The OP claims to be an entrepreneur . And then I read this in the blog:
I had such a long waiting period, that all my energy and momentum was drained. A man with no face, trapped, with no freedom to move or express, waiting for a (seemingly at the time) life-scale type of decision to be made for him.
Really? As an entrepreneur, one shouldn't be so disheartened by the outcome of a process that is totally outside your control. Entrepreneurship is about taking risks, suffering setbacks, and getting up quickly after these setbacks. Not getting a visa isn't something I would consider a huge setback; in this day and age, it is possible to start Internet-based companies almost anywhere. And Europe isn't some backwaters area.
I don't want to sound mean, but to the OP: getting your visa denied isn't a big deal. Just start your company there, and when it becomes big, open an office in the US and stroll in like a boss.
While internet means international network, the internet industry isn't really international. The sooner one realizes that the sooner he/she can get in the right path to success.
While there are always exceptions that prove the rule, there is the rule. And the rule says that the internet industry lies in the SF Bay area.
Examine it under any metric you wish, quantitative or qualitative and you will end up in the same conclusion.
I have entrepreneurial friends in Sweden. Sweden is very progressive in terms of adopting technologies and you have a very strong set of techies and designers to boot. See Spotify, Klarna, etc.
What's the major drawback? Taxes. So, start your company in Sweden, progress it slowly, and then move it somewhere else (SF for example) if you really want to expand quickly.
(12) Investment . An investment is the treaty investor's placing of capital, including funds and other assets (which have not been obtained, directly or indirectly, through criminal activity), at risk in the commercial sense with the objective of generating a profit. The treaty investor must be in possession of and have control over the capital invested or being invested. The capital must be subject to partial or total loss if investment fortunes reverse. Such investment capital must be the investor's unsecured personal business capital or capital secured by personal assets. Capital in the process of being invested or that has been invested must be irrevocably committed to the enterprise. The alien has the burden of establishing such irrevocable commitment. The alien may use any legal mechanism available, such as the placement of invested funds in escrow pending admission in, or approval of, E classification, that would not only irrevocably commit funds to the enterprise, but might also extend personal liability protection t o the treaty investor in the event the application for E classification is denied.
(13) Bona fide enterprise . The enterprise must be a real, active, and operating commercial or entrepreneurial undertaking which produces services or goods for profit. The enterprise must meet applicable legal requirements for doing business in the particular jurisdiction in the United States.
(14) Substantial amount of capital . A substantial amount of capital constitutes an amount which is:
(i) Substantial in relationship to the total cost of either purchasing an established enterprise or creating the type of enterprise under consideration;
(ii) Sufficient to ensure the treaty investor's financial commitment to the successful operation of the enterprise; and
(iii) Of a magnitude to support the likelihood that the treaty investor will successfully develop and direct the enterprise. Generally, the lower the cost of the enterprise, the higher, proportionately, the investment must be to be considered a substantial amount of capital.
(15) Marginal enterprise . For purposes of this section, an enterprise may not be marginal. A marginal enterprise is an enterprise that does not have the present or future capacity to generate more than enough income to provide a minimal living for the treaty investor and his or her family. An enterprise that does not have the capacity to generate such income, but that has a present or future capacity to make a significant economic contribution is not a marginal enterprise. The projected future income-generating capacity should gen erally be realizable within 5 years from the date the alien commences the normal business activity of the enterprise.
I can understand the desire for a start up visa (I would support one) but it doesn't currently exist. Just because you have a friend in France who slipped one by the USCIS doesn't mean that anyone else will be able to.
If you can get $1,000,000 together, check out the EB-5 visa. Another common tactic is to get a business started in your own country and then use an L to open a branch in the United States.
Actually, this is a box-checking exercise, and doesn't stand in the way of setting up a startup. I went through the same process in 1999, and have renewed ever since - and I did all my own paperwork (which is a huge pain), so I'm pretty familiar with how it works.
Initially, I talked to a lawyer about 'doing it right' - but concluded that I would have spent as much time describing it to the lawyer as writing the application myself.
One key point : You must be planning to create a company, not 'do a startup'. Have a business plan, with milestones. Quantify the investment, and project how it will pay back. Rent some office space, and have a contract. The embassy isn't in the business of understanding the Lean Startup experimentation process. They are interested in definite plans to grow a business (and employ Americans, too).
Of course, some of these points in the business plan may have a large 'error bar' on them. But you need to show to the Embassy that you're not crazy - and that they could not be labelled a 'soft touch' for granting the visa. There's no point trying to "slip one by the USCIS" : If that's the way you're thinking about it, that's the way it will appear.
To get the visa, you have to satisfy the regs. To satisfy the regs, you must have documentation that proves that each point, and subpoint, is satisfied. Each of these pieces of evidence needs at least 1 official piece of paper or a whole bunch of other justification.
Apparently, recent changes hold that you can't go over on an L if you are a significant shareholder in either entity. Otherwise that would be a cheap loophole to get through the door.
This is crazy. IMHO, The main draw back is that you can only go thru one lane. Either family, skills or money. Canada has a system that allows you accumulate points in several categories. It is in the best interest of the US to have a system that works.
Ok, I know you have your reasons but why the US ? Why don't you start your startup in your own country or in another European country ? Any good reason for not staying there ?
As an european I sadly see everyone from this side of the world trying desperately be part of the new startup gold rush in the US. Fund startup, get VC money, sell it, ???, profit.
Not very long time ago, I was like you too. I wanted so much to move to SF and build my startup or be part of one. But now, I don't care. Why ?
1 - I can incorporate my company in Delaware right from my living room.
2 - I can have hire good professionals from around the world to work with me (looking at 37signals as a role model)
3 - And quite frankly, the position of the US regarding european citizens that want to live and work in the US is too restrictive and amazingly elitist. Not even Mordor is that hard travel to.
I just wished other countries had the same mesures/restrictions as they do for US citizens that want to live and work abroad.
Europe (although lots of americans couldn't even put it on the map) isn't made of third world countries.
4 - Also, lots of good startups are operating in this side of the world.
So, why are you giving the US all the credits for your work ? If they don't want you, screw it. It's not the end of the world, and your can pretty much do the same thing here as you would over there.
As a developer and founder of a new born company, I feel like we need to show the world that europe is a good place to fund a startup, we might not have the YC or other popular investors, but if more and more startups got created here, maybe they would start looking for us.
Upvoted but I'm not so sure about your number 1. I always thought that you need to have a US bank account (hence US citizenship) to incorporate the company in Delaware. How would you achieve that as a non-US citizen?
Are there surveys of what are the most startup-friendly non-US countries?
I suppose that the things that matters are mostly monetary and boil down to "how much money do I need to pony up in the beginning stages?". On the other hand, if I had to move, I'd move only to a country where I know that I will not refused medical care for any reason and it is unlikely that I can end up in jail or being detained for wearing the wrong t-shirt. Oz?
PS: the website has a .com domain. Ah, irony of being refused a visa from the US while still being somehow under their legal reach.
Except maybe for funding, I don't get the obsession with wanting to base a startup in the US. If you have a good business model and great marketing skills, you should be able to create a successful business anywhere.
Why would he get a visa that legally allows him to work and accurately reflects his intent to enter the US rather than work illegally on a tourist visa that, if discovered, is likely to have you deported and barred from reentry to the United States?
It is costly and only works a few times. Investors will also be (rightfully) nervous of any possibility that you may not be able to stay in the country.
[+] [-] ajays|14 years ago|reply
I had such a long waiting period, that all my energy and momentum was drained. A man with no face, trapped, with no freedom to move or express, waiting for a (seemingly at the time) life-scale type of decision to be made for him.
Really? As an entrepreneur, one shouldn't be so disheartened by the outcome of a process that is totally outside your control. Entrepreneurship is about taking risks, suffering setbacks, and getting up quickly after these setbacks. Not getting a visa isn't something I would consider a huge setback; in this day and age, it is possible to start Internet-based companies almost anywhere. And Europe isn't some backwaters area.
I don't want to sound mean, but to the OP: getting your visa denied isn't a big deal. Just start your company there, and when it becomes big, open an office in the US and stroll in like a boss.
[+] [-] thanasisp|14 years ago|reply
While there are always exceptions that prove the rule, there is the rule. And the rule says that the internet industry lies in the SF Bay area.
Examine it under any metric you wish, quantitative or qualitative and you will end up in the same conclusion.
I have gotten more into this matter in a past post of mine: http://20minus.com/wp/2011/03/20/how-lean-startup-forced-me-...
cheers
[+] [-] mbesto|14 years ago|reply
I have entrepreneurial friends in Sweden. Sweden is very progressive in terms of adopting technologies and you have a very strong set of techies and designers to boot. See Spotify, Klarna, etc.
What's the major drawback? Taxes. So, start your company in Sweden, progress it slowly, and then move it somewhere else (SF for example) if you really want to expand quickly.
[+] [-] bradleyjg|14 years ago|reply
(12) Investment . An investment is the treaty investor's placing of capital, including funds and other assets (which have not been obtained, directly or indirectly, through criminal activity), at risk in the commercial sense with the objective of generating a profit. The treaty investor must be in possession of and have control over the capital invested or being invested. The capital must be subject to partial or total loss if investment fortunes reverse. Such investment capital must be the investor's unsecured personal business capital or capital secured by personal assets. Capital in the process of being invested or that has been invested must be irrevocably committed to the enterprise. The alien has the burden of establishing such irrevocable commitment. The alien may use any legal mechanism available, such as the placement of invested funds in escrow pending admission in, or approval of, E classification, that would not only irrevocably commit funds to the enterprise, but might also extend personal liability protection t o the treaty investor in the event the application for E classification is denied.
(13) Bona fide enterprise . The enterprise must be a real, active, and operating commercial or entrepreneurial undertaking which produces services or goods for profit. The enterprise must meet applicable legal requirements for doing business in the particular jurisdiction in the United States.
(14) Substantial amount of capital . A substantial amount of capital constitutes an amount which is:
(i) Substantial in relationship to the total cost of either purchasing an established enterprise or creating the type of enterprise under consideration;
(ii) Sufficient to ensure the treaty investor's financial commitment to the successful operation of the enterprise; and
(iii) Of a magnitude to support the likelihood that the treaty investor will successfully develop and direct the enterprise. Generally, the lower the cost of the enterprise, the higher, proportionately, the investment must be to be considered a substantial amount of capital.
(15) Marginal enterprise . For purposes of this section, an enterprise may not be marginal. A marginal enterprise is an enterprise that does not have the present or future capacity to generate more than enough income to provide a minimal living for the treaty investor and his or her family. An enterprise that does not have the capacity to generate such income, but that has a present or future capacity to make a significant economic contribution is not a marginal enterprise. The projected future income-generating capacity should gen erally be realizable within 5 years from the date the alien commences the normal business activity of the enterprise.
I can understand the desire for a start up visa (I would support one) but it doesn't currently exist. Just because you have a friend in France who slipped one by the USCIS doesn't mean that anyone else will be able to.
If you can get $1,000,000 together, check out the EB-5 visa. Another common tactic is to get a business started in your own country and then use an L to open a branch in the United States.
[+] [-] mdda|14 years ago|reply
Initially, I talked to a lawyer about 'doing it right' - but concluded that I would have spent as much time describing it to the lawyer as writing the application myself.
One key point : You must be planning to create a company, not 'do a startup'. Have a business plan, with milestones. Quantify the investment, and project how it will pay back. Rent some office space, and have a contract. The embassy isn't in the business of understanding the Lean Startup experimentation process. They are interested in definite plans to grow a business (and employ Americans, too).
Of course, some of these points in the business plan may have a large 'error bar' on them. But you need to show to the Embassy that you're not crazy - and that they could not be labelled a 'soft touch' for granting the visa. There's no point trying to "slip one by the USCIS" : If that's the way you're thinking about it, that's the way it will appear.
To get the visa, you have to satisfy the regs. To satisfy the regs, you must have documentation that proves that each point, and subpoint, is satisfied. Each of these pieces of evidence needs at least 1 official piece of paper or a whole bunch of other justification.
Hope this makes sense.
[+] [-] sunir|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jfruh|14 years ago|reply
http://reason.com/assets/db/07cf533ddb1d06350cf1ddb5942ef5ad...
[+] [-] huherto|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] phatbyte|14 years ago|reply
As an european I sadly see everyone from this side of the world trying desperately be part of the new startup gold rush in the US. Fund startup, get VC money, sell it, ???, profit.
Not very long time ago, I was like you too. I wanted so much to move to SF and build my startup or be part of one. But now, I don't care. Why ?
1 - I can incorporate my company in Delaware right from my living room.
2 - I can have hire good professionals from around the world to work with me (looking at 37signals as a role model)
3 - And quite frankly, the position of the US regarding european citizens that want to live and work in the US is too restrictive and amazingly elitist. Not even Mordor is that hard travel to. I just wished other countries had the same mesures/restrictions as they do for US citizens that want to live and work abroad. Europe (although lots of americans couldn't even put it on the map) isn't made of third world countries.
4 - Also, lots of good startups are operating in this side of the world.
So, why are you giving the US all the credits for your work ? If they don't want you, screw it. It's not the end of the world, and your can pretty much do the same thing here as you would over there.
As a developer and founder of a new born company, I feel like we need to show the world that europe is a good place to fund a startup, we might not have the YC or other popular investors, but if more and more startups got created here, maybe they would start looking for us.
[+] [-] freshfey|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gioele|14 years ago|reply
I suppose that the things that matters are mostly monetary and boil down to "how much money do I need to pony up in the beginning stages?". On the other hand, if I had to move, I'd move only to a country where I know that I will not refused medical care for any reason and it is unlikely that I can end up in jail or being detained for wearing the wrong t-shirt. Oz?
PS: the website has a .com domain. Ah, irony of being refused a visa from the US while still being somehow under their legal reach.
[+] [-] muyuu|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] illumen|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jamesu|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] shareme|14 years ago|reply
How might accepting a US citizen co-founder impact such a visa process? Does ti improve the the chances for success and if so why?
[+] [-] c1sc0|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cletus|14 years ago|reply
Hmm, that's a tough one.
[+] [-] thanasisp|14 years ago|reply
This can take from 2 up to 10 years or who knows how many... Can't do that on a Tourist visa, it's a "half measure".
[+] [-] chrislloyd|14 years ago|reply