> (on Paris Syndrome uniquely afflicting Japanese tourists) Or it could be the jarring confrontation of the a priori ideal of Paris as exotic and friendly with the rather more abrasive nature of the city’s inhabitants.
Having visited Tokyo (which I assume is the most Paris-like Japan gets?) and Paris (just got back from most recent trip), this rings true.
Average "mild annoyance" from a Parisian would equal "severe disrespect" from a Tokyo resident.
Plus add in the French propensity not to apologize for normal, everyday oops-type things, and I imagine it'd be very jarring.
That said, on my most recent trip to Paris, I actually found Parisians a lot nicer than the last time I was there (~1995ish?).
There's a lot of Gallic-isms, but even as an American with extremely bad and limited French, most people were very nice.
PS: Not sure why tacos are the new craze in Paris, but y'all should really import some Tejanos to get the full experience. Feta never belongs on a taco that's not shrimp.
It's hard to pick up on as an American, but "French Tacos" actually don't have any genealogy in common with Tex-Mex tacos. They're essentially north African shwarma (lamb kebab, fries, cheese sauce, lettuce shoved in a wrap) re-marketed in a way that doesn't invoke knee-jerk racism from the French mainstream. Calling them "tacos" lets them get away with being exotic, and since the average Français doesn't really have any preconceived notions about Mexico or Mexican food either way it doesn't conjure up any negative associations. Calling them "Le French Tacos" is even more re-assuring -- they're tacos, but 'frenchified', so they must be OK.
But that same light-skinned frenchman would turn up his gallic nose an authentic arabic shwarma, even stumbling from from le bar at 2am. That the only difference between a good shwarma and a good French taco is /maybe/ the choice of cheese makes no difference...
(Source: live in Toulouse, have snarky Lebanese friends)
> but even as an American with extremely bad and limited French, most people were very nice
The trick to Paris, I’ve found, is to start with broken French and then suddenly everyone speaks fluent English. But if you start with English you’re screwed.
Even saying “Bonjour” with a decent accent (you can learn it like a song almost) will make them significantly nicer to you.
But yeah don’t expect a big city person to actually verbalize anything if they bump into you in a crowded place. That’s just expected and normal. Not worth aknowledging.
The culture shock of the Paris experience has less to do with vague aspersions against Parisian personality, and more to do with the sudden confrontation of the sight of thousands of unhoused immigrants under a bridge, or dozens of pickpockets at every tourist attraction. You know, the stuff they don't include in the tourist brochures and the movies about Paris.
Personally I found Paris extremely underwhelming - it felt just like New York but slightly more French. I had a much better experience visiting small towns in the south of France. But to be fair to France, I don't think this is an issue unique to their country - it's an issue with tourism to cities. As a tourist I've come to realize that most cities are largely the same across every meaningful dimension. The best travel experiences come from smaller towns and generally anywhere "off the beaten path." As they would say in Thailand, every city is "same same but different."
2 days late: but what a lot of the responses did not mention regarding specifically Japanese tourists:
Most people in Japan get very little Paid time off compared to the rest of the world. And the work culture is so toxic that people get shamed for actually taking their time off. Now, taking that into account, can you imagine that a Japanese person, actually fighting against that, and doing that big trip to a foreign city on the other side of the world, at great expense. They chose Paris for it's reputation. Now imagine their disappointment when Paris is significantly worse than Tokyo.[0] After all the money, time, and precious time off spent to get there, I too would have a mental breakdown under those conditions.
[0] Can confirm. I have been to both. Paris is nice as long as you don't look at the floor. (It is the only major city I've been to that had human shit on the side-walk in the middle of a major tourist area) Tokyo is better in all regards. It's cheaper, cleaner, has more things to do, is better run, etc.
> That said, on my most recent trip to Paris, I actually found Parisians a lot nicer than the last time I was there (~1995ish?).
My wife and I had the exact same experience. We had been to Paris in the late 90s and when we were there a couple of years ago, we found people to be much nicer than they had been previously. Our theory is that it is / was a generational thing.
i'm from california. the funniest thing about paris was people repeatedly getting way too fucking close to me on the street. my hackles were constantly going up because some french person minding their own business was breaching my bubble. i wonder how this compares to personal space norms in japan.
I'm no expert, but wasn't Stockholm Syndrome debunked?
My understanding is that the response to the hostage taking was so incompetent that the hostages trusted the kidnappers more than the police. One of them was expected to "die at her post" by a bank executive. She refused to testify against them for these reasons rather than any sympathy to their cause.
"The psychiatrist who invented it, Nils Bejerot, never spoke to the woman he based it on, never bothered to ask her why she trusted her captors more than the authorities. More to the point, during the Swedish bank heist that inspired the syndrome, Bejerot was the psychiatrist leading the police response. He was the authority that Kristin Enmark – the first woman diagnosed with Stockholm syndrome – distrusted."
"On the radio, Enmark criticized the police, and singled out Bejerot. In response, and without once speaking to her, Bejerot dismissed her comments as the product of a syndrome he made up: ‘Norrmalmstorg syndrome’ (later renamed Stockholm syndrome). The fear Enmark felt towards the police was irrational, Bejerot explained, caused by the emotional or sexual attachment she had with her captors. Bejerot’s snap diagnosis suited the Swedish media; they were suspicious of Enmark, who ‘did not appear as traumatized as she ought to be.’ "
At best,this syndrome was described based on one situation, not scientific research.
Watch ”Clark” on Netflix for a fun take on events. But basically imagine a charming sociopath bankrobber back in innocent 70’s in Sweden.
With the twist that the bank robbing that gave name to the phrase was made by someone psychotic and the friendly bank robber got called in by the prime minister to negotiate.
I would add "Palo Alto Syndrome" -- It's where you show up on Sand Hill Rd. with a business plan only to discover VC's don't want to look at "reasonable" plans to build a 20M company in 3 years for a 500k investment, but want to invest in "outlandish" plans to build a 200B company in 6 months with a 100M investment.
Something's off about this list. I can't find Brooklyn Syndrome on Wikipedia and think the description is confusing.
The main source I found on Brooklyn Syndrome is from the Names journal [0], which has a nearly identical description.
I wonder if this article is a direct copy of that journal article with lazy paraphrasing from the Atlas Obscura writers to avoid plagiarism. If so, this makes me wonder how much of Atlas Obscura was created this way.
They also missed the Glasgow effect - residents have a significantly lower life expectancy that the rest of the UK and, from memory so could be wrong, it affects people who's first line ancestry is from Glasgow but who themselves have never lived there.
> residents have a significantly lower life expectancy that the rest of the UK
Diet - Seems like Glaswegians have forgotten Fee-fi-fo-fum In certain parts of the country, the NHS will prescribe some things to elderly people which increases life span, that would normally be found in high levels elsewhere in the country. I doubt Evian or San Pelligrino is high on the shopping list up there either.
> London Syndrome is when hostages become argumentative toward their captors—often with deadly results.
I think I must be suffering from London syndrome, in much the same way the population of voters feel at general election time, or a congregation feels towards a vicar.
I think they have forgotten a few. It's already Friday afternoon here, so I hope you'll be able to excuse my ChatGPT indulgence:
Silicon Valley Disruption Delusion - This peculiar state of mind is characterized by an individual's inclination to perceive every life aspect as a sector ripe for modernization. Symptoms include an increased use of entrepreneurial vernacular, spontaneous pitching to unsuspecting venture capitalists, and a tendency to self-identify as a "founder." In extreme cases, one might even start praising the virtues of blockchain for everyday activities.
Amsterdam Cycle Confusion - In this unusual psychological state, the individual develops a belief that they should travel exclusively by bicycle. This can lead to fervent cycling even in non-bike-friendly areas and a distinct reluctance to use pedestrian pathways or motorized transport.
Munich Brewmaster Belief - Individuals affected by this syndrome are consumed by the idea that they are master brewers. The condition manifests in an incessant discussion about hops and yeast, an urge to experiment with brewing in unconventional locations, and the staging of impromptu beer tasting competitions.
Palo Alto Unicorn Unreality - Those affected by this syndrome exhibit an uncanny tendency to transform every idea into a potential billion-dollar startup or 'unicorn.' They might display irregular sleep patterns, subsist mainly on energy drinks and quick meals, and their conversations are often peppered with phrases like "the next big thing," and "exit strategy."
Seattle Server Overload Syndrome - This cognitive anomaly leads a person to believe they're akin to a server, required to handle multiple requests concurrently. They may develop an unhealthy penchant for multitasking and often describe their mental state using terms such as "processing," "bandwidth," and "buffering."
> Detroit Syndrome is a form of age discrimination in which workers of a certain age are replaced by those who are younger, faster, and stronger, not to mention endowed with new skills better suited for the modern workplace.
Does a certain 20yo junior writer for a Web site resent the senior writers?
I think this is more a statement about the Detroit auto scene being objectively behind other areas. Yeah age discrimination plays a part but in this case it's actually justified as opposed to just being cheaper.
Always heard about Florence syndrome as Stendhal's, but never did click before.
My bet is that in the future somebody will eventually find a direct relationship between the symptoms and the chemicals used to clean the museums or preserve antique valuable pieces from the attack of insects and molds.
As long as the ventilation systems (and insurance?) improve should be more and more rare.
I can confirm, being from Florence, that noone calls it that, it is Stendhal's Syndrome alright.
The name was given with reference to a passage in Stendhal's writing about a visit to Santa Croce in 1817, by the psychiatrist that "invented" it and wrote a book about it (Dr. Graziella Magherini).
Personally I always found it improper, as the original experience as described by Stendhal was a temporary and very "light" mental confusion, that could have well been due to heat or low pressure or a similar physical reason coincidentally happening at the same time he was in awe for the art before his eyes, while the stories in the book are about patients that had severe symptoms and that took days, weeks or even months to recover.
There is an interview to the doctor, mentioned on the Wikipedia page, archived here:
The "chemicals" theory is improbable because at the time the book was published it considered around 100 cases she attributed to the syndrome over a 10 years period, so 10 cases per year to be compared with the millions of tourists per year in Florence (even in the '70's), and it is not like in Florence museums different substances are used than in the rest of Italy.
Whether this syndrome actually exists or not, is up to debate, but surely the doctor found a very catchy name for it.
Vancouver Canada has a reputation as no-fun city and also a place where it's tough to make friends. Which is weird when you consider that it's a gem of a city with abundant natural and man-made attractions.
Can I suggest that feeling bored and lonely despite idyllic surroundings defines "Vancouver Syndrome" ?
It should involve an otherwise emotional, feeling, social and empathic creature dissociating into a cold, atomized, post-social entity with the uncanny ability to tune out the world and everything in it as it buzzes towards its goal.
Guess it doesn’t make the cut because it’s not called “Phoenix Fever”, but Valley Fever is a local affliction, stemmed from dust and spores being kicked into the air. It’s quite nasty, not that anyone here needed less of a reason to visit Phoenix, Arizona.
ethbr0|2 years ago
Having visited Tokyo (which I assume is the most Paris-like Japan gets?) and Paris (just got back from most recent trip), this rings true.
Average "mild annoyance" from a Parisian would equal "severe disrespect" from a Tokyo resident.
Plus add in the French propensity not to apologize for normal, everyday oops-type things, and I imagine it'd be very jarring.
That said, on my most recent trip to Paris, I actually found Parisians a lot nicer than the last time I was there (~1995ish?).
There's a lot of Gallic-isms, but even as an American with extremely bad and limited French, most people were very nice.
PS: Not sure why tacos are the new craze in Paris, but y'all should really import some Tejanos to get the full experience. Feta never belongs on a taco that's not shrimp.
Doches|2 years ago
But that same light-skinned frenchman would turn up his gallic nose an authentic arabic shwarma, even stumbling from from le bar at 2am. That the only difference between a good shwarma and a good French taco is /maybe/ the choice of cheese makes no difference...
(Source: live in Toulouse, have snarky Lebanese friends)
Swizec|2 years ago
The trick to Paris, I’ve found, is to start with broken French and then suddenly everyone speaks fluent English. But if you start with English you’re screwed.
Even saying “Bonjour” with a decent accent (you can learn it like a song almost) will make them significantly nicer to you.
But yeah don’t expect a big city person to actually verbalize anything if they bump into you in a crowded place. That’s just expected and normal. Not worth aknowledging.
TechBro8615|2 years ago
Personally I found Paris extremely underwhelming - it felt just like New York but slightly more French. I had a much better experience visiting small towns in the south of France. But to be fair to France, I don't think this is an issue unique to their country - it's an issue with tourism to cities. As a tourist I've come to realize that most cities are largely the same across every meaningful dimension. The best travel experiences come from smaller towns and generally anywhere "off the beaten path." As they would say in Thailand, every city is "same same but different."
executesorder66|2 years ago
Most people in Japan get very little Paid time off compared to the rest of the world. And the work culture is so toxic that people get shamed for actually taking their time off. Now, taking that into account, can you imagine that a Japanese person, actually fighting against that, and doing that big trip to a foreign city on the other side of the world, at great expense. They chose Paris for it's reputation. Now imagine their disappointment when Paris is significantly worse than Tokyo.[0] After all the money, time, and precious time off spent to get there, I too would have a mental breakdown under those conditions.
[0] Can confirm. I have been to both. Paris is nice as long as you don't look at the floor. (It is the only major city I've been to that had human shit on the side-walk in the middle of a major tourist area) Tokyo is better in all regards. It's cheaper, cleaner, has more things to do, is better run, etc.
dopidopHN|2 years ago
piuantiderp|2 years ago
twmiller|2 years ago
My wife and I had the exact same experience. We had been to Paris in the late 90s and when we were there a couple of years ago, we found people to be much nicer than they had been previously. Our theory is that it is / was a generational thing.
slater-|2 years ago
inconceivable|2 years ago
P_I_Staker|2 years ago
I'm not saying that "all of Europe" is like that, but definitely the major cities of many Western European countries.
That said, we have SV / Seattle, so I guess we have our own hipster sociopaths in the USA.
meigwilym|2 years ago
My understanding is that the response to the hostage taking was so incompetent that the hostages trusted the kidnappers more than the police. One of them was expected to "die at her post" by a bank executive. She refused to testify against them for these reasons rather than any sympathy to their cause.
praptak|2 years ago
"The psychiatrist who invented it, Nils Bejerot, never spoke to the woman he based it on, never bothered to ask her why she trusted her captors more than the authorities. More to the point, during the Swedish bank heist that inspired the syndrome, Bejerot was the psychiatrist leading the police response. He was the authority that Kristin Enmark – the first woman diagnosed with Stockholm syndrome – distrusted."
"On the radio, Enmark criticized the police, and singled out Bejerot. In response, and without once speaking to her, Bejerot dismissed her comments as the product of a syndrome he made up: ‘Norrmalmstorg syndrome’ (later renamed Stockholm syndrome). The fear Enmark felt towards the police was irrational, Bejerot explained, caused by the emotional or sexual attachment she had with her captors. Bejerot’s snap diagnosis suited the Swedish media; they were suspicious of Enmark, who ‘did not appear as traumatized as she ought to be.’ "
At best,this syndrome was described based on one situation, not scientific research.
zgluck|2 years ago
I wasn't a bank executive, it was the the social democratic prime minister Olof Palme.
During a phone call he asked one of the hostages: "wouldn′t it be nice to die at your post?"
https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/591659
(https://blogs.loc.gov/law/2021/03/the-murder-of-swedish-prim...)
aredox|2 years ago
https://www.stadafa.com/2020/12/stockholm-syndrome-discredit...
cstejerean|2 years ago
Was that also because of distrusting the police?
marginalia_nu|2 years ago
johanneskanybal|2 years ago
With the twist that the bank robbing that gave name to the phrase was made by someone psychotic and the friendly bank robber got called in by the prime minister to negotiate.
retrocryptid|2 years ago
iamdamian|2 years ago
The main source I found on Brooklyn Syndrome is from the Names journal [0], which has a nearly identical description.
I wonder if this article is a direct copy of that journal article with lazy paraphrasing from the Atlas Obscura writers to avoid plagiarism. If so, this makes me wonder how much of Atlas Obscura was created this way.
[0]: (PDF) https://ans-names.pitt.edu/ans/article/download/2019/2018/40...
pahbloo|2 years ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fictitious_entry
dghughes|2 years ago
Maybe nobody added it.
dimal|2 years ago
https://www.sciencenews.org/archive/brooklyn-syndrome
ctrlp|2 years ago
simonbarker87|2 years ago
darkclouds|2 years ago
Diet - Seems like Glaswegians have forgotten Fee-fi-fo-fum In certain parts of the country, the NHS will prescribe some things to elderly people which increases life span, that would normally be found in high levels elsewhere in the country. I doubt Evian or San Pelligrino is high on the shopping list up there either.
> London Syndrome is when hostages become argumentative toward their captors—often with deadly results.
I think I must be suffering from London syndrome, in much the same way the population of voters feel at general election time, or a congregation feels towards a vicar.
arethuza|2 years ago
https://simd.scot/
e.g. Select the most deprived 5% from the key - they are mostly in Glasgow :-(
nickybuzz|2 years ago
TheRealSteel|2 years ago
w-m|2 years ago
Silicon Valley Disruption Delusion - This peculiar state of mind is characterized by an individual's inclination to perceive every life aspect as a sector ripe for modernization. Symptoms include an increased use of entrepreneurial vernacular, spontaneous pitching to unsuspecting venture capitalists, and a tendency to self-identify as a "founder." In extreme cases, one might even start praising the virtues of blockchain for everyday activities.
Amsterdam Cycle Confusion - In this unusual psychological state, the individual develops a belief that they should travel exclusively by bicycle. This can lead to fervent cycling even in non-bike-friendly areas and a distinct reluctance to use pedestrian pathways or motorized transport.
Munich Brewmaster Belief - Individuals affected by this syndrome are consumed by the idea that they are master brewers. The condition manifests in an incessant discussion about hops and yeast, an urge to experiment with brewing in unconventional locations, and the staging of impromptu beer tasting competitions.
Palo Alto Unicorn Unreality - Those affected by this syndrome exhibit an uncanny tendency to transform every idea into a potential billion-dollar startup or 'unicorn.' They might display irregular sleep patterns, subsist mainly on energy drinks and quick meals, and their conversations are often peppered with phrases like "the next big thing," and "exit strategy."
Seattle Server Overload Syndrome - This cognitive anomaly leads a person to believe they're akin to a server, required to handle multiple requests concurrently. They may develop an unhealthy penchant for multitasking and often describe their mental state using terms such as "processing," "bandwidth," and "buffering."
analog31|2 years ago
tter3|2 years ago
mnw21cam|2 years ago
tutuca|2 years ago
swarnie|2 years ago
neilv|2 years ago
Does a certain 20yo junior writer for a Web site resent the senior writers?
pc86|2 years ago
bratgpttamer|2 years ago
jjkaczor|2 years ago
As in, "oh - that's not how they do it in Australia, did you know I lived in (or visited) Australia for 'x' amount of time?"
unstatusthequo|2 years ago
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Freeze
floren|2 years ago
dghughes|2 years ago
pvaldes|2 years ago
My bet is that in the future somebody will eventually find a direct relationship between the symptoms and the chemicals used to clean the museums or preserve antique valuable pieces from the attack of insects and molds.
As long as the ventilation systems (and insurance?) improve should be more and more rare.
jaclaz|2 years ago
The name was given with reference to a passage in Stendhal's writing about a visit to Santa Croce in 1817, by the psychiatrist that "invented" it and wrote a book about it (Dr. Graziella Magherini).
Personally I always found it improper, as the original experience as described by Stendhal was a temporary and very "light" mental confusion, that could have well been due to heat or low pressure or a similar physical reason coincidentally happening at the same time he was in awe for the art before his eyes, while the stories in the book are about patients that had severe symptoms and that took days, weeks or even months to recover.
There is an interview to the doctor, mentioned on the Wikipedia page, archived here:
https://web.archive.org/web/20110714081259/http://www.metrop...
that is worth reading.
The "chemicals" theory is improbable because at the time the book was published it considered around 100 cases she attributed to the syndrome over a 10 years period, so 10 cases per year to be compared with the millions of tourists per year in Florence (even in the '70's), and it is not like in Florence museums different substances are used than in the rest of Italy.
Whether this syndrome actually exists or not, is up to debate, but surely the doctor found a very catchy name for it.
glonq|2 years ago
Can I suggest that feeling bored and lonely despite idyllic surroundings defines "Vancouver Syndrome" ?
/s but kinda not
romesc|2 years ago
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Danbury_shakes&re...
bowsamic|2 years ago
mikrl|2 years ago
It should involve an otherwise emotional, feeling, social and empathic creature dissociating into a cold, atomized, post-social entity with the uncanny ability to tune out the world and everything in it as it buzzes towards its goal.
dclowd9901|2 years ago
NoZebra120vClip|2 years ago
b33j0r|2 years ago
Animats|2 years ago
user6723|2 years ago
aaron695|2 years ago
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