1 host = 1 credit looks like a problem, similar to how it can be hard to build up ratio on well established private torrent trackers. The distribution of credits will not be even with many hosts building up credits for some nebulous future trip. How do those actually travelling around earn credits past the first 3 complimentary?
Bonus point systems or just ignoring ratio solved this from my pov for trackers, the 1 to 1 ratio stood out as something that would need a solution long term.
It seems so obviously flawed that I'm wondering if that isn't a key part of the value proposition. Boondockers and more recently Vanly already provide a very similar service (RV/Van parking on private property), but aren't limited to California and don't have the pseudo-barter system requirement.
I'm wondering, is there some sort of California-specific tax/zoning loophole that allows this but doesn't allow nightly rentals ala Vanly or Boondockers? It's the only way that this makes sense to me.
A big part of the fun for me is being completely alone, practicing map reading, and faffing around as I find my own way. So I Google the name of the forest and the phrase "district map" to identify the ranger district(s) I'm interested in, Google the district name with the phrase "dispersed camping" to read the rules, and then stare at a topo map with an MVUM overlay to decide spots to look. I find this process often identifies better sites (by my preferences at least) than I see online and online listings are not infrequently wrong about the rules. The process from turning on to the first dirt road to camping takes maybe 20 minutes if I'm in a hurry or an hour if I'm optimizing for the perfect spot. If I forgot to refill my water container and need to find a stream that's an extra .1-2hours depending on season and region.
If I wanted the actual right answer I'd call a ranger.
(The reason I Google is because the USFS and to a lesser extent BLM have awful intra-site navigation. I don't bother asking Google to restrict to the domain because the right usfs page will be at the top anyway. MVUM stands for Motor Vehicle Use Map and indicates where I can drive and, if applicable, which roads I can pull off to camp. Remember that following the MVUM is necessary but not sufficient, you also need to check the dispersed camping section of the appropriate website. You can get MVUM pdfs by googling place + "MVUM" but I prefer the MVUM layer in the app CalTopo)
I love paying $100 annually to get something "for free".
Jokes aside, I think this concept is cool and I'm not even upset that there is a membership fee to keep people engaged and to support the software component that coordinates this. But $100 per year? This feels like $50 per year TOPS! Really I feel like this should be closer to $20 per year.
I think it is going to be tough to get people to pay $100 subscription and then ask them to play host, just to earn the opportunity to get what is essentially free overnight parking at a 1:1 ratio of you providing it to others.
I joined Boondockers Welcome back in 2018 when it was $30 per year. Totally worth it even if I was just going to camp one time (which most new users will do).
But this? This is a money grab (as was boondockers welcome) but $100 is a HUGE money grab. I think the owner of this just expected to put this page out and get rich. The submitter didn't even reply to a single person. Total scam I hope no one "signed up".
Looks really interesting! I guess the big disappointment for me was that it's actually a $100 annual subscription. I thought from your title that it would be free.
As an active host on Couchsurfing, I want to thank you and your former teammates for one of the best initiatives ever.
I've been hosting people from all over the world for some time now, and I really like the community! It's bringing me so much joy to host a world traveler from Poland one day, and a transgender Iranian guy on a bicycle trip the next day.
$100/yr to join a club of fellow California homeowners / home renters who love to camp and are willing to reciprocally allow stays at their home is not bad. Especially if that $100 is used to pre vet users who will behave in a way that will garner 4-5 star reviews consistently.
For anyone looking for actually free, no strings attached (and no subscription) camping, check https://freecampsites.net/ instead. It's a community wiki of free camp sites, usually on federal lands of various sorts (National Forests and BLM lands often have primitive campsites with fire rings and not much else). It's great for travel around national parks, especially. But please do leave no trace, pack out what you bring in.
Edit: I should add that much of federally protected lands are free to camp on, within certain limits that I can't remember offhand. Things like no more than X days within a month, must be further than Y from a street or river, may or may not need a fire permit, etc. Even if undocumented and unlabeled on a map, you can typically just pull off the road and camp alongside, perfectly legally. It's part of their intended use, though that's never really made clear to the public.
What this website provides isn't the land itself (which is paid for by taxpayers) but curation, so you can easily find places with a good view, cell reception, fire rings, minimal traffic and whatnot. A lot of national lands aren't exactly desirable to camp on even if you're totally within your rights to do so.
Freecampsites.net is fantastic (minus the UI which leaves a lot to be desired, and can be problematic on mobile). I used it extensively over the past two months as I roadtripped across Colorado/Utah/Arizona/Nevada. It has a neat trip planner feature where you put your route and it will show you all the places along the route where you can camp.
It's not a complete source of information since it's community submitted, so I often cross-reference these other two sites:
It's important to read the reviews of each campsite, since sometimes they will say things like "road is inaccessible without a high clearance vehicle" or "now private land; camping is no longer possible".
Also, make sure you pick a few nice places and jot down their coordinates BEFORE you get there. In my experience, most BLM land doesn't have the best (if any) cell service, so YMMV.
You can camp for free in all unimproved areas of US national forests that aren't designated wilderness areas or otherwise designated as off limits for dispersed camping. This is something like 98% of the forests. The exact rules can vary a bit from place to place, so always check with the ranger station in that area (don't rely on the website!) for anything special.
You usually need to have a permit if you're parking your car at a trailhead, though.
But in general, the rules are:
Leave no trace. This means: no litter, bury all your poop (but no toilet paper) in holes at least 6 inches deep, use spots that have already been used for camping before when possible, etc.
Don't damage anything.
Don't cut live trees or other plants.
You can collect and burn all the firewood you want, but you cannot take any out of the forest.
Generally speaking, do not use fireworks or firearms.
Fires must be completely extinguished if there is no person around. Completely extinguished means that you can stick your hand into the ashes without discomfort.
Store your food in a way that prevents animals from getting to it. Do not feed any animals, not even squirrels or birds.
No camping within 100 feet of any water sources, trails, or improved campgrounds.
You cannot stay in the same area (I think, but I'm not sure, that "the same area" means within 50 miles) for more than 14 days within a 31 day period.
Do not build any structures.
If you leave your campsite unattended for more than 72 hours, the forest service deems it abandoned and may disposed of everything in it.
No amplified sounds (music players, PA systems, etc).
Also, for most of the "don't do this" rules, there is an implied "without a permit". For instance, you can remove wood from the forest if you have a permit to do so.
Not sure if this is true in other states. In Alaska you are allowed to camp on State of Alaska land for 7 days in one location. Often state land is within a few miles of a community. State Parks on the other hand often cost a few bucks a night.
What this website provides is (and I am sorry to say this to the folk that put hard work into making this happen) lowered friction to camping. And a large number of folks do not understand LNT (see also: Instagram spots) and will be extremely destructive.
I love camping. I think it's an amazing resource. I also think it's a net negative if it ever gets popular.
Everything you wrote is bang on - please, please, PLEASE:
Leave no trace. Haul out your garbage. Don't shoot, shit, or camp within 100 yards of streams, creeks, or rivers. Don't make fire rings where they already exist. Abide by fire restrictions that might vary by county. Stay on existing, marked hiking and motor vehicle trails.
As a resident of the West (which has huge swaths of "public" land) I am so tired of folks coming to "camp" on public land and just absolutely trashing the place. We're losing access to land because people can't be bothered to dig proper cat holes for their shit, pick up their trash, and they're just setting up semi-permanent #vanlife outposts. All these great free spots are getting overrun by people who have no common sense and slowly by slowly they're turning into paid, reservable spots.
So it's kinda like Couchsurfing.com and Warmshowers, but expensive ($100/yr) and only for vanlifers? Interesting.
I like the community peer to peer model, but it kinda feels exploitative to put an expensive business layer on top of it. What does the $100/yr provide that Couchsurfing's $30/yr doesn't, aside from a feeling of exclusivity? Or is that the point, to weed out poor vanlifers and allow only rich vacationers to swap hosting with each other?
This has the feel of a site someone set up to gauge interest based on signups, rather than something that actually exists. I've never been quite sure how I feel about those: smart product testing or disingenuous bait-and-switch?
That's the new first step for startups: build a landing page, collect email addresses, only then start building a product. Hard to judge from the outside how much already exists (the first big image is a stock photo).
I've been doing this for the last couple years down here in Australia. Wrote some words over at https://ghuntley.com/freecamping/ about where to find spots etc.
I'm interested but $100/yr kind of sounds like a lot. Is it free to host? I wouldn't mind building up credits for a road trip later if I didn't have to pay. Also maybe a monthly price would make more sense as I tend to be on the road only for periods at a time. (or maybe even a per-booking fee?)
Anyways, yearly sub is kind of a non-starter for me though I like the concept.
It sounds like too little to avoid hosting people who don't have a place where host. Someone could pretend another non-host user is hosting them and both could use the credits to stay with actual hosts. Or they could host someone in the same place where they're staying that they don't own or rent.
It reminds me of a mooring exchange website I built 20 years ago, where boaters could freely exchange and/or temporarily use each other's moorings. I eventually pulled the plug because harbormasters were complaining about it and it was just consuming time (no monetization). Maybe I should try again with an annual fee ;)
I tried going to a cheap motel while travelling the other day. The cheapest I could get on a short notice was $80 after taxes and fees. The place had many Yelp reviews yet had the lowest possible score (1.0). I only found this out afterwards. I'd estimate ~50% of the pictures were pics of people's bed bug bites, ~30% were cockroach pictures (one of them was incredibly well-shot. Like they had a macro lens and everything) and the other 20% were misc pictures like mold on the walls and stuff. The place stank right away when I walked in. I ended up checking out the same night and sleeping in my car
If you're doing it full-time and you don't have anything to fall back on, you're eventually gonna stay at some crappy motel at least a handful of times. Hard to imagine two such stays are gonna end up being less than $100
[+] [-] muti|2 years ago|reply
Bonus point systems or just ignoring ratio solved this from my pov for trackers, the 1 to 1 ratio stood out as something that would need a solution long term.
[+] [-] i_am_jl|2 years ago|reply
I'm wondering, is there some sort of California-specific tax/zoning loophole that allows this but doesn't allow nightly rentals ala Vanly or Boondockers? It's the only way that this makes sense to me.
[+] [-] edgineer|2 years ago|reply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Hill_Babysitting_Co-op
[+] [-] xwdv|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] iudqnolq|2 years ago|reply
If I wanted the actual right answer I'd call a ranger.
(The reason I Google is because the USFS and to a lesser extent BLM have awful intra-site navigation. I don't bother asking Google to restrict to the domain because the right usfs page will be at the top anyway. MVUM stands for Motor Vehicle Use Map and indicates where I can drive and, if applicable, which roads I can pull off to camp. Remember that following the MVUM is necessary but not sufficient, you also need to check the dispersed camping section of the appropriate website. You can get MVUM pdfs by googling place + "MVUM" but I prefer the MVUM layer in the app CalTopo)
[+] [-] jacurtis|2 years ago|reply
Jokes aside, I think this concept is cool and I'm not even upset that there is a membership fee to keep people engaged and to support the software component that coordinates this. But $100 per year? This feels like $50 per year TOPS! Really I feel like this should be closer to $20 per year.
I think it is going to be tough to get people to pay $100 subscription and then ask them to play host, just to earn the opportunity to get what is essentially free overnight parking at a 1:1 ratio of you providing it to others.
[+] [-] coding123|2 years ago|reply
But this? This is a money grab (as was boondockers welcome) but $100 is a HUGE money grab. I think the owner of this just expected to put this page out and get rich. The submitter didn't even reply to a single person. Total scam I hope no one "signed up".
[+] [-] KennyBlanken|2 years ago|reply
Last I checked, there's a one-time $30 fee.
[+] [-] gffrd|2 years ago|reply
By who? There's literally zero information that would make me trust this: who's running this, how's it backed up, what proof you have that this works.
But, cool idea. Love the reciprocity focus. Kind of like couchsurfing, but shinier?
[+] [-] Reubend|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mathgeek|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ratg13|2 years ago|reply
For $100 you can just pay for a place to park.
[+] [-] mbgerring|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rambambram|2 years ago|reply
I've been hosting people from all over the world for some time now, and I really like the community! It's bringing me so much joy to host a world traveler from Poland one day, and a transgender Iranian guy on a bicycle trip the next day.
[+] [-] culi|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] johnnylambada|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] solardev|2 years ago|reply
Edit: I should add that much of federally protected lands are free to camp on, within certain limits that I can't remember offhand. Things like no more than X days within a month, must be further than Y from a street or river, may or may not need a fire permit, etc. Even if undocumented and unlabeled on a map, you can typically just pull off the road and camp alongside, perfectly legally. It's part of their intended use, though that's never really made clear to the public.
What this website provides isn't the land itself (which is paid for by taxpayers) but curation, so you can easily find places with a good view, cell reception, fire rings, minimal traffic and whatnot. A lot of national lands aren't exactly desirable to camp on even if you're totally within your rights to do so.
[+] [-] KMnO4|2 years ago|reply
It's not a complete source of information since it's community submitted, so I often cross-reference these other two sites:
https://freeroam.app
https://www.campendium.com/
It's important to read the reviews of each campsite, since sometimes they will say things like "road is inaccessible without a high clearance vehicle" or "now private land; camping is no longer possible".
Also, make sure you pick a few nice places and jot down their coordinates BEFORE you get there. In my experience, most BLM land doesn't have the best (if any) cell service, so YMMV.
[+] [-] JohnFen|2 years ago|reply
You usually need to have a permit if you're parking your car at a trailhead, though.
But in general, the rules are:
Leave no trace. This means: no litter, bury all your poop (but no toilet paper) in holes at least 6 inches deep, use spots that have already been used for camping before when possible, etc.
Don't damage anything.
Don't cut live trees or other plants.
You can collect and burn all the firewood you want, but you cannot take any out of the forest.
Generally speaking, do not use fireworks or firearms.
Fires must be completely extinguished if there is no person around. Completely extinguished means that you can stick your hand into the ashes without discomfort.
Store your food in a way that prevents animals from getting to it. Do not feed any animals, not even squirrels or birds.
No camping within 100 feet of any water sources, trails, or improved campgrounds.
You cannot stay in the same area (I think, but I'm not sure, that "the same area" means within 50 miles) for more than 14 days within a 31 day period.
Do not build any structures.
If you leave your campsite unattended for more than 72 hours, the forest service deems it abandoned and may disposed of everything in it.
No amplified sounds (music players, PA systems, etc).
Also, for most of the "don't do this" rules, there is an implied "without a permit". For instance, you can remove wood from the forest if you have a permit to do so.
[+] [-] ghostly_s|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Magi604|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tastyfreeze|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] groby_b|2 years ago|reply
I love camping. I think it's an amazing resource. I also think it's a net negative if it ever gets popular.
[+] [-] epiccoleman|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] culi|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] siftrics|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zucked|2 years ago|reply
As a resident of the West (which has huge swaths of "public" land) I am so tired of folks coming to "camp" on public land and just absolutely trashing the place. We're losing access to land because people can't be bothered to dig proper cat holes for their shit, pick up their trash, and they're just setting up semi-permanent #vanlife outposts. All these great free spots are getting overrun by people who have no common sense and slowly by slowly they're turning into paid, reservable spots.
[+] [-] Paul_S|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] culi|2 years ago|reply
https://freeroam.app/about is also a 501(c)3 though a bit newer
[+] [-] solardev|2 years ago|reply
I like the community peer to peer model, but it kinda feels exploitative to put an expensive business layer on top of it. What does the $100/yr provide that Couchsurfing's $30/yr doesn't, aside from a feeling of exclusivity? Or is that the point, to weed out poor vanlifers and allow only rich vacationers to swap hosting with each other?
[+] [-] halfstar91|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fishtoaster|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mtmail|2 years ago|reply
https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html says signup pages and waiting lists are usually off-topic.
[+] [-] JimtheCoder|2 years ago|reply
It's usually done without the actual company name or final "brand", so you wouldn't even know about it.
I guess these guys didn't get the memo, if this is actually a "demand gauging" website...
[+] [-] goodpoint|2 years ago|reply
That accounts for 90% of silicon valley products.
[+] [-] 1024core|2 years ago|reply
... plus $100/year. Why is the annual fee mentioned near the bottom of the page?
[+] [-] culi|2 years ago|reply
boondocking, community-submitted tips https://boondocking.org/
camping, parks, hosting, for-profit https://www.campendium.com/
nature-loving free campers, 501c3 https://freeroam.app/
free campsites, community-submitted tips https://freecampsites.net/
rv camping membership https://harvesthosts.com/
very bougie/expensive hipster, van life membership and blockchain thing https://www.kift.com/
hosting, 3 stays free $100/year otherwise, CA only https://www.landcamp.org/
bicycle tourists https://www.warmshowers.org/
couchsurfing, social network https://www.couchsurfing.com/
airbnb for driveways basically, very expensive https://vanly.app/
[+] [-] rambambram|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cachvico|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pluto_modadic|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ghuntley|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] impissedoff1|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nicpottier|2 years ago|reply
Anyways, yearly sub is kind of a non-starter for me though I like the concept.
[+] [-] benatkin|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] barbazoo|2 years ago|reply
Sounds like it is... maybe?
> Membership is free if you only want to host (great traffic for businesses like breweries)
[+] [-] MontgomeryPi2|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] totallywrong|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jupp0r|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] coding123|2 years ago|reply
boondockers welcome was free for a long time before they introduced a fee. then they were $30 per year, and now $79.
What makes you better - a newer website, a shorter domain name? more chic graphics?
[+] [-] culi|2 years ago|reply
If you're doing it full-time and you don't have anything to fall back on, you're eventually gonna stay at some crappy motel at least a handful of times. Hard to imagine two such stays are gonna end up being less than $100