I know it’s only tangential related to the topic, but reading this article just overflows me with this feeling I’m describing below. I didn’t voice this out somewhere before, it somehow just started very recently and it’s so difficult for me to let go of it.
I can’t get over the fact that we all must die. Everybody you ever knew and could be able to know will. You who are reading this message, I, all the other significant people in our lives, all the users on this platform. Everybody who is right now experiencing their consciousness in this universe. All the consciousnesses before - the person in the article who asked to tell the bees about their dead.
It’s as if whatever is and ever could be completely collapses once your consciousness is gone. Saying it doesn’t make sense to try to make sense about it makes no sense because once it’s over it’s as if there never was and will be no sense to begin with.
It’s filling me with nothing but deep dread, tears, pain and suffering all over my body.
Still, beautiful to see how others tried to cope with it by telling the bees.
FWIW, I am at risk of sudden cardiac death due to unpredictable, rapid-onset ventricular fibrillation. I've been defibrillated twice, the first time after an out-of-hospital VF episode, which has a 1-in-5 survival rate. The second time was by an implanted defibrillator. In that episode I had no more than five seconds from awareness that I was feeling faint to passing out.
I now accept that it could happen again at essentially any time, and that the defibrillation might not work. And yet my life continues pretty much as normal (although I'm no longer able to drive). I still get up, do the chores, enjoy the other aspects of my life, get bored, etc etc.
I've recognised that there is a difference between death itself (which doesn't now frighten me), and the process that causes it. I've now come to believe that VF is actually how I would like to die, when the time comes. It seems infinitely preferable to a slow painful process due to cancer, or Alzheimer's.
I feel similarly from time to time. I refer to it as “existential dread.” I’m a Christian, but I’m not free of doubt. And when I have these moments of existential dread my beliefs feel so absurd. It usually starts with immense fear at the thought of death, and of nothing being beyond that, like you describe. But then it spirals into the absurdity of everything. The fact that I’m a sentient ape on a spinning ball just feels … nonsensical. In these moments the only thing that makes sense is for nothing to exist at all.
I try to take comfort in the fact that, as crazy as it seems, I really am a sentient ape on a spinning ball. My experiences right here, right now, prove that there is something instead of nothing. And things don’t have to make sense to me for things to be real. In fact, whatever the absolute truth of the universe is, it’s probably too complex for us to comprehend, let alone for us to figure out. Even as a Christian, I accept that large parts of my beliefs are completely wrong, or at best simplifications. Because the absolute truth is something beyond understanding.
I don’t know, saying it out loud doesn’t feel very comforting. I had a bit of an attack of existential dread typing this out. But I felt the need to share my experience with you
Imagine we go to the beach, and we observe the waves. A wave is born in the sea, then rolls forward until it dies on the beach. Each wave is different, and how sad it is that it's gone once it reaches the beach.
The thing is, a wave is basically some water particles and energy. The water particles don't go away, and as we know from physics, neither does the energy. So how can a wave die when all of its components don't die?
The truth is, a wave doesn't really exist. It's a concept in our head. "Here is some part of water that is higher than the rest, let's call it a wave". And now the wave can be "born" in the sea and "die" at the beach. But in fact nothing was created nor removed. It's just a concept. Everything is in fact interconnected. The disconnected parts that we see are concepts in our head. A tree, the sun, the rain, grass, ... . Nothing stands on its own.
You and me and everyone here, we are just concepts like the wave. What are you composed of? Some DNA from your ancestors, some cultural influence, the plants and animals you eat, the water you drink. After the concept of "you" dies, everything is still here. Everything that you were composed of is still here.
You're not an entity on your own. You are interconnected with everything around you. You are the water you drink and the water is you. Your thoughts are the thoughts of your ancestors, of your fellow humans, etc, and your thoughts are theirs.
So even if the waves die on the beach, the sea is still there. An therefore, the waves are also still there.
I think part of what makes death so weird is that we don't really experience it. We don't really know when it's coming, except for sometimes when it's imminent, and even then it's mostly just guessing. So, even though it's inevitable, most of the time we don't view life through the lens of death, simply because it's impossible to work backwards from.
> Because we don't know when we will die, we get to think of life as an inexhaustible well. Yet everything happens only a certain number of times, and a very small number really. How many more times will you remember a certain afternoon of your childhood, an afternoon that is so deeply a part of your being that you can't even conceive of your life without it? Perhaps four, five times more, perhaps not even that. How many more times will you watch the full moon rise? Perhaps 20. And yet it all seems limitless.
I understand the feeling. I felt it often as a child and would run to my parents crying about it in the middle of the night. It's the dread of utter dark—like every light in the world going out at once.
It turns out this question—how do we contend with the question of death?—is one of the most, if not the most, studied questions in human history, second perhaps only to why we came to exist. The collective answer by each of the world's cultures is encoded in myth, poetry, and spiritual and religious traditions. I would recommend the Bhagavad Gita, translated and commentated by Eknath Easwaran (https://www.amazon.com/Bhagavad-Gita-2nd-Eknath-Easwaran/dp/...). It's not necessary to practice or believe in any particular religion to gain something valuable from these books, nor is it incompatible with science to delve spiritually.
This is arguably bad advice if you're already sad, but in any case, coping for me is all about perspective. I read a book called The Five Ages of the Universe a few weeks ago. It's pretty fascinating to see a timeline of the entire universe like this and to realize that the Stelliferous Era, the only age in which stars will exist, is so short compared to everything else that ever has or ever will happen. The universe will eventually run out of hydrogen. Black holes will evaporate. If the grand-unified theory predicting proton decay is true, baryonic matter will eventually no longer exist. Even if that one isn't true, protons will still eventually decay because of quantum tunnelling, just on much longer timescales. The accelerating expansion of the universe will eventually permanently causally disconnect whatever is left when we no longer have galaxies from everything else.
All the things people try to save, themselves, their cultures, their religion, their species, the earth, it is all not only temporary, but barely an infinitesimal slice of nothingness, a rounding error indistinguishable from zero on any global timeline. At the same time, it's a miracle we ever got to exist at all. Enjoy what you get and stop longing for the impossible. Everything will die. Whoever or whatever you love, go love it while you still have the chance.
If you realize that the space your brain takes is not special and holds no “soul”, it becomes obvious that consciousness must be sort of a field that sort of resonates with islands of enough complexity.
That means you are actually a billions-eyed monster whose eyes grow anew and go blind from time to time. Rather than fearing being gone, fear that you, right now and in the past, experience the horror of existence of all organisms that ever existed. Be thankful for your current “eye”’s relative comfort which is rare. And dread the next experience somewhere in <choose a shithole> as a <choose your species>.
Life is absurd. Why anything exists at all is absurd. So absurd in fact I find it unconvincing that life is nothing but a large deterministic automaton without initial cause. Maybe religions are a coping mechanism for deluded people, but I hope they point to some deeper truths that we may never fully grasp.
In any case, pain and other conscious beings are as real as it gets, so no matter how brief one lifetime is, you can have a real impact by making it better for those around you.
I was fortunate enough to experience death (I got better!) a few years ago. I passed out, and then came back to awareness six or seven days later. It was a piece of piss. Easy. One moment I was there, then I wasn't, then I was again. If that "again" hadn't happened, it wouldn't have mattered (to me) at all. Not in the slightest. I wasn't there!
I'm still moderately afraid of _dying_ - pain is unpleasant, and so is loss of physical faculties - but the non-existence part of death? I've been there, and it's no big deal.
I doubt this helps you - it wouldn't have helped me, had I been told it prior to experiencing it - but it is immensely comforting to me now.
Yours is a very individualistic view point. The individual can't survive forever, but if you think of humanity as a single living organism, kind of like a mold that has colonized this rock called Earth, then it is immortal. Thinking of it as a single organism allows you to see that, like all life, it keeps itself healthy by having older elements die off while new ones are regenerated. Each individual doesn't matter much.
This point of view is good for thinking environmentally, "we" will live forever as long as we keep the planet habitable. But there's a range of other perspectives between the individual and planet-wide organism. For example, some like to focus on keeping their nation alive, or their race, or their culture, or just their own bloodline. If you elevate any of these it lessens the despair of the inevitable death of the individual.
When you first walk through the gate it's like 8am and it's incredible. There's so much to do and see. So much potential. You don't know where to start.
So you get a map and you look at all the rides and attractions and you start doing them by what interests you.
As the day goes on, you're having a great time but you kinda have to take a break at 3-4pm because your feet kinda hurt and youre hungry.
But you still have the other half of the park to get to so you get back to it.
Eventually, night time rolls around and you did everything you wanted to do. You rode all the rides that looked fun, and you saw all the attractions that looked fun.
Now, you have been wandering around main street looking at all the shops, wondering what you're going to buy as you wait for the fireworks display, and you realize, you're exhausted. You have been on your feet since early this morning. You have walked literally 20 miles today. You have had a great time though.
The firework show starts and it's just fantastic. It spends the rest of the mental energy you have and then it's time to head back to the hotel and go to sleep.
Now instead, imagine that someone locks the front gate and you can never leave. You can never go home. You can never sleep again. You must stay in the park forever. Imagine how exhausting that sounds...
Obviously I am equating this to the life events of being born, being a kid, living life as a young adult through mature adult, through your senior years until it's time for you to pass on. And being trapped in the park is like living forever...
Realize that by the time it's all over, you should be able to look back and say "I rode all the rides I wanted and I eat all the waffle cake I could", rather than "Boy I really wish I didn't complain that my feet were sore for an hour and I never got to ride that one ride".
Conversely: people are basically forgetting "John Wayne" (to name a larger-than-life character of recent memory).
I made a reference a few years ago to "Let's put on the 'Theme Song from Rocky' and get this done!" (in reference to having figured out a bugfix or something for the project of the day), and I was met with blank stares by my (admittedly younger) co-workers. It really kindof broke me for a second that something that was _such_ a cultural phenomenon is currently "unimportant" or "irrelevant".
If "The Theme Song from Rocky" can be forgotten, what chance do I have of making an indelible mark on life?
Maybe John Wayne movies still come on every once in a while, but as a global community, we're losing a lot of "broadcast shared culture" in favor of "unicast, A/B-tested, divisive entertainment", and specifically "entertainment" rather than "culture".
So don't focus on making an indelible mark on life-at-large, or being a larger-than-life character like John Wayne... but instead focus on making positive impacts to the people closest to you, and especially yourself.
I love that this is a discussion here. How profitable! There are very few questions that are of greater importance than the one you have alluded to.
I'm a Christian and, oddly, don't suffer from the same existential dread as most admit any more, but I used to be consumed by it.
The simplest way I could say it is this: once you are shown what is behind the curtain and you place your trust in the one who's running the show then dread gives way to overwhelming peace. That's what happened for me and I guarantee that anyone who seeks the same true God will find the same peace.
Easy to dismiss, I know, but I guarantee it's true. Odd, eh?
Part of dealing with your existential dread is accepting the fact that you're right to be afraid, but not for the reasons you first think. This will be a bridge too far for some, but a discerning reading of this could be the catalyst some need: https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/edwards_jonathan/Sermon...
Others have talked very well about the concept of self, so I won't. I just wanted to add that we feel like there should be some meaning to our lives, make an impact that will be remembered for a long time. Sure, fine things to pursue but it's good to do so dispassionately keeping in mind that far greater achievers are not generally remembered. From the top of mind, I don't know who invented the safety pin or stickers or tshirts or ruled notebooks.
I take comfort in participating in this huge system of life and death and in knowing that billions have lived ordinary lives and died. I don't dye my hair and don't ignore signs of aging. I'm happy to grow older and retire and reduce my needs and spend more time with friends and family and when I die I'll join the legion of billions of decent, hardworking, perfectly ordinary people. It's a fine group to be part of.
This feeling is why I just don't get the petty quibbles and politics of humanity.
This life is only one we have so why not make it the best for everyone.What else is the point of life but to live to the fullest and help everyone else live to their fullest (happiest). You can't take it with you, there is no prize for dying with the most money or power.
The meaning of life is only what we want it to be.
What you've described is the human condition--our reconciliation of a relatively short, finite existence with the unceasing passage of time. Time doesn't really exist, it just affects us, so effectively it does exist.
What you're feeling has lead to civilization, essentially. I think the finite nature of a human life isn't an inherent property of the concept of humanity, but I think a lot of the ideals thats we use to define humanity are born from this finite nature (respect for life, respect for each other etc., the idea of "respect"). Separately, I think the term "respect" has been taken over by game theroretic ways of thinking, which I find disappointing. Such is life, I suppose.
First off, I think everyone deals with this at some point. I think, also, since you are always changing as a person, what helps you cope at one point of your life might not work as life goes on. Various things have all contributed, in some way or another, to helping me in the past and present. Most recently, I came across a VSauce video from a year ago:
"Do Chairs Exist?" by VSauce [1].
Now, the thrust of the video deals with mereology [2]. However, the final line from Michael at the end surprised me a lot, and in the days since watching it, has been an extremely strong comfort for me:
"I am not a thing that dies and becomes scattered, I AM death and I AM the scattering."
I think it is worth spending the 40 minutes to watch the whole thing, as makes this line make more sense and extremely impactful. Anyway, this helped me recently, maybe it can help someone else :)
Life is finite, life is short. It can also feel quite long in certain stretches, particularly when you are in any kind of agony (whether physical, emotional, or in your case philosophical). But ultimately it is quite short, especially compared to the scale of things we can be aware of but not directly perceive. It is a painful realization, but usually this pain passes. It will pass more quickly if you don't try to fight it, eg by trying to figure out a solution or by wallowing.
It is repeated acts of acceptance that will get you through this painful realization. It is even possible to become cheerful about the whole endeavor. But the first step is to stop bashing your head against the brick wall of reality thinking that somehow helps you to keep doing it. Accept and experience the pain of your realization, as deeply as you need to, but stop wallowing and digging yourself deeper into the unpleasantness of it.
Of course you can lose yourself entirely if you devote your life to plumbing the depths of sadness that can be evoked by staying locked into all the loss you will ever experience as often as you can. Choose not to do that. It doesn't help anything, and it hurts far more than necessary like digging into an open wound for days and weeks on end. It doesn't mean pretending the reality away. Just experience the pain and move on with your day.
Eventually, like an adult who no longer breaks down in tears over a stubbed toe, you'll get used to experiencing the pain without it effecting your mind too much. You might even give a sad, knowing smile to yourself from time to time when these thoughts arise. This is the first signs you are on the track to cheerful acceptance of our mortality, which is an incredible tool to have in life.
Good luck with your profound struggles, and may they lead you somewhere worthwhile!
It's a realization we all have at one point. We all come to different conclusions about it.
For me, I heard someone say something to the effect of "Plant trees you will never rest in the shade of" and like, that hit a weak spot for me. Right through the armor. I changed a lot of my life to go out and restore ecosystems, restore healthy forests, and plant trees.
I think what I am about to share is the Jewish perspective although I suspect many people have the same view.
I imagine the following scenario. I am old, I have several grown children who have grown up to be good strong people and who are starting families of their own, I have set up systems that continue to support charitable causes that I care about, I reflect on my past with fondness (eg people I helped and mentored, things I built, etc.)
In that scenario, does death bother me? Not in the least. Because the things that I care about (family, ideas, causes) continue. Knowing that things I deeply care about go on is the big thing.
So then rather than worrying about death, life becomes about doing things in such a way that maximizes the chances of these outcomes. Regardless of whether I believe in a literal after-life, I believe in this metaphorical after life strongly.
Life and our eventual death is f-ing scary. Anything anyone wants to do to help cope with that, no matter how batshit crazy it is to other people, is fine by me (as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else).
The Epicureans would put this on their tombstone: I was not. I was. I am not. I do not care.
You will die and you won't care. Why worry about that fact now and ruin your life?
Socrates made another point: do you mind going to sleep at night? What is sleep but the suspension of consciousness? Death is the same. Or there is an afterlife and then you don't need to worry about it.
While there are plenty of historical thoughts on this, a recent and profound take on it is Everything Everywhere All at Once. If you haven't seen it, check it out.
Your only data point is being sucked into existence and having no knowledge if you existed before. You will die, but you are not you.
Have you considered taking magic mushrooms in a clinical setting where it’s legal? Simple drugs can let you dissociate to understand that you are not a single conscious being; you just operate like one.
Honestly for me, I almost take comfort in this thought. Everything is temporary. Enjoy it as you can. Nothing will matter soon - so who cares if you make mistakes, nobody can possibly judge you. There is no objective other than what you decide to aim for, so just go and live life :)
I haven’t heard anyone express this before, but when it comes to my death and the deaths of others, I take comfort in the idea of the Block Universe. On the Block Universe concept, time isn’t real in the way we think about it—everything that ever happened or will happen exists in a timeless, eternal block of spacetime. (This video by Sabine Hossenfelder explains it nicely: https://youtu.be/GwzN5YwMzv0.)
If this is true, then our lives are eternal—not in the way envisioned by religious people, but eternal in a very real sense. It’s true that I am finite in time in exactly the same way that I’m finite in space, but just as I don’t lament the fact that my body isn’t infinitely large, I shouldn’t lament the fact that my life doesn’t extend through all of time. (I wouldn’t mind living for a lot longer, but that’s a different matter :-D.)
I realize this conception of immortality will be too abstract to provide any consolation to many people. But ideas of an afterlife or reincarnation are abstract, too. This one at least has the advantage, to my mind, of being plausible.
It’s not that I once was not, then I was, and after I die I will be no more. My life, my presence, this experience—it’s eternal and ever-present.
Isn't it like between a rock and a hard place.
Can you think of an existence where one is never able to die? Or even worse in that your consciousness is never able to stop existing?
Somehow, it feels ceasing to exist is a kinder option than existing forever.
I'll tell you a bit of a secret: when you die you don't really die. First of all - there is no real you. Each human experience is nothing but an illusion. There is no percieved 'self.' We all are everything all at once - an infinite array of lifetimes experiencing everything and perceiving it as a fractured self. In reality - everything that you do you do to yourself. This comes with both dire but also amazing consequences. Each animal you slaughter is you. Each hero you elevate is also you in another timeline. You are all that is and everything that will be - you just don't fully understand it yet. This response that I'm writing is to myself and yes I'm fully aware of it. You should read this is water by David Foster Wallace to maybe get a glimpse of what I'm talking about but even then it's a very small glimpse of who we truly are. Also you should thank god that you don't live forever. Living forever would be hell in your current form. Trust me on this one. Enjoy and fully embrace this life :)
> When we talk about hopelessness and death, we're talking about facing the facts. No escapism. We may still have addictions of all kinds, but we cease to believe in them as a gateway to happiness. So many times we've indulged the short-term pleasure of addiction. We've done it so many times that we know that grasping at this hope is a source of misery that makes a short-term pleasure a long-term hell.
> Giving up hope is encouragement to stick with yourself, to make friends with yourself, to not run away from yourself, to return to the bare bones, no matter what's going on. Fear of death is the background of the whole thing. It's why we feel restless, why we panic, why there's anxiety. But if we totally experience hopelessness, giving up all hope of alternatives of the present moment, we can have a joyful relationship with our lives, an honest, direct relationship, one that no longer ignores the reality of impermanence and death.
I always thought bee communication through "dancing" was visual. On reading more, it seems the bees build up electric charge which interacts with the antennae on other bees.
Excerpt [1]:
> Honeybees accumulate an electric charge during flying. Bees emit constant and modulated electric fields during the waggle dance. Both low- and high-frequency components emitted by dancing bees induce passive antennal movements in stationary bees. The electrically charged flagella of mechanoreceptor cells are moved by electric fields and more strongly so if sound and electric fields interact. Recordings from axons of the Johnston's organ indicate its sensitivity to electric fields. Therefore, it has been suggested that electric fields emanating from the surface charge of bees stimulate mechanoreceptors and may play a role in social communication during the waggle dance.
This does need the context that you would communicate much more with your hive then just death and weddings. You need to build a relation with them. Ask permission to enter the hive, take good care of them, all that. And yes, there are people (like me) that still do it that way. And yes, I do think our bees / colonies recognise me and my wife as their keepers.
Love this! It effectively a type of therapy or mindfulness for bee keepers, much like prayers and confession.
I wander if as we all start to use chat based LLMs in our everyday lives similar "superstitions" and traditions may appear? People telling them the things that have happened in their lives...
One of the reasons why Terry Pratchett's _Discworld_ books are so beloved by its fans is that he was very widely read, and put lots of things in his books where you go "ha, nice world building, gives his fantasy world a good fantasy like feel" and then later find out he just took something real and copied it.
Also a framing device in Laline Paull's novel _The Bees_, which otherwise mostly features bee characters, and is pretty accurate to what we know of bee's lives and social organization. It's one of my favorite novels!
(Yes, bees don't have much individuality, perhaps she gives them more than they really have to make a book, but it's also part of the fun to see how she succesfully makes a story from characters mostly without much personality or individuality).
I recently watched a video where someone visits the Hadza, a Tanzanian hunter-gatherer people, and asks them about life and goes on a hunt with them.
They say the important things in life are to have meat from hunting and to have honey from the bees, and that’s it. Meat and honey is the meaning of life.
The Museum of Jurassic Technology in Los Angeles has a nice exhibit on this, "Tell the Bees... Belief, Knowledge and Hypersymbolic Cognition" https://www.mjt.org/exhibits/bees/bees.htm
Can you imagine the scandal if the Royal Beekeeper failed to do his duty, and the bees became angry, and swarmed and stung the Royal Family during the Coronation; how frightful. How do you explain that to the kids.
Yeah, that used to be done in Czech rural regions, but > 50 years ago.
One distant relative was a beekeeper (indeed a teacher of beekeeping) and when he died around 1970, his wife (born 1922, my great-aunt) would tell the bees.
So I just learned about this custom from this post, and after an hour, I've started watching the Midsomer Murders, and a reference to this tradition pops up. You know, like you learn a new word, and suddenly the word starts popping up everywhere
Reminds me of a book by Stanislav Lem, 'the Invincible'. The alien in the book was a swarm of very small robot, maybe the people who tell the bees are thinking of them as some collective swarm intelligence, or something like that...
[+] [-] protoman3000|2 years ago|reply
I can’t get over the fact that we all must die. Everybody you ever knew and could be able to know will. You who are reading this message, I, all the other significant people in our lives, all the users on this platform. Everybody who is right now experiencing their consciousness in this universe. All the consciousnesses before - the person in the article who asked to tell the bees about their dead.
It’s as if whatever is and ever could be completely collapses once your consciousness is gone. Saying it doesn’t make sense to try to make sense about it makes no sense because once it’s over it’s as if there never was and will be no sense to begin with.
It’s filling me with nothing but deep dread, tears, pain and suffering all over my body.
Still, beautiful to see how others tried to cope with it by telling the bees.
[+] [-] KineticLensman|2 years ago|reply
I now accept that it could happen again at essentially any time, and that the defibrillation might not work. And yet my life continues pretty much as normal (although I'm no longer able to drive). I still get up, do the chores, enjoy the other aspects of my life, get bored, etc etc.
I've recognised that there is a difference between death itself (which doesn't now frighten me), and the process that causes it. I've now come to believe that VF is actually how I would like to die, when the time comes. It seems infinitely preferable to a slow painful process due to cancer, or Alzheimer's.
[+] [-] openasocket|2 years ago|reply
I try to take comfort in the fact that, as crazy as it seems, I really am a sentient ape on a spinning ball. My experiences right here, right now, prove that there is something instead of nothing. And things don’t have to make sense to me for things to be real. In fact, whatever the absolute truth of the universe is, it’s probably too complex for us to comprehend, let alone for us to figure out. Even as a Christian, I accept that large parts of my beliefs are completely wrong, or at best simplifications. Because the absolute truth is something beyond understanding.
I don’t know, saying it out loud doesn’t feel very comforting. I had a bit of an attack of existential dread typing this out. But I felt the need to share my experience with you
[+] [-] koonsolo|2 years ago|reply
The thing is, a wave is basically some water particles and energy. The water particles don't go away, and as we know from physics, neither does the energy. So how can a wave die when all of its components don't die?
The truth is, a wave doesn't really exist. It's a concept in our head. "Here is some part of water that is higher than the rest, let's call it a wave". And now the wave can be "born" in the sea and "die" at the beach. But in fact nothing was created nor removed. It's just a concept. Everything is in fact interconnected. The disconnected parts that we see are concepts in our head. A tree, the sun, the rain, grass, ... . Nothing stands on its own.
You and me and everyone here, we are just concepts like the wave. What are you composed of? Some DNA from your ancestors, some cultural influence, the plants and animals you eat, the water you drink. After the concept of "you" dies, everything is still here. Everything that you were composed of is still here.
You're not an entity on your own. You are interconnected with everything around you. You are the water you drink and the water is you. Your thoughts are the thoughts of your ancestors, of your fellow humans, etc, and your thoughts are theirs.
So even if the waves die on the beach, the sea is still there. An therefore, the waves are also still there.
[+] [-] jchw|2 years ago|reply
> Because we don't know when we will die, we get to think of life as an inexhaustible well. Yet everything happens only a certain number of times, and a very small number really. How many more times will you remember a certain afternoon of your childhood, an afternoon that is so deeply a part of your being that you can't even conceive of your life without it? Perhaps four, five times more, perhaps not even that. How many more times will you watch the full moon rise? Perhaps 20. And yet it all seems limitless.
-- Paul Bowles
[+] [-] alangou|2 years ago|reply
It turns out this question—how do we contend with the question of death?—is one of the most, if not the most, studied questions in human history, second perhaps only to why we came to exist. The collective answer by each of the world's cultures is encoded in myth, poetry, and spiritual and religious traditions. I would recommend the Bhagavad Gita, translated and commentated by Eknath Easwaran (https://www.amazon.com/Bhagavad-Gita-2nd-Eknath-Easwaran/dp/...). It's not necessary to practice or believe in any particular religion to gain something valuable from these books, nor is it incompatible with science to delve spiritually.
[+] [-] nonameiguess|2 years ago|reply
All the things people try to save, themselves, their cultures, their religion, their species, the earth, it is all not only temporary, but barely an infinitesimal slice of nothingness, a rounding error indistinguishable from zero on any global timeline. At the same time, it's a miracle we ever got to exist at all. Enjoy what you get and stop longing for the impossible. Everything will die. Whoever or whatever you love, go love it while you still have the chance.
[+] [-] wruza|2 years ago|reply
That means you are actually a billions-eyed monster whose eyes grow anew and go blind from time to time. Rather than fearing being gone, fear that you, right now and in the past, experience the horror of existence of all organisms that ever existed. Be thankful for your current “eye”’s relative comfort which is rare. And dread the next experience somewhere in <choose a shithole> as a <choose your species>.
[+] [-] enw|2 years ago|reply
In any case, pain and other conscious beings are as real as it gets, so no matter how brief one lifetime is, you can have a real impact by making it better for those around you.
[+] [-] eszed|2 years ago|reply
I'm still moderately afraid of _dying_ - pain is unpleasant, and so is loss of physical faculties - but the non-existence part of death? I've been there, and it's no big deal.
I doubt this helps you - it wouldn't have helped me, had I been told it prior to experiencing it - but it is immensely comforting to me now.
[+] [-] downWidOutaFite|2 years ago|reply
This point of view is good for thinking environmentally, "we" will live forever as long as we keep the planet habitable. But there's a range of other perspectives between the individual and planet-wide organism. For example, some like to focus on keeping their nation alive, or their race, or their culture, or just their own bloodline. If you elevate any of these it lessens the despair of the inevitable death of the individual.
[+] [-] RestlessAPI|2 years ago|reply
When you first walk through the gate it's like 8am and it's incredible. There's so much to do and see. So much potential. You don't know where to start.
So you get a map and you look at all the rides and attractions and you start doing them by what interests you.
As the day goes on, you're having a great time but you kinda have to take a break at 3-4pm because your feet kinda hurt and youre hungry.
But you still have the other half of the park to get to so you get back to it.
Eventually, night time rolls around and you did everything you wanted to do. You rode all the rides that looked fun, and you saw all the attractions that looked fun.
Now, you have been wandering around main street looking at all the shops, wondering what you're going to buy as you wait for the fireworks display, and you realize, you're exhausted. You have been on your feet since early this morning. You have walked literally 20 miles today. You have had a great time though.
The firework show starts and it's just fantastic. It spends the rest of the mental energy you have and then it's time to head back to the hotel and go to sleep.
Now instead, imagine that someone locks the front gate and you can never leave. You can never go home. You can never sleep again. You must stay in the park forever. Imagine how exhausting that sounds...
Obviously I am equating this to the life events of being born, being a kid, living life as a young adult through mature adult, through your senior years until it's time for you to pass on. And being trapped in the park is like living forever...
Realize that by the time it's all over, you should be able to look back and say "I rode all the rides I wanted and I eat all the waffle cake I could", rather than "Boy I really wish I didn't complain that my feet were sore for an hour and I never got to ride that one ride".
[+] [-] ramses0|2 years ago|reply
I made a reference a few years ago to "Let's put on the 'Theme Song from Rocky' and get this done!" (in reference to having figured out a bugfix or something for the project of the day), and I was met with blank stares by my (admittedly younger) co-workers. It really kindof broke me for a second that something that was _such_ a cultural phenomenon is currently "unimportant" or "irrelevant".
If "The Theme Song from Rocky" can be forgotten, what chance do I have of making an indelible mark on life?
Maybe John Wayne movies still come on every once in a while, but as a global community, we're losing a lot of "broadcast shared culture" in favor of "unicast, A/B-tested, divisive entertainment", and specifically "entertainment" rather than "culture".
So don't focus on making an indelible mark on life-at-large, or being a larger-than-life character like John Wayne... but instead focus on making positive impacts to the people closest to you, and especially yourself.
<3
[+] [-] socceroos|2 years ago|reply
I'm a Christian and, oddly, don't suffer from the same existential dread as most admit any more, but I used to be consumed by it.
The simplest way I could say it is this: once you are shown what is behind the curtain and you place your trust in the one who's running the show then dread gives way to overwhelming peace. That's what happened for me and I guarantee that anyone who seeks the same true God will find the same peace.
Easy to dismiss, I know, but I guarantee it's true. Odd, eh?
Part of dealing with your existential dread is accepting the fact that you're right to be afraid, but not for the reasons you first think. This will be a bridge too far for some, but a discerning reading of this could be the catalyst some need: https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/edwards_jonathan/Sermon...
[+] [-] run2arun|2 years ago|reply
I take comfort in participating in this huge system of life and death and in knowing that billions have lived ordinary lives and died. I don't dye my hair and don't ignore signs of aging. I'm happy to grow older and retire and reduce my needs and spend more time with friends and family and when I die I'll join the legion of billions of decent, hardworking, perfectly ordinary people. It's a fine group to be part of.
[+] [-] asielen|2 years ago|reply
This life is only one we have so why not make it the best for everyone.What else is the point of life but to live to the fullest and help everyone else live to their fullest (happiest). You can't take it with you, there is no prize for dying with the most money or power.
The meaning of life is only what we want it to be.
[+] [-] lusus_naturae|2 years ago|reply
What you're feeling has lead to civilization, essentially. I think the finite nature of a human life isn't an inherent property of the concept of humanity, but I think a lot of the ideals thats we use to define humanity are born from this finite nature (respect for life, respect for each other etc., the idea of "respect"). Separately, I think the term "respect" has been taken over by game theroretic ways of thinking, which I find disappointing. Such is life, I suppose.
[+] [-] axolotlgod|2 years ago|reply
"Do Chairs Exist?" by VSauce [1].
Now, the thrust of the video deals with mereology [2]. However, the final line from Michael at the end surprised me a lot, and in the days since watching it, has been an extremely strong comfort for me:
"I am not a thing that dies and becomes scattered, I AM death and I AM the scattering."
I think it is worth spending the 40 minutes to watch the whole thing, as makes this line make more sense and extremely impactful. Anyway, this helped me recently, maybe it can help someone else :)
[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXW-QjBsruE [2]: https://plato.stanford.edu/Archives/sum2005/entries/mereolog...
[+] [-] InSteady|2 years ago|reply
It is repeated acts of acceptance that will get you through this painful realization. It is even possible to become cheerful about the whole endeavor. But the first step is to stop bashing your head against the brick wall of reality thinking that somehow helps you to keep doing it. Accept and experience the pain of your realization, as deeply as you need to, but stop wallowing and digging yourself deeper into the unpleasantness of it.
Of course you can lose yourself entirely if you devote your life to plumbing the depths of sadness that can be evoked by staying locked into all the loss you will ever experience as often as you can. Choose not to do that. It doesn't help anything, and it hurts far more than necessary like digging into an open wound for days and weeks on end. It doesn't mean pretending the reality away. Just experience the pain and move on with your day.
Eventually, like an adult who no longer breaks down in tears over a stubbed toe, you'll get used to experiencing the pain without it effecting your mind too much. You might even give a sad, knowing smile to yourself from time to time when these thoughts arise. This is the first signs you are on the track to cheerful acceptance of our mortality, which is an incredible tool to have in life.
Good luck with your profound struggles, and may they lead you somewhere worthwhile!
[+] [-] postmortembees|2 years ago|reply
For me, I heard someone say something to the effect of "Plant trees you will never rest in the shade of" and like, that hit a weak spot for me. Right through the armor. I changed a lot of my life to go out and restore ecosystems, restore healthy forests, and plant trees.
[+] [-] xyzelement|2 years ago|reply
I think what I am about to share is the Jewish perspective although I suspect many people have the same view.
I imagine the following scenario. I am old, I have several grown children who have grown up to be good strong people and who are starting families of their own, I have set up systems that continue to support charitable causes that I care about, I reflect on my past with fondness (eg people I helped and mentored, things I built, etc.)
In that scenario, does death bother me? Not in the least. Because the things that I care about (family, ideas, causes) continue. Knowing that things I deeply care about go on is the big thing.
So then rather than worrying about death, life becomes about doing things in such a way that maximizes the chances of these outcomes. Regardless of whether I believe in a literal after-life, I believe in this metaphorical after life strongly.
[+] [-] samwillis|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] enkid|2 years ago|reply
You will die and you won't care. Why worry about that fact now and ruin your life?
Socrates made another point: do you mind going to sleep at night? What is sleep but the suspension of consciousness? Death is the same. Or there is an afterlife and then you don't need to worry about it.
[+] [-] efsavage|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] geraldwhen|2 years ago|reply
Have you considered taking magic mushrooms in a clinical setting where it’s legal? Simple drugs can let you dissociate to understand that you are not a single conscious being; you just operate like one.
[+] [-] bashd4|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] glennonymous|2 years ago|reply
If this is true, then our lives are eternal—not in the way envisioned by religious people, but eternal in a very real sense. It’s true that I am finite in time in exactly the same way that I’m finite in space, but just as I don’t lament the fact that my body isn’t infinitely large, I shouldn’t lament the fact that my life doesn’t extend through all of time. (I wouldn’t mind living for a lot longer, but that’s a different matter :-D.)
I realize this conception of immortality will be too abstract to provide any consolation to many people. But ideas of an afterlife or reincarnation are abstract, too. This one at least has the advantage, to my mind, of being plausible.
It’s not that I once was not, then I was, and after I die I will be no more. My life, my presence, this experience—it’s eternal and ever-present.
[+] [-] cuttothechase|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] photon_lines|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jrochkind1|2 years ago|reply
> When we talk about hopelessness and death, we're talking about facing the facts. No escapism. We may still have addictions of all kinds, but we cease to believe in them as a gateway to happiness. So many times we've indulged the short-term pleasure of addiction. We've done it so many times that we know that grasping at this hope is a source of misery that makes a short-term pleasure a long-term hell.
> Giving up hope is encouragement to stick with yourself, to make friends with yourself, to not run away from yourself, to return to the bare bones, no matter what's going on. Fear of death is the background of the whole thing. It's why we feel restless, why we panic, why there's anxiety. But if we totally experience hopelessness, giving up all hope of alternatives of the present moment, we can have a joyful relationship with our lives, an honest, direct relationship, one that no longer ignores the reality of impermanence and death.
[+] [-] Tepix|2 years ago|reply
Realizing that there is likely no god means facing this very existential feeling as well as loneliness. There is no god you can talk to.
PS: Even if there is a "god" that caused the big bang billions of years ago, it won't interact with you in any way.
[+] [-] whytai|2 years ago|reply
Excerpt [1]:
> Honeybees accumulate an electric charge during flying. Bees emit constant and modulated electric fields during the waggle dance. Both low- and high-frequency components emitted by dancing bees induce passive antennal movements in stationary bees. The electrically charged flagella of mechanoreceptor cells are moved by electric fields and more strongly so if sound and electric fields interact. Recordings from axons of the Johnston's organ indicate its sensitivity to electric fields. Therefore, it has been suggested that electric fields emanating from the surface charge of bees stimulate mechanoreceptors and may play a role in social communication during the waggle dance.
[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waggle_dance#Mechanism
[+] [-] theiz|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] samwillis|2 years ago|reply
I wander if as we all start to use chat based LLMs in our everyday lives similar "superstitions" and traditions may appear? People telling them the things that have happened in their lives...
[+] [-] Scarblac|2 years ago|reply
This practice is in _Carpe Jugulum_, IIRC.
[+] [-] dang|2 years ago|reply
Telling the Bees - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28667197 - Sept 2021 (59 comments)
[+] [-] renewiltord|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jrochkind1|2 years ago|reply
(Yes, bees don't have much individuality, perhaps she gives them more than they really have to make a book, but it's also part of the fun to see how she succesfully makes a story from characters mostly without much personality or individuality).
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/18652002
[+] [-] lynguist|2 years ago|reply
They say the important things in life are to have meat from hunting and to have honey from the bees, and that’s it. Meat and honey is the meaning of life.
The videos are:
1: https://youtu.be/TAGjuRwx_Y8 Asking questions to some Hadza
2: https://youtu.be/Ny4bHOnSg0o Going hunting with the Hadza
[+] [-] kdamica|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] NoMoreNicksLeft|2 years ago|reply
How could they not know that they needed to twerk it to communicate these messages?
[+] [-] bbtfan|2 years ago|reply
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adbrWWnyMKg
[+] [-] dools|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jjwiseman|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] NoZebra120vClip|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] inglor_cz|2 years ago|reply
One distant relative was a beekeeper (indeed a teacher of beekeeping) and when he died around 1970, his wife (born 1922, my great-aunt) would tell the bees.
[+] [-] TRiG_Ireland|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rex_lupi|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MichaelMoser123|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] travisgriggs|2 years ago|reply