Linux has nearly half of the desktop OS Linux market

[akyuu]

ChromeOS seems very interesting to me because it has managed to achieve a degree of security that no other desktop OS (Windows, macOS, and of course other desktop Linux, which are the least secure of the bunch) can even approach. It has been designed from the ground up to be secure: https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/docs/+/HEAD/sec...

- Verified boot backed by TPM.

- System services are heavily sandboxed: https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/docs/+/HEAD/san...

- New userspace is written in Rust: https://chromium.googlesource.com/chromiumos/docs/+/HEAD/dev...

- Web pages loaded on Chrome have no access to the device's filesystem, nor to user files.

- Android apps run inside a restricted container.

- Linux apps run inside a VM, which leverages KVM and a custom Rust VM monitor.

I think it'd be great if someone made a de-Googled fork of ChromeOS without all the Google telemetry and bloatware, because it'd be the perfect Linux distro for security-conscious individuals.

[asdigonationio]

A rock is also pretty hard to hack.

The hard problem of security is giving the user the power of a general-purpose machine without exposing them to the risks. "Don't run your favorite software lol" is not a valid approach to security. ChromeOS remains totally unsuitable for even casual usage, let alone anything serious.

Someone will, I'm sure, claim that the use of virtual machines is a solution. It isn't. The layers of virtualization in ChromeOS lead to atrocious performance, reliability, and functionality. I am not willing to tolerate half my programs living in a different universe from the other half, nor am I willing to tolerate uptime measured in hours.

[AussieWog93]

Is security an actual practical concern for desktop users savvy enough to know what a container is?

The only people I know who've had any sort of malware infection at all in the last 15 years are the ones who download and install random .exe files from spam emails and pirated TV streaming sites.

[hooverd]

Sadly ChromiumOS still requires Google. ChromeOS to me feels like an attempt to make laptops more like smartphones. The security is there to protect what's running on your machine from you than you from bad actors.

[fruitreunion1]

The system design is unique and interesting. It's a shame that the user experience doesn't align with how I want to use my computer, so I'll keep using desktop Linux and implement a bit of sandboxing myself. For the average consumer it could probably replace Windows for a lot of use cases and improve security due to its strict locked down and hard to exploit nature.

[jrm4]

How, pray tell, are you getting to "Desktop Linux, the least secure of the bunch?"

[hollerith]

>I think it'd be great if someone made a de-Googled fork of ChromeOS without all the Google telemetry and bloatware, because it'd be the perfect Linux distro for security-conscious individuals.

Since such a thing is currently unavailable, I'm inclined to try running ChromeOS, then having a headless Linux box next to it in the hopes that my customizing the headless Linux box will satisfy my need to customize my software environment.

For example, I'm inclined to try to keep most of my personal files on the headless Linux box.

[bitslayer]

The article mentions Chrome OS Flex, which is a version that doesn't require the Google security chip so it runs on a regular Intel PC. That is "de-Googled" I suppose, though I am not sure about the security implications that you mention.

[tjdetwiler]

FYI Android apps are also in a VM now.

https://chromeos.dev/en/posts/making-android-more-secure-wit...

[packetlost]

Yeah, ChromeOS is actually pretty good for nearly everyone. Perhaps most importantly, they're incredibly popular in schools right now and have been for a few years. Google has definitely been working towards a long play with shifting the younger generations mindshare towards ChromeOS and away from Windows for productivity. It's interesting because it does actually have some of the necessary holes punched through to allow for serious power/dev usage, but is also secure by default and as usable as the websites you go to.

[Y_Y]

> Ignoring all the commercial Unixes as they are effectively all dead now,

Ironic that this article would ignore Mac OS, a somewhat notable commercial Unix.

[helsinkiandrew]

Which has nearly 34% of desktops in the US! (world wide only 22%)

https://gs.statcounter.com/os-market-share/desktop/united-st...

[felipetrz]

That while including Linux in the list, which is not a Unix.

[CodeCompost]

> Linux has nearly half of the desktop OS Linux market.

I don't understand this headline, was it written by a bot?

[olalonde]

The author used a deliberately confusing title to make the point that ChromeOS should be considered as a Linux OS rather than a distinct category. The actual stat is "Linux (excluding ChromeOS) has nearly half of the desktop OS Linux market".

[top_sigrid]

I guess, reading the linked article would explain this, it's what the article is about.

> We feel that a more accurate reckoning would be that Linux has now reached 7.23 per cent of Statcounter's usage figures, with ChromeOS at just over half: 57.4 per cent of the total.

[jakobnissen]

Read the article.

[NoraCodes]

The point is that there is a semantic quibble about the word "Linux" in data gathering contexts.

[CivBase]

The article is about whether ChromeOS counts as a "Linux desktop OS".

[BossingAround]

The whole article seems confusing, and as if it's written by a bot. Not really what I'd call quality journalism.

[hn8305823]

The headline is just a bit of British humor

[ranting-moth]

It's a "we checked the Linux desktop share and you won't believe what we found out!" type of headline.

[_ea1k]

"Is that running Linux?" is a question that's becoming harder and harder to answer.

Have an Android phone? Technically yes. It runs the Linux kernel but not GNU (probably, unless you've installed a layer with gnu).

Have a Chrome OS device? It runs GNU/Linux and most have a user layer that can run Debian.

Have a Windows device? wsl exists and is quite nice. Lots of developers use it.

Is Windows Linux too now?

[nonameiguess]

Don't forget Alpine Linux, which almost everyone will call Linux because it has "Linux" in the name, but also doesn't use GNU, instead running the Linux kernel with musl and busybox as the C library and userspace system utils. It seems technically less "Linux" by this metric than Chrome OS and equal to Android.

I don't think this is principled really beyond the fact that Google chose to use different branding whereas FOSS distro vendors actually called what they distributed "Linux." Sort of how Hyenas are phylogenetically feliform but most people consider them dogs.

[therapee]

"Is that running Linux?" previously meant "Is that running Linux?"

Now, I think most people mean "Is that running something that markets itself as Linux, at it's core?"

Even that disambiguation isn't great, though.

[MattPalmer1086]

I think the article makes a good point. ChromeOS is very much a Linux desktop in most ways. Over 7% of desktops is a much nicer number too :)

[PurpleRamen]

> But that's not the case for ChromeOS. Underneath its unique GUI layer – which, unlike the one in macOS, is open source – it's a relatively standard Linux which can run standard Linux apps, out of the box, on both x86 and Arm.

How? Last time I looked at this, I needed to install a dedicated Linux-Environment, which came with its own hiccups. That's not really what I would call out-of-the-box. The Android-Integration made a better impression.

[CrampusDestrus]

ChromeOS is an immutable Gentoo installation. The offered additional Linux environment is, understandably, based on Debian in order to allow for the most compatibility with .deb packages. Of course you can't natively install .deb packages on Gentoo and especially so if you don't have the rights to install spurious packages on the system, so Google "has to" offer the Linux experience in a roundabout way.

Of course, they could base ChromeOS on Debian directly and be done with it, but then they'd lose the incredible ease of custom tailoring to the hardware that Gentoo offers.

[asdigonationio]

It can't. There is a compatibility layer. It is limited and works shockingly badly.

[quicklime]

The only reason I care about Linux market share is because that’s the metric that hardware manufacturers and software vendors use to decide whether to provide Linux support.

This is why android and chrome os don’t count. Those operating systems are different enough from my fedora workstation installation that proprietary drivers and software won’t be useful to me.

On the other hand someone using another distro like Debian or Arch does help.

[zokier]

But Android and ChromeOS do pull in lots of open source driver code too; the situation is not so black and white.

[paleface]

Do the ARM, POWER/PowerPC, MIPS, or RISC-V architectures, also count, to this mystical, and seemingly gate kept definition, of the “Linux Desktop”?

Because when you write about about hardware manufacturers, and software vendors, “supporting” Linux - it is seemingly apparent, that “Linux”, consists of only computers of the “Intel” variety - from my experience.

[fultonb]

I agree with the author here, and quite frankly as much as I like GNU/Linux it is a long way from being a usable operating system for my parents and other non-technically inclined people (to the point that I'm writing this on a Mac because I'm in uni and I don't have time to deal with getting the some of the software I have to use to work) I personally hate Chrome OS, but it is a Linux desktop. Now do we want a FOSS GNU/Linux desktop? Yes, and this isn't it. But it is a Linux desktop and should be credited as such.

[mistrial9]

personally setup an Ubuntu LTS for the worst offender class -- daily email, zoom calls, attachments with important documents.. doesnt know what a folder is, doesnt know what browser they have, doesnt quit get the difference between RAM and disk space.

three years+ daily solid operation, no tech support problems except very rare microphone problems.

If you do not change the peripherals, and the client uses a browser mostly, then "long way away" is just false in 2020s.

[jonahrd]

I develop cross-platform desktop software. I have one backend/set of build flags for Linux binaries, and another very distinct one for ChromeOS. For me, it makes sense to differentiate the two.

[hollerith]

On ChromeOS, does the software you develop run in Crostini?

[otterpro]

If it has Linux kernel, then it is Linux. And if it is Linux and has a GUI on top of it, I consider it a Linux desktop. I definitely think that ChromeOS is Linux desktop and even the Android should be considered a Linux desktop.

[pie_flavor]

The experience of using Linux is extremely similar across Ubuntu, CentOS, and Arch. The level of required knowledge and skill per distro varies, but the overall idea remains the same. That experience, and the experience of using ChromeOS, and Android, and MacOS, and Windows, and a Nintendo Switch, are all mutually distinct to about the same degree. The people saying 'Linux market share' are not talking about the kernel. They are talking about the degree to which the Linux Experience is a palatable one that the average consumer chooses to engage in. There is nothing Desktop Linux about ChromeOS. It uses the Linux kernel because writing their own would have been annoying. You can say that there is a definition of 'Linux computer' that includes ChromeOS, but it's not a definition that's useful for anything except feeling smug for inscrutable reasons.

NB: I dislike Linux.

[jacknews]

Sure, linux (the kernel, the ABI, etc) is at the heart of many things, but I think to be 'a linux' you have to be free, open, malleable, etc, and chromeOS just isn't, really. And the fact that it's more successful than 'real' linuxen is kind of damning of the whole relationship commercial entities have to FOSS.

[badrabbit]

It's different because the userspace experience is differnt and incompatible. It's an operating system on its own kind of like how MacOS is Unix based but an OS of its own.

This is a "ship of thessius" problem. At what point does the ship become a new ship? When it is no longer recognizable as the old ship.

[Zambyte]

The word they're looking for is "GNU".

[pantalaimon]

ChromeOS, unlike Android, uses glibc and other GNU userland.

[coldtea]

Why, if I run with musl and MIT/Apache userland, eg. rust replacements for coreutils, it's not Linux?

[kryptiskt]

How long will they insist that we genuflect to them for the few pieces of legacy software that they bring to a typical Linux system?

[awestroke]

No