Avast Scandal: Why We Stopped Recommending Avast and AVG

[Aurornis]

> Avast and AVG no longer pose a threat to user privacy, meaning both products are 100% safe to use. Since closing down its data-aggregating subsidary, Jumpshot, Avast has undergone significant changes to ensure user privacy isn’t compromised. The company has earned certifications from data privacy advisors like TrustArc and works closely with other privacy experts, so you can rely on Avast and AVG to responsibly manage your data.

This looks to me like the kind of language that gets included in an article after lawyers start threatening lawsuits.

Something tells me the author didn’t really want to lead this article with a blurb about how the products are 100% safe to use.

[WhereIsTheTruth]

To me this sounds like they couldn't get juicy deals and a referral program like they do for all the other fishy AVs

I mean.. take a look at their home page: https://www.safetydetectives.com/

[KennyBlanken]

Yeah. "The company has earned certifications from data privacy advisors like TrustArc" feels like a reference who emails back "I can confirm Bob worked for us from August of 2010 to July of 2012." Trustarc is about box-checking compliance.

Also "works closely with other privacy experts"...like who?

[3np]

I think that's supposed to be a quote from reader mail, to which the OP is a response.

[downrightmike]

If you've used Avast or AVG in the past decade, they sold your click data for every thing you clicked on and every site you went to. I hadn't heard about this at all until today. Submitting for exposure.

[type0]

The trouble is that people don't care, I explained it to both AVG and Avast users, the response I got varied from disbelief to asking me where is my tinfoil-hat. Ignorance is bliss

[xen2xen1]

No shit moment right there. The second I saw they had their own toolbar I was 100% done, as it was totally, mind numbingly obvious they'd gone to the dark side. Anyone surprised by this is daft.

[HappyPanacea]

Wow I have used AVG for like 13 years and never even heard these allegations before although I'm plenty online. I saw the AVG email signature and disabled the web/email part of AVG. I should have realized that a company which does that will do other underhanded acts.

[goodbyesf]

I stopped using avast years ago when I first encountered the phrase: 'if it is free, then you are the product'.

Also, avast, avg, etc are just another source of vulnerabilities themselves.

Everyone really should be taught in school to ask: 'how do they profit off of me?'.

[codetrotter]

> they sold your click data for every thing you clicked on and every site you went to

It’s like Batman said. You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

[readyplayernull]

And Windows 11 took their place, waiting for the report in another 10 years...

[caminante]

To me, the browser/email signature bloatware was more offensive than selling my privacy.

[saagarjha]

> Avast and AVG no longer pose a threat to user privacy, meaning both products are 100% safe to use. Since closing down its data-aggregating subsidary, Jumpshot, Avast has undergone significant changes to ensure user privacy isn’t compromised. The company has earned certifications from data privacy advisors like TrustArc and works closely with other privacy experts, so you can rely on Avast and AVG to responsibly manage your data.

…is this meant to be sarcasm, or what?

[Eisenstein]

I wish the past twenty years hadn't been a futile effort of me and many others trying to convince people that they should care about privacy and their personal data even if they were 'nobody' or 'not doing anything wrong' or 'anonymously collected' or even if they thought 'there is nothing we can do about it', all the while coming across as paranoid or up to no good. Meanwhile I was right but fat good that does because the time to have done something impactful would have been 20 or so years ago and with a critical mass effort.

There has to be a term for humanity's tendency towards shrugging things off as unimportant until it becomes too late to do anything about it, and then getting really pissed off that nobody warned them enough.

[imiric]

It's difficult to argue against "free". The originally open spirit of the internet has been corrupted by companies who offer their services for "free", while in actuality it's done in exchange for the gold mine that is user data. Even if this is clarified, it's buried in the fine legalese of the T&S. And even if people read it, most will choose to make this exchange because they're already used to things being "free" online, because of the value of the service, and because it's never clarified how much their data is actually worth. The reality is that user data is exchanged in perpetuity on the data broker market, and the value extracted from it far exceeds the value of the service itself. Even paid services will harvest user data just because the profits from selling it exceed what they can realistically charge customers. All companies using this model should be paying users to use their service instead.

This is an insidious and downright evil business model, fueled primarily by advertising.

[bruce343434]

The term "Cassandra Syndrome" or "Cassandra Complex" is used to describe situations where individuals or groups make valid warnings or predictions about future disasters or problems, but are ignored or not taken seriously until it's too late.

[RcouF1uZ4gsC]

For at least the last decade, at least for consumers, any type of anti-virus such as Norton, Avast, AVG had more downside that upside. Avoiding running under an admin account and using Windows Defender was better than installing any third-party anti-virus solution.

[musicale]

If this is legal we need better laws.

If it is illegal then the laws need better enforcement.

[dancemethis]

> Avast and AVG no longer pose a threat to user privacy, meaning both products are 100% safe to use.

They are still proprietary. They definitely do pose a threat.

[JohnTHaller]

Avast also made money by tricking users into installing Google Chrome for years using dark patterns: https://imgur.com/gallery/WWZxj

[impulser_]

Do you even need these anymore? Why are people still using 3rd party anti-virus software?

[RadiozRadioz]

Because they're not part of the HN bubble and genuinely do need an additional program to stop them downloading random infected crap from MediaFire banner ads.

The amount of people who would open funnycat.jpg.exe is much larger than you think. No way are they reading Windows Defender popups with complicated words like "executable", they're gonna click okay and it's up to 3rd party virus protectors to stop that stuff with scary flashy warning popups.

[dgellow]

Look, Lambda people subscribe to VPNs because YouTubers convinced them it’s the only way to be safe online, even if that’s an absurd claim. Antivirus companies have a similar business model.

[rightbyte]

When Win 95 and 98 was a thing antivirus programs were broadly recommended to normal users. I guess the habit lingers?

[sremani]

Having an actual virus was less tax on the system than having Avast and AVG.

[wildekek]

The real money was in hedge funds using this data to beat the market. People got filthy rich this way.

[esafak]

Was this covered in the news?

[tedajax]

Antivirus software is universally a scam so not a surprise at all.

[chris_wot]

AVG and Norton merged last year. Funny how these guys out in a disclaimer up the top that AVG is perfectly fine now.

Great way to completely discredit your website.

[timbit42]

It's now called Gen Digital.

[lockhouse]

Just a reminder, nothing is really free.

I recommend if you find a product or service to be too cheap that you think through why that could possibly be.

[Eisenstein]

The problem is that selling data is so lucrative that even stuff you pay for will do it if they can get away with it.

We need real laws, with teeth, that put people in jail and/or liquidate their businesses and all shareholder value for selling data and neglecting to properly secure data. It should be stronger than HIPAA to the point where a CEO wouldn't even think of cutting a NetSec department budget if the company was collecting PII.

[WalterBright]

The D programming language is really free.

> why that could possibly be

Because it's fun.

[Zambyte]

Except Free Software ofc

[inglor]

I can explain how Microsoft makes money off its anti-virus if you'd like. It's only free for regular users but as soon as you need enterprise security measures (e.g. tracking exposure across your org, isolating parts of your network etc) it costs money.

So the built in anti-virus is in fact "free" because it makes selling the enterprise version easier.

[Der_Einzige]

There's clamAV which is open source: https://www.clamav.net/

[usr1106]

Debian?

[justinclift]

Blender?

[hknmtt]

i have not been using antivirus programs on any of my computers for at least 15 years. it's one of those things that sounds good but in reality is beyond useless.

[tupolef]

I've stopped using those tools probably around 2008, there where red flags everywhere: in the options, the ui behavior, and in many articles for many years.

I will not read this because I don't understand how a serious person or entity could recommend them in this era.

[denton-scratch]

So, it's been known for more than two years that Avast and AVG were stealing and selling personal information. What have safetydetectives been doing for all that time?

[joshstrange]

Too busy rearranging affiliate links on their website to notice or care? This site appears to be utter trash. Pretty much like 90% of the mattress review websites that suspiciously rank mattresses based on the kickback, I mean affiliate bonus, each mattress company gives them.

I rolled my eyes hard when they said something like “based on user feedback”, I’m sorry, is this not your entire point in existing? Monitoring the situation? Why are you having to rely on users telling you about this, repeatedly? Also what kind of user who actually cares about this kind of stuff is also reading/trusting/communicating with this site?

[thevania]

this is so funny, they recommend Norton everywhere

Norton and Avast merged last year:

https://blog.avast.com/avast-nortonlifelock-merge

[meindnoch]

Last time I used antivirus was on Windows XP when I was 12 years old.

[t0bia_s]

Same here. I scan PC with Malwarebytes Antimalware once a year and thats it. If you are not a torrent collector or brainless email attachments clicker, you'll ve fine.