When I was in my early 20s I would probably say I had a dependence on cannabis. Key for me in transitioning away from that was lower THC % products. It's was as if I wanted to enjoy a single beer after work but the only thing available was everclear. Most vape pens are billed as 85%+ THC. Now, I still enjoy cannabis, but I have a single puff of a vape pen that is around 3% THC (the rest is usually CBD) before bed. Or I take an edible that is 1.5mg THC (very low, edibles are usually sold at 5-10mg doses). It's a much different relationship. I don't feel like my mind is racing out of control, I don't build up a massive tolerance. I sleep fine without it. It's startling to think that a single puff of a 90% pen is literally 30x as much THC.
However, these products are disappointingly few and far between. When I walk into a CA dispensary, I actually have to hunt around for them, if they're even available. When I ask, staff members wonder if I'm buying it for my grandmother! It would be great to see the industry refocus on products that are designed to be consumed in moderation.
I was consuming 5-6 grams a day for over a year until 3 months ago after weed got super easy to find in my state. It allowed me to escape from my responsibilities, first thing I thought in the morning and I seriously I thought I could not quit. I then watched a video of myself interacting with my 7 year old with my super bloody eyes and looked like a loser. That and my own mom's "I am scared that you would not be able to quit" were two things that triggered me to stop right there. Weed made me resentful towards people and life, made me criticize everything around me. I am not going to waste my 40s like that.
One related thing I'd like to point out that I think the article gets wrong is that the 2018 Farm Bill, which aimed to legalize just hemp, for all intents and purposes made weed legal nationwide due to some clever workarounds by producers. I live in a state that very, very much still calls all use of marijuana illegal except for some very specific and tightly controlled medical uses (i.e. it's not like "hey doc, can you just write me a 'script" like other states), yet I can still walk into a very nice, clean, well-maintained store in a plain strip mall and:
1. Buy D9 gummies and other edibles that contain up to 50mg D9 THC. Basically, since the law defines hemp as containing < .3% D9 THC, producers just extract all the D9 THC from hemp and inject it into edibles such that the total weight of the edible means there is still less than .3% D9 THC in the edible. These get me just as baked as "normal" weed gummies, they're just a bit bigger.
2. More surprising to me is the recent addition of "THCA Hemp Flower". To me these are just normal buds - I can grind them up and vape them and they get me just as high as "normal" weed. Basically these flowers contain low amounts of THC, but high amounts of THCA. But when you heat it, THCA turns into THC by decarboxylation. The thing that I don't understand is that I thought "normal" marijuana always needed to be heated anyway, e.g. why they say you can't just eat a weed bud but if you're making an edible you need to heat the oils first.
The gummies/edible workaround I can understand, but the THCA flower "workaround" seems like it's skirting really close to the edge of the law. Not that I'm complaining or anything, but it's weird to me how people don't know that weed is legal nationwide in the US.
Ever since it became legal I have friends who spend majority of their day high. Of course, when confronted, they say it's not addictive and they dont have a problem. As we know this is the first sign of a very serious addiction.
It's a comparison problem. It won't kill you like alcohol withdrawals will or make you agitated like nicotine will. So then it must be okay right? These same potheads will quote studies and news articles talking about the benefits or just how risk free it is.
Its very similar to the way a functional alcoholic will justify their drinking. They even use avoidance language. 20 years ago we called it weed, now we call it "cannabis". Oh, you're not addicted to weed you're just using cannabis every hour of every day. I think legalization didn't help, nor hurt, but the re-branding of weed as "cannabis" while biologically correct gave these type of people a get out of jail free card. If you don't believe me, say to yourself "I smoke weed 8 times a day" versus "I use cannabis 8 times a day". One of them makes you sound like a degenerate, one of them makes you sound like you take a medication. That difference is very important in justifying addiction in the mind of an addict.
> Of course, when confronted, they say it's not addictive and they dont have a problem. As we know this is the first sign of a very serious addiction.
this has to be more nuanced, because according to this logic 100% of all humans have this addiction. If you confront a non-addict, they too will tell you that they don't have a problem.
> As we know this is the first sign of a very serious addiction.
Isn't denying an addiction when told one has an addiction also the first sign of not having an addiction? "Methinks the lady doth protest too much" works well and good for a play, but doesn't really meet the traditional standards for evidence.
> Of course, when confronted, they say it's not addictive and they dont have a problem. As we know this is the first sign of a very serious addiction.
The first sign of an addiction (at least, the first which is visible to an outside observer) is that it interferes with your life and you won't stop.
Until about a week ago, I was a heavy daily cannabis user for a very long time (more than ten years). If you had asked me if I had an addiction, I would have said no.
Recently I came to believe I had Cannaboid Hyperemesis Syndrome, a disease for which the only cure is to quit cannabis. So I quit - immediately. I have a gigantic pile of weed in the house (I had just bought more when I started having symptoms), and I pass by it everyday. I just shake my head and go, "darn, wish I could smoke that," and go about my day.
That's not a story you're going to hear from an addict.
That's not to minimize the experience of people who do experience a cannabis addiction. I have known people I suspect have a problem. But no, cannabis and alcohol continue not to be comparable as far as their harm and addictive potential.
(And I have absolutely no regrets about my consumption, it was an incredible medication for my anxiety.)
Most of us who drink coffee or tea are in the same boat. We do it every day, sometimes multiple times a day. There is withdrawal. There is tolerance. The half-life is so long that even if we stop in the morning, we are spending the majority of the day high.
Reading just this comment, I'm inclined to think your friend is likely correct. You very clearly have a dangerous bias against THC and it's clear in your rhetoric, for example:
> while biologically correct gave these type of people a get out of jail free card.
Yikes.
I think part of the problem is ever since legalization weed became more mainstream (potentially dangerous) but weed-conservatism (i.e. exaggerating real risks of THC) also became much more common to encounter (also potentially dangerous). The reality is somewhere in between. I do not use THC, but as someone who used it previously and it tremendously helped me, my current mental model and set of anecdotes say you're likely wrong and exaggerating the real risk your friend is under.
"Potheads", "get-out-of-jail-free", "degenerate", etc.
"Ever since it became legal I have friends who spend majority of their day high. Of course, when confronted"
Maybe you should quit interrogating your friends to prop up your own puritanical moralities. All I see when I read your post is how much you hate people who use weed.
> Of course, when confronted, they say it's not addictive and they dont have a problem. As we know this is the first sign of a very serious addiction.
No, saying you don’t have an addiction may be a common thing addicts (and non-addicts!) do, but its not even close to the first sign of addiction. Or even a recognized symptom. Or even a recognized danger sign that would call for more intense screening. Its not a useful indicator of addiction at all.
> 20 years ago we called it weed, now we call it "cannabis".
“Weed”/“pot"/“ganja”/etc. are sonewhat vague slang. “Marijuana” and “hemp” are legal categories. “Cannabis” is a correct, precise term that encompasses both hemp and marijuana.
> Ever since it became legal I have friends who spend majority of their day high. Of course, when confronted, they say it's not addictive and they dont have a problem. As we know this is the first sign of a very serious addiction.
Before it became legal, I'm willing to bet those friends spent a majority of their day doing something equally unproductive. Be it playing video games, or watching tv, whatever $couch_potato_activity. And they're probably just doing the same stupid thing while high, because it's even more fun that way.
It's easy to villify a drug for what would happen either way, you're not proving a causal relationship. Pot and being a lazy slob dovetail quite nicely, just like pizza and beer. Nobody blames pizza and beer for the fat stained-shirt slob who never gets off their ass.
> Of course, when confronted, they say it's not addictive and they dont have a problem. As we know this is the first sign of a very serious addiction.
We don't know anything of the sort.
It's common for addicts to think they aren't addicted. But it's also common for non-addicts to think they aren't addicted, because, you know, they aren't.
It's just difficult in many cases to tell whether someone is addicted, and your confidence that you know isn't warranted, nor does it make you particularly helpful to addicts.
I agree with most of what you're saying here about this being a comparison problem.
The one area of major disagreement is regarding the "cannabis" designation. For me, this term is associated with the opposite connotation. When I started taking its effects more seriously, I started using the cannabis word because I feel it lends more respect to the plant. This wasn't originally my idea, and so I'm not alone in this.
This respect was part of my own mindset shift on usage away from habitual use. A way to remind myself to take it seriously, and to partake intentionally if/when I do.
Most people I know are pretty aware of their "problem" but have no intention of changing it. Calling it one thing over another might be a form of self deception for a few, but self deception will always find some answer.
> It won't kill you like alcohol withdrawals will or make you agitated like nicotine will. So then it must be okay right? These same potheads will quote studies and news articles talking about the benefits or just how risk free it is.
I do think we have major issues with how we paint these different groups. When someone is an alcoholic, they gain sympathy and support from society proportional to their maladaptive behaviors and/or willingness to address the issue.
"Potheads" is almost always derogatory, and I don't think people who struggle with this are seen in the same light as people who struggle with other drugs of abuse, and it's not surprising considering the pretty clear misconceptions the public has about cannabis as a whole.
And I think this is important to note, because one of the #1 emotional factors that leads to continued maladaptive substance use is shame. Society has progressed quite a bit towards supporting and celebrating people who struggle with drugs/alcohol. I don't think society has done the same with cannabis. Attitudes are closer to "they're just lazy and it's not even addictive so what's their problem?".
Maybe not an addiction in the sense that they get shakes and sweats when they quit cold turkey (or risk death), but definitely a dependence that I see in a lot of people; a dependence on weed just to be able to relax.
But the side effect of being high all the time is indifference. Things can wait.
I don't think the wording makes much of a difference, that's like saying "I drink" vs "I imbibe alcohol". Or as South Park said it, "I'm not having a glass of wine, I'm having six, it's called a tasting and it's classy".
But it does become dangerous when people think of it as medicinal, as a kind of self-medication. Some people need it, for sure, but for a lot of people it's self-medicating without dealing with the root issues.
But then there's plenty of examples of self-medicating, ranging from sugar, energy drinks, video games, alcohol, sex, work, etc.
None of this is true for me or a few other people I know.
I had a rough childhood. I didn’t get help. I tried, but I have debilitating anxiety and the system expects you to be able to manage getting help even if that’s what you need help with.
The pandemic broke my brain. The amt of complaining every one did about the lockdowns. All people were talking about was a life I was forced to subsist in because I was never given help. Last year I tried weed and it has helped a lot.
I don’t need to say I smoke weed X a day to myself. I’ll just say it to you or anyone else. Sound like a degenerate to who? You? Judgmental people?
I got tired of proving I’m not a “degenerate”. I would get off weed to prove to people around me I don’t need it, but it’s never enough. If you don’t think weed is medication then that’s on you.
Clearly "weed" is the slang term and "cannabis" is the name of the plant!
> These same potheads
This seems more like branding to me :P
The ultimate denial has to be the people with ADHD, because of course the only cure for ADHD is daily meth amphetamine use. "It actually calms me down"
Do they have a good reason not to get high? Alcohol is different because it’s much less healthy, more expensive, and causes hangovers. I can’t think of any side effects of non-smoked cannabis that last beyond the evening except for the stuff that matters in 30 years
From my perspective and my best rationalisation of it, when I'm bored or stressed I reach for a dopamine hit and weed is a great source of one. The next day I'll have a low and there's a 'battle' between the rational and want. The rational side almost never wins and I'll be in a daily usage cycle for months.
That being said I think it's an easier drug to break the cycle of with planning, since it only takes a few days of no use to dramatically improve my chances of resisting and honestly, if I didn't suffer from poor memory performance, I'd be okay as a daily smoker. But working is next to impossible at the level needed as a SDE.
I've been addicted to thc for much of my adult life. I know people who smoke much more than I ever did. I'd use every day, only after work, but I never didn't use it after work. I was using it as a crutch, I used it as a cure-all, I used it as a social lubricant. As mentioned in the article, I used it for anxiety, and the anxiety got worse.
I tried to quit a bunch of times, some more successfully than others. But quitting is really hard. I'd successfully exhaust my supply, but there's always bowl- and grinder-scrapings. After a night or two of smoking tar and dust, "fuck it", I'd find some more.
My #1 excuse was always sleep. Weed is the best sleep aid I've ever found. Quitting usually went fine until I wanted to go to bed. Several hours into a sleepless night, desperation sets in.
Eventually, I found a hack in LSD when I first had the determination to use it without mixing THC. I slept like a baby. No cravings the next day, or the next. I started dreaming again, after years of sleeping like a corpse and waking up exhausted.
I've since started and stopped a few times. Picked it back up to be social (and, hey, it's fun!), the habit-driving insomnia comes back with a vengeance. Stopping with LSD seems to work reliably for me. I only allow myself a hit of LSD per year, so that's how often I excuse a social session. But the last couple of times, I haven't needed the LSD. It seems that I finally kicked the compulsion. Although, I don't trust that enough to make it a more regular habit.
Edit reply to jrflowers:
No, I do not take acid to sleep. Taking it once allows me to quit thc cold turkey. I take it first thing in the morning, so I'm hungry for dinner and sleepy for bedtime. Last thing I need is a new habit.
Edit reply to gvedem (an hour and a half later I'm still "posting too fast" to make a second comment):
I bought the acid from a friend. I am aware that "one tab" is not a standardized dose and that adjacent tabs on a sheet can have significant discrepancy. But "one tab" is what I took.
>But quitting is really hard. I'd successfully exhaust my supply, but there's always bowl- and grinder-scrapings. After a night or two of smoking tar and dust, "fuck it", I'd find some more.
I've found my attempts to quit go better when I actually have a large supply of it that I'm consciously choosing not to indulge in. When your supply is exhausted your brain goes into a bit of a panic mode about it and you can't think rationally about how/why you're quitting.
> My #1 excuse was always sleep. Weed is the best sleep aid I've ever found. Quitting usually went fine until I wanted to go to bed. Several hours into a sleepless night, desperation sets in.
Weed and alcohol destroy your sleep. Taking marijuana to sleep is like hitting your toenail with a hammer so that when you stop you feel better, it does not make sense.
>My #1 excuse was always sleep. Weed is the best sleep aid I've ever found.
I started smoking weed to get to sleep when I was in a crappy college dorm with those awful cheap Venetian blinds and a streetlight outside the window that birds liked to congregate around and chirp all night. When I got older I found I could achieve the desired effect by lowering the indoor temperature, using a decent mattress, installing curtains and (this part is still hard to manage due to funds and neighbors) having a quiet room.
I take edibles / smoke a few times a week. Never during work hours. I think if I started consuming during work I would label myself an addict. I generally find I am a much better parent / husband when on a low dose of thc. My patience for my kids is infinite. I spend time with them just teaching them chess or showing them how to do pushups, or just talking. When not high, my mind wants to do a lot of other things that are generally unimportant and future focused. THC grounds me in the now. My wife prefers it as I am pretty much agreeable to whatever she wants [I mean this in a good way, not in a "I drug him so I get what I want way"]. I am generally an argumentative person, and sweat the small stuff. Not when I am high. I never drive or do anything risky while high. I'm also not taking so high a dose that I am making bad decisions [besides the next sentence].
If I could just avoid being hungry while high it would be perfect but eating a cake after spending an hour and a half at the gym is pretty dumb.
> When not high, my mind wants to do a lot of other things that are generally unimportant and future focused. THC grounds me in the now.
I had a joint-a-night (occasionally more) phase that lasted for 8 months and this resonates with my experience very much. A side effect that I miss dearly now that I am 6 months off of it. Rarely I succeed in trying to emulate it, but it’s still useful as a reference of a better state of mind, so its easier to spot when I stray away too much
Yes it’s similar for me. It’s strange because before I used to get very anxious when stoned and it was a generally unpleasant time.
But then I spent one year at home getting stoned and playing competitive video game Dota 2. And doing that seemed to melt my anxiety away. I learned how to be confident in my thoughts and perceptions under an alternate state of mind. The proof was winning a a match or seeing some strategy of mine pan out. And I learned when to ignore others and not let their thoughts influence me. I learned how to live in the present.
I don't really like talking about it anymore, I am 6 years sober and still dealing with related issues every day, but yes I feel like I can't talk openly about it. Skepticism is exactly how I would describe it. It's not strictly stigma, like is the case for most people who talk about drug addiction. It's most often a reaction of surprise, disbelief, and then resentment, like I'm a sleeper agent for reefer madness propaganda that they've just uncovered. Normally when you admit to a previous drug addiction that's had lasting impacts on you, the "bad result" is "Wow, I can't believe you're a druggie". With cannabis it's more like "Wow, I don't believe that that happened actually, weed is safe girl, it cures cancer". It is what it is.
In my experiences, cannabis is about as addictive as coffee/caffeine.
By that, I mean it's unpleasant to quit after continuous usage due to various withdrawal side-effects but only for a relatively short period of time (3 or 4 days max).
The coolest part of this whole discussion is that we can finally compare weed and alcohol.
Before the current weed era, weed was always compared favorably, by smokers, to alcohol with the adage: Weed is illegal, yet I've never seen a bar fight after everyone gets high.
Now we can do a real comparison of the effects of weed smoking on the general public, the same way we've done with drinking.
I was a heavy smoker through college living in a state where I could only buy through dealers. I was hanging out with one of my dealers once when they said, “if I drank as much as I smoked I’d be an alcoholic.” I realized I was an addict at that point but I didn’t think I had a problem. After all, I passed college with good grades and got a good job. I was generally happy and had few bad experiences on marijuana vastly outweighed by good ones.
Two things really bothered me though:
1. Any amount of smoking is bad for your lungs and I take my health seriously.
2. I don’t like the idea that a substance of any sort had power over me.
I made 2 changes after graduation to get things back under control:
1. I only do edibles except on special occasions like 04-20 or a holiday with friends. So few that I can count the number of times a year on one hand.
2. I only consume marijuana every other month.
I now consider myself a joyful consumer of the product because I prefer marijuana to alcohol on nights out with friends. I feel more in control and less tired the following day. Hitting the breaks every other month resets me. It proves to myself I’m still in control and keeps any cravings and tolerance down at a reasonable level.
I’m not sure if this will work for anyone else but thought I’d share.
Everything can be addictive. My stepsister is addicted to buying things and never opening the item. Her husband enables this because they live out in the country and he had a sort of "warehouse" built for her with huge metal racks that hold hudreds of items she has purchased over the years that have never been opened or had the shrink wrap disturbed. It is of course a type of hoardism. She buys things but if she opens the package and uses the item it ruins it is sort of how she explains it. We know it is a disorder of some sort, she is addicted to buying things and hoarding them. What should we do about it?
Well, if her husband is OK with it, then what is it for us to judge? I am conflicted on this. But, I think, there is some sort of line where something is addicting and addicting and harmful. If this is not disrupting their lives, and they are happy, who am I to judge?
I don't know. To me it is weird, but probably a lot of things I do seem weird to others. I journal daily. Is that an addiction? Probably, of some sort, I don't know. How to navigate. The less harmful it is, the less we should meddle I suppose.
It's clearly less damaging and chemically addictive than alcohol or whatever, but I wouldn't necessarily equate it with collecting Pokemon. I had a roommate who'd been persistently stoned for probably 30 years. A girlfriend convinced him to only use it on a few evenings a week, and he quickly realized that he'd entirely lost the ability to handle urgent negative emotions-- anger, frustration, disappointment, etc. He was still a great guy, but man did that put him through the ringer.
Normally steadfastly mellow, one day I heard him stomping up the stairs to our apartment, then stomped into the living room, looked at me and exasperatedly said "THE WHOLE WORLD IS STUPID. EVERYBODY IS STUPID. EVERYBODY SUCKS" and then went into his room, slammed the door, and literally screamed at the top of his lungs 4 or 5 times. About half an hour later, he came out, apologized and said he got blocked for maybe 45 seconds taking a left into our driveway because someone who'd stopped at the traffic light right there either rudely or obliviously didn't leave an opening, which pushed him right over the edge. I knew what he was going through, and knew he was talking to a therapist about it, so I wasn't worried for him... but I sure felt bad for him!
I am not sure where to start with on this article. There are a lot of extraneous and tired points being trotted out that really clouds the underlying point.
Essentially the point I took is some people could use serious help, and they get laughed at by society and the drug treatment programs they find because their problem is cannabis (and not say meth).
I don't think this is a surprise or that profound. Drug treatment in the US has been generally 'jail' (and still is for most drugs, and for cannabis as well in many regions). Actual drug treatment in the US is something of a joke for any substance, whether you are taken seriously or not. Drug treatment programs are expensive, often not covered by health insurance (if you have health insurance), often not effective - and that is the tip of the iceberg.
US medicine severely struggles for holistic treatments. Drug addiction treatment needs holistic treatment.
For example, detox centers will help a person come down and get over the most intense part of withdrawal. This is super important for alcohol as that withdrawal can kill you. But, this is symptomatic of how US medicine works - treats the chemical and biology, but not the person.
A couple of other notable points I'd like to raise:
> “You smell it in the air when you’re sitting at a stoplight,” Courtney said.
This made me laugh. Try to quit smoking tobacco... Try to give up alcohol. Both are _everywhere_
On a serious point, giving up any substance can be a real challenge, no matter what it is.
> and the potency of the drug has been increased —
This is such a boogeyman. Total amount of drug ingested is quantity times potency. Old school people made up the low potency with quantity. What is more though, there always was high potency strains available (just not as prevalent today). Thai sticks, hash oils, they have been around for a long time. So, the high potency stuff has been around, that is not new, and most people compensate for the high potency by ingesting less.
> This is such a boogeyman. Total amount of drug ingested is quantity times potency. Old school people made up the low potency with quantity. What is more though, there always was high potency strains available (just not as prevalent today). Thai sticks, hash oils, they have been around for a long time. So, the high potency stuff has been around, that is not new, and most people compensate for the high potency by ingesting less.
My supply back when I used to smoke was limited to “what my dealer had available.” There may have been better strains available, but I sure couldn’t get my hands on them. There’s also an issue of “minimum viable dose” - provided you have sufficient time and determination, you can get just as high with shitty weed as you can with the good stuff, but it’s an awful lot harder to get only as high with the good stuff as you did with the shitty stuff. I am pro-legalization and anti-drug war, but I hear this bromide about the enormously increased availability of high-potency THC products not leading people to consume more and I just wonder what world y’all are living on.
I have few friends who are seriously addicted. Their lives revolve entirely around cannabis. That being said, I don't think it's a particularly addictive substance. People get addicted to all sorts of things. For instance gambling, it's hard to believe someone can be addicted to that, yet people are...
As much as I think that Marijuana should be decriminalized completely. I also still think that it causes a ton of problems among those who smoke it. I've had friends change completely after starting to smoke habitually. I don't think it would be a problem if our society weren't so messed up right now. But, like alcohol, I think poverty and isolation just makes it so much worse.
As other comments have noted, just like with other addictions, it is extremely helpful/insightful to be able to see someone "further along" and say "I don't like what I see."
I interacted with and heard stories about family alcoholics when I was growing up and that is part of why I'm confident I won't develop a bad relationship with it myself. It's hard to forget what it does not just to the users, but to everyone around them.
Similarily, although I didn't see it growing up, as an adult I have seen some pretty hardcore stoners (high all the time), and I do not like the lifestyle that most seem to fall into. It's really easy to notice the cognitive decline when it happens to someone you know. Even if you want to be charitable, people at the very least behave quite differntly when they go from generally sober all the time to generaly stoned all the time. YMMV but I prefer generally sober people versus generally stoned people.
I think part of the strong correlation between stoners and legalization movements is because they're (rightfully!) self-interested in improving their own lifestyle, so they'll be the loudest and most experienced advocates. As much as I loathe the "marijuana can do no harm" attitude of some stoners, the still reactionary "omg drugs bad!" people are terrible. Making it illegal makes it so much worse for everyone involved, and you're not going to stop people from being involved with marijuana. More or less the same reasons we need to legalize sex work. It's here, it's always been here, and we need to learn how to cope with this reality in a healthy and safe manner. "Abstinence only" doesn't stop babies from being made any better than it stops people from using drugs. Education is the key (as it so often is).
I used to be a big fan of pot and a proponent of legalization but now I am not sure.
The impact of things is at the margins - people whose lives were going to work out well, will probably still be OK even with pot. People who were gonna have big problems probably will have them anyway. But I think there are some people who will be pushed from the "barely OK" to "not OK" category.
The legalization (vs decriminalization) has had a clear impact on the use. You used to smell pot when walking in NYC sometime, now you smell it consistently everywhere. You are constantly in the presence of high people which did not used to be the case.
In my own life there were historically some benefits to discovery of pot, but I also recognize that areas where I wasn't vigilant about it, had negative effects. For example times in my life when I had gotten fat correlate to when I smoked actively. I was vigilant for pot messing me up in obvious ways - eg I didn't let it make me miss work or stop dating etc - but the weight subtly crept on me.
[+] [-] neonate|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] extr|2 years ago|reply
However, these products are disappointingly few and far between. When I walk into a CA dispensary, I actually have to hunt around for them, if they're even available. When I ask, staff members wonder if I'm buying it for my grandmother! It would be great to see the industry refocus on products that are designed to be consumed in moderation.
[+] [-] ilteris|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hn_throwaway_99|2 years ago|reply
1. Buy D9 gummies and other edibles that contain up to 50mg D9 THC. Basically, since the law defines hemp as containing < .3% D9 THC, producers just extract all the D9 THC from hemp and inject it into edibles such that the total weight of the edible means there is still less than .3% D9 THC in the edible. These get me just as baked as "normal" weed gummies, they're just a bit bigger.
2. More surprising to me is the recent addition of "THCA Hemp Flower". To me these are just normal buds - I can grind them up and vape them and they get me just as high as "normal" weed. Basically these flowers contain low amounts of THC, but high amounts of THCA. But when you heat it, THCA turns into THC by decarboxylation. The thing that I don't understand is that I thought "normal" marijuana always needed to be heated anyway, e.g. why they say you can't just eat a weed bud but if you're making an edible you need to heat the oils first.
The gummies/edible workaround I can understand, but the THCA flower "workaround" seems like it's skirting really close to the edge of the law. Not that I'm complaining or anything, but it's weird to me how people don't know that weed is legal nationwide in the US.
[+] [-] zer8k|2 years ago|reply
It's a comparison problem. It won't kill you like alcohol withdrawals will or make you agitated like nicotine will. So then it must be okay right? These same potheads will quote studies and news articles talking about the benefits or just how risk free it is.
Its very similar to the way a functional alcoholic will justify their drinking. They even use avoidance language. 20 years ago we called it weed, now we call it "cannabis". Oh, you're not addicted to weed you're just using cannabis every hour of every day. I think legalization didn't help, nor hurt, but the re-branding of weed as "cannabis" while biologically correct gave these type of people a get out of jail free card. If you don't believe me, say to yourself "I smoke weed 8 times a day" versus "I use cannabis 8 times a day". One of them makes you sound like a degenerate, one of them makes you sound like you take a medication. That difference is very important in justifying addiction in the mind of an addict.
[+] [-] twelve40|2 years ago|reply
this has to be more nuanced, because according to this logic 100% of all humans have this addiction. If you confront a non-addict, they too will tell you that they don't have a problem.
[+] [-] messe|2 years ago|reply
Isn't denying an addiction when told one has an addiction also the first sign of not having an addiction? "Methinks the lady doth protest too much" works well and good for a play, but doesn't really meet the traditional standards for evidence.
[+] [-] maxbond|2 years ago|reply
The first sign of an addiction (at least, the first which is visible to an outside observer) is that it interferes with your life and you won't stop. Until about a week ago, I was a heavy daily cannabis user for a very long time (more than ten years). If you had asked me if I had an addiction, I would have said no.
Recently I came to believe I had Cannaboid Hyperemesis Syndrome, a disease for which the only cure is to quit cannabis. So I quit - immediately. I have a gigantic pile of weed in the house (I had just bought more when I started having symptoms), and I pass by it everyday. I just shake my head and go, "darn, wish I could smoke that," and go about my day.
That's not a story you're going to hear from an addict.
That's not to minimize the experience of people who do experience a cannabis addiction. I have known people I suspect have a problem. But no, cannabis and alcohol continue not to be comparable as far as their harm and addictive potential.
(And I have absolutely no regrets about my consumption, it was an incredible medication for my anxiety.)
[+] [-] bitcoin_anon|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gnulinux|2 years ago|reply
> while biologically correct gave these type of people a get out of jail free card.
Yikes.
I think part of the problem is ever since legalization weed became more mainstream (potentially dangerous) but weed-conservatism (i.e. exaggerating real risks of THC) also became much more common to encounter (also potentially dangerous). The reality is somewhere in between. I do not use THC, but as someone who used it previously and it tremendously helped me, my current mental model and set of anecdotes say you're likely wrong and exaggerating the real risk your friend is under.
[+] [-] rc5150|2 years ago|reply
"Ever since it became legal I have friends who spend majority of their day high. Of course, when confronted"
Maybe you should quit interrogating your friends to prop up your own puritanical moralities. All I see when I read your post is how much you hate people who use weed.
[+] [-] dragonwriter|2 years ago|reply
No, saying you don’t have an addiction may be a common thing addicts (and non-addicts!) do, but its not even close to the first sign of addiction. Or even a recognized symptom. Or even a recognized danger sign that would call for more intense screening. Its not a useful indicator of addiction at all.
> 20 years ago we called it weed, now we call it "cannabis".
“Weed”/“pot"/“ganja”/etc. are sonewhat vague slang. “Marijuana” and “hemp” are legal categories. “Cannabis” is a correct, precise term that encompasses both hemp and marijuana.
[+] [-] pengaru|2 years ago|reply
Before it became legal, I'm willing to bet those friends spent a majority of their day doing something equally unproductive. Be it playing video games, or watching tv, whatever $couch_potato_activity. And they're probably just doing the same stupid thing while high, because it's even more fun that way.
It's easy to villify a drug for what would happen either way, you're not proving a causal relationship. Pot and being a lazy slob dovetail quite nicely, just like pizza and beer. Nobody blames pizza and beer for the fat stained-shirt slob who never gets off their ass.
[+] [-] kerkeslager|2 years ago|reply
We don't know anything of the sort.
It's common for addicts to think they aren't addicted. But it's also common for non-addicts to think they aren't addicted, because, you know, they aren't.
It's just difficult in many cases to tell whether someone is addicted, and your confidence that you know isn't warranted, nor does it make you particularly helpful to addicts.
[+] [-] haswell|2 years ago|reply
The one area of major disagreement is regarding the "cannabis" designation. For me, this term is associated with the opposite connotation. When I started taking its effects more seriously, I started using the cannabis word because I feel it lends more respect to the plant. This wasn't originally my idea, and so I'm not alone in this.
This respect was part of my own mindset shift on usage away from habitual use. A way to remind myself to take it seriously, and to partake intentionally if/when I do.
Most people I know are pretty aware of their "problem" but have no intention of changing it. Calling it one thing over another might be a form of self deception for a few, but self deception will always find some answer.
> It won't kill you like alcohol withdrawals will or make you agitated like nicotine will. So then it must be okay right? These same potheads will quote studies and news articles talking about the benefits or just how risk free it is.
I do think we have major issues with how we paint these different groups. When someone is an alcoholic, they gain sympathy and support from society proportional to their maladaptive behaviors and/or willingness to address the issue.
"Potheads" is almost always derogatory, and I don't think people who struggle with this are seen in the same light as people who struggle with other drugs of abuse, and it's not surprising considering the pretty clear misconceptions the public has about cannabis as a whole.
And I think this is important to note, because one of the #1 emotional factors that leads to continued maladaptive substance use is shame. Society has progressed quite a bit towards supporting and celebrating people who struggle with drugs/alcohol. I don't think society has done the same with cannabis. Attitudes are closer to "they're just lazy and it's not even addictive so what's their problem?".
[+] [-] Cthulhu_|2 years ago|reply
But the side effect of being high all the time is indifference. Things can wait.
I don't think the wording makes much of a difference, that's like saying "I drink" vs "I imbibe alcohol". Or as South Park said it, "I'm not having a glass of wine, I'm having six, it's called a tasting and it's classy".
But it does become dangerous when people think of it as medicinal, as a kind of self-medication. Some people need it, for sure, but for a lot of people it's self-medicating without dealing with the root issues.
But then there's plenty of examples of self-medicating, ranging from sugar, energy drinks, video games, alcohol, sex, work, etc.
[+] [-] skinnymuch|2 years ago|reply
I had a rough childhood. I didn’t get help. I tried, but I have debilitating anxiety and the system expects you to be able to manage getting help even if that’s what you need help with.
The pandemic broke my brain. The amt of complaining every one did about the lockdowns. All people were talking about was a life I was forced to subsist in because I was never given help. Last year I tried weed and it has helped a lot.
I don’t need to say I smoke weed X a day to myself. I’ll just say it to you or anyone else. Sound like a degenerate to who? You? Judgmental people?
I got tired of proving I’m not a “degenerate”. I would get off weed to prove to people around me I don’t need it, but it’s never enough. If you don’t think weed is medication then that’s on you.
[+] [-] bennyschmidt|2 years ago|reply
Clearly "weed" is the slang term and "cannabis" is the name of the plant!
> These same potheads
This seems more like branding to me :P
The ultimate denial has to be the people with ADHD, because of course the only cure for ADHD is daily meth amphetamine use. "It actually calms me down"
[+] [-] asdf6677|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] catchnear4321|2 years ago|reply
this was the moment.
or was it? no, it was earlier.
> Of course, when confronted…
of course…
[+] [-] evandale|2 years ago|reply
Take your morals and shove them. Go look in the mirror and judge yourself if you want to judge somebody but leave me out of it.
[+] [-] Rapzid|2 years ago|reply
That's exactly what a criminal would say!
[+] [-] episiarch|2 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] vuln|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Weryj|2 years ago|reply
From my perspective and my best rationalisation of it, when I'm bored or stressed I reach for a dopamine hit and weed is a great source of one. The next day I'll have a low and there's a 'battle' between the rational and want. The rational side almost never wins and I'll be in a daily usage cycle for months.
That being said I think it's an easier drug to break the cycle of with planning, since it only takes a few days of no use to dramatically improve my chances of resisting and honestly, if I didn't suffer from poor memory performance, I'd be okay as a daily smoker. But working is next to impossible at the level needed as a SDE.
[+] [-] smokeitaway|2 years ago|reply
I tried to quit a bunch of times, some more successfully than others. But quitting is really hard. I'd successfully exhaust my supply, but there's always bowl- and grinder-scrapings. After a night or two of smoking tar and dust, "fuck it", I'd find some more.
My #1 excuse was always sleep. Weed is the best sleep aid I've ever found. Quitting usually went fine until I wanted to go to bed. Several hours into a sleepless night, desperation sets in.
Eventually, I found a hack in LSD when I first had the determination to use it without mixing THC. I slept like a baby. No cravings the next day, or the next. I started dreaming again, after years of sleeping like a corpse and waking up exhausted.
I've since started and stopped a few times. Picked it back up to be social (and, hey, it's fun!), the habit-driving insomnia comes back with a vengeance. Stopping with LSD seems to work reliably for me. I only allow myself a hit of LSD per year, so that's how often I excuse a social session. But the last couple of times, I haven't needed the LSD. It seems that I finally kicked the compulsion. Although, I don't trust that enough to make it a more regular habit.
Edit reply to jrflowers:
No, I do not take acid to sleep. Taking it once allows me to quit thc cold turkey. I take it first thing in the morning, so I'm hungry for dinner and sleepy for bedtime. Last thing I need is a new habit.
Edit reply to gvedem (an hour and a half later I'm still "posting too fast" to make a second comment):
I bought the acid from a friend. I am aware that "one tab" is not a standardized dose and that adjacent tabs on a sheet can have significant discrepancy. But "one tab" is what I took.
[+] [-] iceflinger|2 years ago|reply
I've found my attempts to quit go better when I actually have a large supply of it that I'm consciously choosing not to indulge in. When your supply is exhausted your brain goes into a bit of a panic mode about it and you can't think rationally about how/why you're quitting.
[+] [-] thefz|2 years ago|reply
Weed and alcohol destroy your sleep. Taking marijuana to sleep is like hitting your toenail with a hammer so that when you stop you feel better, it does not make sense.
[+] [-] scythe|2 years ago|reply
I started smoking weed to get to sleep when I was in a crappy college dorm with those awful cheap Venetian blinds and a streetlight outside the window that birds liked to congregate around and chirp all night. When I got older I found I could achieve the desired effect by lowering the indoor temperature, using a decent mattress, installing curtains and (this part is still hard to manage due to funds and neighbors) having a quiet room.
[+] [-] armatav|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jrflowers|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wonderwonder|2 years ago|reply
If I could just avoid being hungry while high it would be perfect but eating a cake after spending an hour and a half at the gym is pretty dumb.
[+] [-] lying4fun|2 years ago|reply
I had a joint-a-night (occasionally more) phase that lasted for 8 months and this resonates with my experience very much. A side effect that I miss dearly now that I am 6 months off of it. Rarely I succeed in trying to emulate it, but it’s still useful as a reference of a better state of mind, so its easier to spot when I stray away too much
[+] [-] mikhmha|2 years ago|reply
But then I spent one year at home getting stoned and playing competitive video game Dota 2. And doing that seemed to melt my anxiety away. I learned how to be confident in my thoughts and perceptions under an alternate state of mind. The proof was winning a a match or seeing some strategy of mine pan out. And I learned when to ignore others and not let their thoughts influence me. I learned how to live in the present.
[+] [-] cm2012|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lucubratory|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hirvi74|2 years ago|reply
By that, I mean it's unpleasant to quit after continuous usage due to various withdrawal side-effects but only for a relatively short period of time (3 or 4 days max).
[+] [-] clarge1120|2 years ago|reply
Before the current weed era, weed was always compared favorably, by smokers, to alcohol with the adage: Weed is illegal, yet I've never seen a bar fight after everyone gets high.
Now we can do a real comparison of the effects of weed smoking on the general public, the same way we've done with drinking.
[+] [-] tyleo|2 years ago|reply
Two things really bothered me though:
1. Any amount of smoking is bad for your lungs and I take my health seriously.
2. I don’t like the idea that a substance of any sort had power over me.
I made 2 changes after graduation to get things back under control:
1. I only do edibles except on special occasions like 04-20 or a holiday with friends. So few that I can count the number of times a year on one hand.
2. I only consume marijuana every other month.
I now consider myself a joyful consumer of the product because I prefer marijuana to alcohol on nights out with friends. I feel more in control and less tired the following day. Hitting the breaks every other month resets me. It proves to myself I’m still in control and keeps any cravings and tolerance down at a reasonable level.
I’m not sure if this will work for anyone else but thought I’d share.
[+] [-] zw123456|2 years ago|reply
Well, if her husband is OK with it, then what is it for us to judge? I am conflicted on this. But, I think, there is some sort of line where something is addicting and addicting and harmful. If this is not disrupting their lives, and they are happy, who am I to judge?
I don't know. To me it is weird, but probably a lot of things I do seem weird to others. I journal daily. Is that an addiction? Probably, of some sort, I don't know. How to navigate. The less harmful it is, the less we should meddle I suppose.
[+] [-] unfocused|2 years ago|reply
Dried or fresh plant and oil administration by ingestion or other means Psychoactive agent
https://www.canada.ca/content/dam/hc-sc/documents/services/d...
I think what people need to be reminded of is that addiction will always exist. Whether it is collecting Pokémon, Video Games, Gambling, Drugs etc.
What cannabis brings is less damage, post use, than say, Oxycontin. This is one simple example.
Not a doctor, so don't ask me for details!
[+] [-] chefandy|2 years ago|reply
Normally steadfastly mellow, one day I heard him stomping up the stairs to our apartment, then stomped into the living room, looked at me and exasperatedly said "THE WHOLE WORLD IS STUPID. EVERYBODY IS STUPID. EVERYBODY SUCKS" and then went into his room, slammed the door, and literally screamed at the top of his lungs 4 or 5 times. About half an hour later, he came out, apologized and said he got blocked for maybe 45 seconds taking a left into our driveway because someone who'd stopped at the traffic light right there either rudely or obliviously didn't leave an opening, which pushed him right over the edge. I knew what he was going through, and knew he was talking to a therapist about it, so I wasn't worried for him... but I sure felt bad for him!
[+] [-] seadan83|2 years ago|reply
Essentially the point I took is some people could use serious help, and they get laughed at by society and the drug treatment programs they find because their problem is cannabis (and not say meth).
I don't think this is a surprise or that profound. Drug treatment in the US has been generally 'jail' (and still is for most drugs, and for cannabis as well in many regions). Actual drug treatment in the US is something of a joke for any substance, whether you are taken seriously or not. Drug treatment programs are expensive, often not covered by health insurance (if you have health insurance), often not effective - and that is the tip of the iceberg.
US medicine severely struggles for holistic treatments. Drug addiction treatment needs holistic treatment.
For example, detox centers will help a person come down and get over the most intense part of withdrawal. This is super important for alcohol as that withdrawal can kill you. But, this is symptomatic of how US medicine works - treats the chemical and biology, but not the person.
Read further on the updated rat-park experiment for why 'treating the person' is so important: https://www.psychiatrictimes.com/view/what-does-rat-park-tea...
A couple of other notable points I'd like to raise:
> “You smell it in the air when you’re sitting at a stoplight,” Courtney said.
This made me laugh. Try to quit smoking tobacco... Try to give up alcohol. Both are _everywhere_
On a serious point, giving up any substance can be a real challenge, no matter what it is.
> and the potency of the drug has been increased —
This is such a boogeyman. Total amount of drug ingested is quantity times potency. Old school people made up the low potency with quantity. What is more though, there always was high potency strains available (just not as prevalent today). Thai sticks, hash oils, they have been around for a long time. So, the high potency stuff has been around, that is not new, and most people compensate for the high potency by ingesting less.
[+] [-] roughly|2 years ago|reply
My supply back when I used to smoke was limited to “what my dealer had available.” There may have been better strains available, but I sure couldn’t get my hands on them. There’s also an issue of “minimum viable dose” - provided you have sufficient time and determination, you can get just as high with shitty weed as you can with the good stuff, but it’s an awful lot harder to get only as high with the good stuff as you did with the shitty stuff. I am pro-legalization and anti-drug war, but I hear this bromide about the enormously increased availability of high-potency THC products not leading people to consume more and I just wonder what world y’all are living on.
[+] [-] unknown|2 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] yodsanklai|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] foxyv|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tetrep|2 years ago|reply
I interacted with and heard stories about family alcoholics when I was growing up and that is part of why I'm confident I won't develop a bad relationship with it myself. It's hard to forget what it does not just to the users, but to everyone around them.
Similarily, although I didn't see it growing up, as an adult I have seen some pretty hardcore stoners (high all the time), and I do not like the lifestyle that most seem to fall into. It's really easy to notice the cognitive decline when it happens to someone you know. Even if you want to be charitable, people at the very least behave quite differntly when they go from generally sober all the time to generaly stoned all the time. YMMV but I prefer generally sober people versus generally stoned people.
I think part of the strong correlation between stoners and legalization movements is because they're (rightfully!) self-interested in improving their own lifestyle, so they'll be the loudest and most experienced advocates. As much as I loathe the "marijuana can do no harm" attitude of some stoners, the still reactionary "omg drugs bad!" people are terrible. Making it illegal makes it so much worse for everyone involved, and you're not going to stop people from being involved with marijuana. More or less the same reasons we need to legalize sex work. It's here, it's always been here, and we need to learn how to cope with this reality in a healthy and safe manner. "Abstinence only" doesn't stop babies from being made any better than it stops people from using drugs. Education is the key (as it so often is).
[+] [-] xyzelement|2 years ago|reply
The impact of things is at the margins - people whose lives were going to work out well, will probably still be OK even with pot. People who were gonna have big problems probably will have them anyway. But I think there are some people who will be pushed from the "barely OK" to "not OK" category.
The legalization (vs decriminalization) has had a clear impact on the use. You used to smell pot when walking in NYC sometime, now you smell it consistently everywhere. You are constantly in the presence of high people which did not used to be the case.
In my own life there were historically some benefits to discovery of pot, but I also recognize that areas where I wasn't vigilant about it, had negative effects. For example times in my life when I had gotten fat correlate to when I smoked actively. I was vigilant for pot messing me up in obvious ways - eg I didn't let it make me miss work or stop dating etc - but the weight subtly crept on me.
[+] [-] psychphysic|2 years ago|reply
Society will drown under obese patients long before we need to worry about pot heads.