Two days ago, I updated Stellarium Mobile. On launch, it now requires that you are logged into the Play Store. No more anonymous Android usage.
I emailed the developer with what I saw in adb logcat, they came back yesterday with this:
> I see your point. The new google verification code requires a google play account it seems. It works with some third party stores, but you need a google account..
> This is probably going to be the case for most apps in the future because Google is pushing for this feature to be enabled by default for all Google Play apps at submission time..
so that's the end of being able to grab apks via Aurora (an alternative, open source client for the play store), at least if the app has any sort of billing function which is not uncommon even for open source apps (think donations). Maybe this is Google's response to the requirement to feeling threatened by needing to give up the app repository monopoly?
My LG-C1 does this nonsense. It requires me to have an LG account to download 90% the apps I want (except the big dog streaming services of course) like Plex or GeForce Now. Interestingly enough it allows YouTube but not YouTube kids.
I’ve so far held out and am considering just getting some sort of Nvidia shield-like device (heard they sadly went down the drain over the last few years) to handle all my apps.
So basically LG is asking me to 1) have an account for internet which is separate from 2) my account for my TV which is separate from 3) the myriad of other apps I want to use and require logging in. But of course they leave out the big players that would (rightfully) call this burdensome on the consumer as they make sure access to their content is as streamlined as possible. So Disney/Netflix/Amazon/YouTube/Hulu get around this but everyone else doesn’t.
And execs are wondering why account sharing is so common and piracy is on the rise.
Aurora still works, you just can't use the search, you enable the search tab and it directs to google play in browser , then you hit a button to send the direct link back to app
The page isn’t clear on if the info has to be shown or can be shown.
I get doing more to verify developers (ignoring what I think of DUNS).
But acting as an individual developer if I were to think of creating an app for Android and saw that I had to publicly post my phone number that would be an absolute dead stop to development.
Minimally, for one who wants to keep a personal number private, this will raise the barrier to entry with an ongoing cost for a separate number.
Still, it’s a win for less technical users -- who ostensibly have never installed an alternative store -- considering they’ll be less likely to recognize scammy apps like the flashlights of old.
If you view the "Full Policy" link, it does seem to state that it must be shown. "where applicable" is vague though...
Before you submit your app, you must:
Accurately provide your developer account information, including the following details:
* Legal name and address
* D-U-N-S number, if registering as an organization
* Contact email address and phone number
* Developer email address and phone number shown on Google Play where applicable
* Payment methods where applicable
* Google payment profile linked to your developer account
1. As a customer, knowing I can call you goes a long way towards establishing your legitimacy in this day and age of overflowing junk devs and junkware. It's a way of demonstrating and establishing liability, FSVO liability.
2. If you don't want your personal phone number published, which is perfectly justifiable, provide your business phone number. Don't own a business? Go and register one at your local government office. It's probably better for you to publish software under a business instead of your personal name anyway.
But Google doesn't require you to provide a phone number that reaches a human. It just needs a phone number. It could be voicemail only. It's the equivalent of Google providing a generic phone number like 6502530000 on their own business listing. Is there any expectation that this number leads to a human customer support agent that can actually help you? No.
Depends on the product. If it's something you pay for, you can get a phone number. For example, GPay and Play store for billing issues has an accessible phone numbers.
Any place where scaling customer support to the revenue vs number of users tends to lead to a lack of phone numbers.
What percentage of existing app developers on the Play Store do not have a DUNS number? Do they need to incorporate an LLC in order to get a DUNS number for their open source project?
Google decided to take the first 15% of app developers' first $1M in revenue instead of 30% in 2021. Google decided to take a 30% cut from all Play Store app and in-app revenue, and you may only use Google Payments in your app (just like Apple).
$150,000 out of $1,000,000 is a lot of money to host downloads, comments, and scan APKs. Shopping malls don't even demand a 15%-30% cut of revenue.
>Shopping malls don't even demand a 15%-30% cut of revenue.
Shopping malls charged rent, and if you look up typical rent-to-revenue ratios you'll find that ~10% is in the range of average, ~20% around the the top end of the range, so not far off the 15% but yes, a bargain compared to 30%. But then again shopping malls don't scan a store's products for basic problems or defects.
On balance, if malls & rent are the comparison point, they roughly balance.
Sure a mall can't, in theory, prevent another group of investors from building a mall #2 next door. In practice though? Local township and city boards can be subverted through regulatory capture such that the people behind the financial interests of mall #1 will make it difficult for mall #2 to get local zoning approvals etc. And really most franchises aren't going to want to setup a competing location within two or three miles of an existing location anyway, but getting in geolocation stretches the metaphor so we can put that aside, as rent is the relevant aspect of the comparison.
> F-droid charges $0 to host APK app downloads and comments but doesn't scan APKs IIUC?
Correct. I've donated before to cover my usage for a while as well as contributed some translations, but it's all volunteer stuff and it's not like we are eager to gatekeep each other's work (assuming that's what you meant by app scanning before publishing).
The quality of things on F-Droid varies as much as it does on google's gated repository, but I have yet to come across a single instance of adware, let alone malware. The store also hosts old versions, so if you don't like the latest changes in an app, you can just hit downgrade. And old apps are not removed if not broken; there's no requirement to keep up with sdk targeting blah. Finished or abandoned products do not have to be kept up-to-date constantly. They look old, but work just fine; google just forbids that.
Reading the blog post and linked question/answer, the phone number requirement only applies to organization accounts, not to personal accounts. What is unclear is whether a non-US organization is able to create and use a D-U-N-S number -- especially if they don't have an office in the US.
The platform fee of 30% is completely independent from the cost of running the store. The value of the Play store is the reach it provides app developers.
Several years ago I discovered that the Chrome Web Store was giving out my home address to customers on the email receipt. There was no physical address set in my Chrome Web Store developer profile, but there was an address set in Google Pay. (This was before the Chrome Web Store eliminated its payment system.)
As soon as I found out, I changed my business address to Google's own address in Mountain View. Google didn't seem to have a problem with this, or didn't notice it anyway.
The "good news" is that my Chrome Web Store sales were quite low. But I never would have known if a customer hadn't emailed me a copy of their receipt (perhaps to get a refund, I don't recall).
When I signed up for Substack, I saw that there was a setting for "mailing address," which is pre-populated with Substack's mailing address.
Why? Because apparently there's a law that at the bottom of commercial email, you need to have a mailing address and unsubscribe link.
(So I guess if they got any mail for you, they'd let you know somehow?)
Similarly for getting a domain name. Technically, you are required to provide your mailing address, email address, and phone number. However, most registrars will let you keep them private and use theirs instead.
Perhaps something similar will happen for Android developers? There could be a relatively lightweight and user-friendly company that handles Play Store listings for indy developers.
Do such companies exist already? It would be interesting to hear from developers who use them.
Now not only will you be forced to endure unsolicited emails about boosting your app's ranking, but also unsolicited phone calls. I recently got a new phone number and it's already doomed to eternally receive phone calls about "boosting your business's ranking" because it was once listed on Google Maps for a business
And you've got to give all your info to some consultancy! " the information that Dun & Bradstreet has about your business is up to date before creating a developer account"
Interesting if you'd be interested in tracking both the play store listing number effectiveness at generating leads CallTrackingMetrics company can help. We focus on connecting humans to other humans.
There could be a big issue, as some websites are already scraping Play Store for developer emails, now they will have phone numbers too. And good luck removing them from some random apk download website.
looks like a direct response to EU agreement https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_23_...
"Furthermore, Google will facilitate also information on the company (e.g. legal name and address) and direct and effective contact points (e.g. a live telephone agent);"
[+] [-] lucb1e|2 years ago|reply
Two days ago, I updated Stellarium Mobile. On launch, it now requires that you are logged into the Play Store. No more anonymous Android usage.
I emailed the developer with what I saw in adb logcat, they came back yesterday with this:
> I see your point. The new google verification code requires a google play account it seems. It works with some third party stores, but you need a google account..
> This is probably going to be the case for most apps in the future because Google is pushing for this feature to be enabled by default for all Google Play apps at submission time..
so that's the end of being able to grab apks via Aurora (an alternative, open source client for the play store), at least if the app has any sort of billing function which is not uncommon even for open source apps (think donations). Maybe this is Google's response to the requirement to feeling threatened by needing to give up the app repository monopoly?
[+] [-] Forgeties79|2 years ago|reply
I’ve so far held out and am considering just getting some sort of Nvidia shield-like device (heard they sadly went down the drain over the last few years) to handle all my apps.
So basically LG is asking me to 1) have an account for internet which is separate from 2) my account for my TV which is separate from 3) the myriad of other apps I want to use and require logging in. But of course they leave out the big players that would (rightfully) call this burdensome on the consumer as they make sure access to their content is as streamlined as possible. So Disney/Netflix/Amazon/YouTube/Hulu get around this but everyone else doesn’t.
And execs are wondering why account sharing is so common and piracy is on the rise.
[+] [-] impissedoff1|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Aeolun|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MBCook|2 years ago|reply
I get doing more to verify developers (ignoring what I think of DUNS).
But acting as an individual developer if I were to think of creating an app for Android and saw that I had to publicly post my phone number that would be an absolute dead stop to development.
[+] [-] lcnPylGDnU4H9OF|2 years ago|reply
Still, it’s a win for less technical users -- who ostensibly have never installed an alternative store -- considering they’ll be less likely to recognize scammy apps like the flashlights of old.
[+] [-] MrZander|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Dalewyn|2 years ago|reply
2. If you don't want your personal phone number published, which is perfectly justifiable, provide your business phone number. Don't own a business? Go and register one at your local government office. It's probably better for you to publish software under a business instead of your personal name anyway.
[+] [-] flakiness|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kccqzy|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] emestifs|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kccqzy|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] kyrra|2 years ago|reply
Any place where scaling customer support to the revenue vs number of users tends to lead to a lack of phone numbers.
(Googler, opinions are my own)
[+] [-] westurner|2 years ago|reply
Google decided to take the first 15% of app developers' first $1M in revenue instead of 30% in 2021. Google decided to take a 30% cut from all Play Store app and in-app revenue, and you may only use Google Payments in your app (just like Apple).
$150,000 out of $1,000,000 is a lot of money to host downloads, comments, and scan APKs. Shopping malls don't even demand a 15%-30% cut of revenue.
F-droid charges $0 to host APK app downloads and comments but doesn't scan APKs IIUC? https://f-droid.org/en/docs/Security_Model/
How to donate to F-Droid: https://f-droid.org/en/donate/
[+] [-] nicolas_17|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ineedasername|2 years ago|reply
Shopping malls charged rent, and if you look up typical rent-to-revenue ratios you'll find that ~10% is in the range of average, ~20% around the the top end of the range, so not far off the 15% but yes, a bargain compared to 30%. But then again shopping malls don't scan a store's products for basic problems or defects.
On balance, if malls & rent are the comparison point, they roughly balance.
Sure a mall can't, in theory, prevent another group of investors from building a mall #2 next door. In practice though? Local township and city boards can be subverted through regulatory capture such that the people behind the financial interests of mall #1 will make it difficult for mall #2 to get local zoning approvals etc. And really most franchises aren't going to want to setup a competing location within two or three miles of an existing location anyway, but getting in geolocation stretches the metaphor so we can put that aside, as rent is the relevant aspect of the comparison.
[+] [-] lucb1e|2 years ago|reply
Correct. I've donated before to cover my usage for a while as well as contributed some translations, but it's all volunteer stuff and it's not like we are eager to gatekeep each other's work (assuming that's what you meant by app scanning before publishing).
The quality of things on F-Droid varies as much as it does on google's gated repository, but I have yet to come across a single instance of adware, let alone malware. The store also hosts old versions, so if you don't like the latest changes in an app, you can just hit downgrade. And old apps are not removed if not broken; there's no requirement to keep up with sdk targeting blah. Finished or abandoned products do not have to be kept up-to-date constantly. They look old, but work just fine; google just forbids that.
[+] [-] rhdunn|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] westurner|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] charcircuit|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Mindless2112|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] emestifs|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lapcat|2 years ago|reply
As soon as I found out, I changed my business address to Google's own address in Mountain View. Google didn't seem to have a problem with this, or didn't notice it anyway.
The "good news" is that my Chrome Web Store sales were quite low. But I never would have known if a customer hadn't emailed me a copy of their receipt (perhaps to get a refund, I don't recall).
[+] [-] skybrian|2 years ago|reply
Why? Because apparently there's a law that at the bottom of commercial email, you need to have a mailing address and unsubscribe link.
(So I guess if they got any mail for you, they'd let you know somehow?)
Similarly for getting a domain name. Technically, you are required to provide your mailing address, email address, and phone number. However, most registrars will let you keep them private and use theirs instead.
Perhaps something similar will happen for Android developers? There could be a relatively lightweight and user-friendly company that handles Play Store listings for indy developers.
Do such companies exist already? It would be interesting to hear from developers who use them.
[+] [-] dazbradbury|2 years ago|reply
This assumes Google have to comply with their own policy of course!
[+] [-] voakbasda|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nicolas_17|2 years ago|reply
[1] https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answ...
[+] [-] a2128|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] radley|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] elitistphoenix|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pierat|2 years ago|reply
(In the voice of Mortal Kombat)
[+] [-] nicolas_17|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] LeoPanthera|2 years ago|reply
I currently use an app called "Hushed" but it is extremely expensive, especially compared to how much raw providers like Twilio charge.
There seem to be plenty of "disposable" phone number apps but I just want cheap extra numbers, without having to write code.
[+] [-] unknown|2 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] taf2|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] butz|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pd33|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|2 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] diggernet|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hansvm|2 years ago|reply