you just described. This is all very blunt, and probably harsh, but my point is life is short and you only get one shot. I can't believe you'd subject yourself to this, all for a startup, or for the startup lifestyle. I do not mean to belittle what you are passionate about, or the time and effort you've clearly put into your company, but there is more to life than this.
Take a break. Take a very long break (I'm talking a year at least). Go travel, go home, go somewhere, but stop slaving away and sitting in your room for days at a time. Go be around other people, be it family or friends. Find love, and love yourself. You can always pursue your entrepreneurial dreams after you're happy (and your company will benefit from your happiness).
The startup lifestyle is an incredible journey, I'm on a third myself, but if I felt even remotely close to what you just described, I'd quit in an instant. It's not worth that to me, not even close. I'd prefer to be happy, love, be loved, and work in a coffee shop for the rest of my days before I'd trade it for being depressed in the way you describe.
You owe it to yourself to be happy, so quit wasting time.
[+] [-] ChrisNorstrom|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rayhano|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|14 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] unknown|14 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] alaskamiller|14 years ago|reply
This is the flip side to every multi million dollar exits of some social widget or TechCrunch rah rah bullshit or the stock buyouts of a collapsed firm.
This the reality in the tech game. Not everyone wins. I know this, I felt this, I felt the highs and lows.
But something isn't working. Many point out to trying too much, too hard, psychological, depression, so on so forth. These comments here ring a bit hollow because they dismiss what Zak already wrote. He is a smart cookie, he knows the sickness, he knows the cure. The only remedy is change. Not only change but be brave enough to also accept change. The metaphorical come-to-Jesus moment is nigh.
Then take five minutes and really think about this and see this for what it is. This post has been read over 9000 times--almost a third of all tech workers in the city of San Francisco--and rallied over 80 comments with people even arguing whether suggestions are mean sprited. Meaning: you are not alone.
Others get this, others empathize. Because we are the community that wakes up every morning and want it bad too. That in itself is pretty amazing.
What's the real solution? No one can give you that. It's going to be personal. You're a startup vet. Deep down you know what to do. Success is not a straight line, it's meandering, it's failures, it just is.
Cheers.
[+] [-] j45|14 years ago|reply
1) It starts and ends with building and maintaining a positive, healthy inner-dialogue. That is the single biggest thing that drags everyone down.
2) Be a friend to yourself. Be a friend to your future self. It's as much about valuing your own journey and time as it is trying to figure it all out. It's not all supposed to be figured out. We have to figure out enough to keep moving, inward, onward, upward.
3) Change is entirely the issue. Instead of changing for the sake of change, we don't pay enough attention to the subtle, but huge fact of whether we're changing for the better.
4) Experiences are worthless if positive lessons aren't learnt. It doesn't matter what anyone does or doesn't do, this axiom I've found to be true anywhere I look. When one gets caught up so haphazardly collecting experiences and not paying attention to "Have I stopped learning or growing positively", we start feeding the weeds as much as the garden.
I don't want to detract from what you wrote by saying much else. I agree with the rest of what you wrote :)
[+] [-] subwindow|14 years ago|reply
I don't want to minimize the OP's struggles- he most certainly has some kind of mood disorder (possibly rapid-cycling bipolar disorder or RBD). There may be depressive episodes involved, but I don't think the word "depression" should be used unless it's referring to Major Depressive Disorder or one of its close siblings.
Again, I'm trying hard to not be pedantic. It just frustrates me when people think that depression is something you can get over, or that will get better in a day or a week. That's just not the case.
[+] [-] DanBC|14 years ago|reply
Just want to point out that mild to moderate[1] depression respond well to cognitive behaviour therapy. A typical course lasts 8 weeks, but can be up to 14 weeks.
Severe depression can respond well to CBT, especially if there's other stuff (other forms of long term therapy, sometimes medication) in place.
I only say this because it's important for people who feel they are depressed to know that they're not necessarily going to be out of work for months or on weird medications for years. (Indeed, there's plenty of research showing that work is useful and not working is harmful.)
I agree there's a big difference between a carefully crafted course of therapy and an attitude of "just get over it" / "pull your socks up" / "stiff upper lip".
[1] Mild and moderate are not trivial; they can have big impacts on the life of the person with them and the people around them.
[+] [-] hellotoby|14 years ago|reply
There are many forms of depression as well as Major Depressive Disorder.
[+] [-] ebiester|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] joshuahhh|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] einhverfr|14 years ago|reply
It can be brutal sometimes. And we all have episodes. Sometimes I will lose a few days to one. But you stand back up and soldier through as soon as you can.
I have worked for other people and I have worked for myself, and this is something I only have experienced while self-employed. It is the flip side of being master of one's own destiny--- that is a heavy burden to bear sometimes.
I have never become suicidal or anything due to being self-employed. I HAVE had episodes that have cost me projects, money, time, and all sorts of other things.
This isn't something that can be medicated away. Even vacations don't help that much. It just requires constantly assessing balance in addition to everything else.....
[+] [-] drumdance|14 years ago|reply
Also, for the fatigue, my psych diagnosed me with adrenal fatigue and put me on some vitamins and supplements. I have never felt more energetic in my life. Adrenal fatigue is a common side effect of stress and my doctor says it's really common among entrepreneurs.
[+] [-] sachingulaya|14 years ago|reply
Mood stabilizers are not an appropriate first(SSRI), second(tricyclic), or even third line(MAOI) treatment for depression.
Your idea that you need to be sad to be happy is common among people who suffer from depression. But being depressed isn't 'part of the roller coaster'. You most certainly can have the highs without the lows...except if you're on mood stabilizers which work wonders at taking away both.
What's most concerning to me is that you credit your depression with so much of your accomplishments and motivation. There is absolutely no honor in suffering. That's just you buying in to a narrative. I feel happy when I've accomplished something. Other days I feel moderately happy and driven to accomplish something. No depression necessary.
And yes, I suffered from severe depression for years but would prefer not to discuss it publicly ;).
[+] [-] semisight|14 years ago|reply
Zak, what you're saying is true, up to a certain point. Life has lows, because sometimes, it just fucking sucks. However, you don't and can't see the difference between a low and depression. They are worlds apart. Please, please, give medicine another chance.
[+] [-] paraschopra|14 years ago|reply
Are you doing anything outside of your startup? Like learning a new language, getting into Art/Movie clubs or travelling?
[+] [-] the_cat_kittles|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] binarysolo|14 years ago|reply
Some times when ya got a memory leak you just gotta reboot the comp and start fresh and clean. Good luck from Palo Alto, CA.
[+] [-] depressedalot|14 years ago|reply
I do almost the exact same things as well - massive weight gain, HUGE sleep problems (to the point where I end up going to sleep as the sunrise, sleeping all day), lack of exercise, avoiding friends/gatherings, etc. I haven't left my apartment in 4 days now.
All of this while running a semi-successful (to the point where it pays my bills) consumer facing service company. It is difficult. It's difficult when I can't bring myself to answer the phone, call someone back, or give them an update on an order.
I have history of severe mental illness in my family, and it is actually a bit of a motivator to think of them. The family member in particular literally has spent 10-12 years trying to have a normal life while sleeping 12-18 hours a day, heavily medicated, in and out of hospitals (easily half the year in the hospital, for the past 15+ years), and 100+ ECT treatments. I don't want to be that. I don't want to get that far, and it pushes me to pick up that damn phone or send that email. I know that is a bit twisted, but it works for me. I don't want to hit that low. Oddly enough, any time I've ever seriously contemplated suicide, I've stopped precisely because I know what it would do to this person - I can't imagine bringing that much pain to my family and making them go through that. I don't know if they could handle it. I've had the unfortunate experience of walking in on a suicide attempt and driving their blood covered body to the hospital, and I know the way I felt there is nothing I would ever put someone through, no matter how much I wanted to.
I also have literally zero interest in talking about it - which is tough, but I know the first reaction from my family would be medication, and I absolutely refuse.
I'm rambling now, but that's probably good. Interesting what you'll say on a throwaway that you'd never dare with your name attached.
[+] [-] AznHisoka|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lukifer|14 years ago|reply
Here's what I've discovered: the highs are far more dangerous than the lows. The highs are good, whether they're based on real-world success, or your invisible fuel, the die-hard belief in what you're pursuing. You need those highs: milk them for all their worth.
But what goes up, must come down. Whether based on a real setback, or a stray negative thought, it doesn't take much to send you back down to earth, or straight through to hell. When the confidence evaporates, suddenly those unpleasant realities you were dismissing all hit you at once, and it's too much to deal with.
Everything you mentioned is great for riding out depression: sleep, a good meal, exercise, relaxation. You've got the treatment covered quite well. But after you bounce back, pay attention to that "winning" feeling, and work on moderating it to just the level you want, so that it can burn for longer, and you have less far to fall. Keep spending time on basic human needs, even when you're on top and you feel capable of 18-hour days.
Ideally, you want a steady engine, not bursts of up and down. But those will still happen sometimes; roll with it, forgive yourself, ride it out, and keep moving. Good luck!
(This is just a bit of awareness I picked up about myself; your mileage may vary.)
[+] [-] unknown|14 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] chegra|14 years ago|reply
2. Eat foods that will enhance dopamine: banana, avocado, almond nuts, ginseng, tangerine, red clover.
3. Keep away from food you are allergy too.
4. 10 minutes of exercise can get endorphins pumping but for a good kick, look for like 20mins. [You might struggle to get your first 10mins in but push through]
5. Give friends a call[maybe even by cam], better yet visit them.
6. Go get three massages[consecutive days] or ask a friend to give you a hand massage.
7. Cinnamon and Honey Tea. Mix a teaspoon of cinnamon and honey in hot water[about a cup]. Cinnamon and Honey both have anti-bacterial properties and strengthen the immune system.
[+] [-] goblin89|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] redthrowaway|14 years ago|reply
It can be excrutiatingly painful to talk about that which everyone knows, but keeps quiet. In doing so, you not only help yourself resolve your issues, but also allow those who come after you to get a more honest lay of the land, and more ably deal with the challenges that await them.
For that, I salute you.
Thanks.
[+] [-] alecco|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mr1976|14 years ago|reply
"Eat slow burning carbs"... seriously?
[+] [-] mmaunder|14 years ago|reply
You need to be having fun doing your startup or you won't be able to succeed and should do something else. So if you're spending most of your time writing code, try to make it fun again. If you can't then I recommend the following:
Go and get a physical job for a few months, preferably somewhere rural. It will remind you what real hard work is like, get you physically fit and give you the satisfaction of having achieved something tangible at the end of your day. Come back when you're ready.
[+] [-] 1point2|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] einhverfr|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dchuk|14 years ago|reply
Please email me (if OP is reading this, or anyone else who wants to discuss this) at [email protected] and I'll share what I'm planning. If you're a rails guy, we can even collaborate on the project (even if you're not, we can figure something out).
EDIT: To add some more to this, don't give up on drugs just yet. I've been taking Prozac for the last few months and it's made a HUGE difference for me. Not saying it's the right drug for you necessarily, but definitely experiment with different options (legally experiment). For instance, I was on Lexapro a few years ago and it royally screwed up my stomach and didn't fix anything.
[+] [-] crewtide|14 years ago|reply
Sure, running a startup is going to have ups and downs. Sure, you'll sometimes fail at what you're trying to do, and you'll sometimes feel that failure deeply. Failing comes from trying to do something really difficult; taking that failure personally comes from being human.
But as a general rule, the founders I know from the (pretty hoppin') Boston scene are born optimists. More than any other group of people I know, they believe despite the odds, they bounce back quickly, and they have pretty tough skins.
Depression is hard to sort out, but totally worth it. It's worth it for anybody, but necessary for founders because of the up & down nature of running a startup. I spent much of my adult life beating my head against a wall, occasionally being depressed, and not understanding why I couldn't make sh*t happen. Then a few years ago I figured myself out (combination of exercise, gratitude, & therapy), and since then everything has been different. Externally, my life took a major turn for the better in every arena from relationships to finances. Internally, I just don't have the resistance I used to really suffer from, and my downs are pretty short. It rocks.
So I guess I feel your pain, but don't glorify it. Do the work to get over it. You'll be much happier.
[+] [-] jyu|14 years ago|reply
I have been working alone/startups for about 3 years when I quit my last job. I was majorly depressed for over 3 years without realizing it, because on the surface it seemed like I had "the good life" (vacationing every 2-3 months, a bunch of friends, great income, etc) but everything I tried was sluggish, I felt demotivated and alone. Only when I checked myself into cognitive therapy did I realize how bad things were upstairs.
Over the years I built up all these inaccurate beliefs in myself and others without correcting them and letting them run rampant. I dedicated 2 hours a day in reading and practicing exercises + 1 hr / week cognitive behavioral therapy sessions for about 6 months, and it is by far the best investment I have spent. While they can't fix your problems so that you will never be depressed again, but it definitely helps you realize when you are thinking inaccurately, showing warning signs of depression, and things to help you cope.
If you can not afford therapy, then I suggest reading the book recommended by my therapist, "feeling good" by david burns. It helped me a lot more than any advice from parents, friends, strangers on the internet ever did.
You're welcome to reach out to me if you have any questions.
[+] [-] _k|14 years ago|reply
I think it's an interesting site. But I'm not sure a subscription model is the way to go. I do know R&D teams are gonna have a hard time getting permission to use it. They have all the tools they need, their projects are secret, it's not going to fly with upper management.
I do like the fact that you can search for components and buy them. I'm sure there's some affiliate revenue in there. Although I have to say, it's probably not that easy, because companies usually have long-term agreements in place with suppliers, there's a lot of bureaucracy, you have to get a purchase order before you're allowed to buy something. I'm not saying that's good or bad, but that's usually the way it is. And it's a problem for Upverter.
Getting PCBs manufactured is a good idea as well, especially for people who use Kickstarter and want to build a prototype. The companies I know might be hesitant to use it. Especially for R&D projects, they will use their own equipment or outsource it to a local supplier they know they can trust. And this guy is going to say it's gonna cost you x, but I can do it cheaper if you let me manufacture the first 10,000 units. And it gets really tricky when you're working on a cutting edge product, because you can't always buy every component off the shelf. The manufacturer is gonna say ok, I'm gonna help you but I can't buy component x cheap enough, or I'm gonna help you but you have to ship me component a,b,c before day x.
The design of your site looks really good but you need photographs of products that have been build. You may not care about that but if you're going after the Kickstarter market, then you're in the business of making dreams come through. You need to appeal to the senses.
[+] [-] spacefood|14 years ago|reply
Give it a try. Lift HEAVY weights for at least 4-5 days a week, and make it the absolute NUMBER ONE PRIORITY in your life for that month.
Closely monitor how you feel, and how your mind thinks during that month.
Try this ASAP Zak. It will IMPROVE YOUR LIFE.
P.S. Sorry if I come off as a spazz. I just really believe in what I'm saying.
[+] [-] LeandroLovisolo|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mmonihan|14 years ago|reply
For me, when things aren't going my way, I just say, "Fuck it" and move on to the next problem. You're are going to lose sometimes, but who cares? You're going to win.
If sheer willpower doesn't work, I usually exercise and clean my apartment. The point is to secure little victories here and there to get you motivated. I can definitely say that doing the dishes and pumping out some push-ups have been the catalysts for some great ideas in the past.
At the end of the day everyone is experiencing some sort of depression every once and while. At least you're doing something awesome. Most people aren't. Remember that.
[+] [-] mindcrime|14 years ago|reply
Startup depression (hell, depression in general) is a serious problem. And while I'm no doctor or psychiatrist or anything, to the extent that just a "friendly ear to bend" can be useful, I offer myself up as such, to anybody dealing with depression. I've struggled with it myself to some extent, so I know what it's like. By all means, feel free to email me, call me, whatever, if you're ever feeling down and need somebody to talk to. If you happen to be in or near the RTP, NC area, we can meet in person over a coffee/beer/dinner whatever.
Also, if you're looking for other startup minded folks in this area to socialize with, definitely ping the RTP Hackers and Founders mailing list.
[+] [-] niels|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Devilboy|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nutanc|14 years ago|reply