[drtz]

I once did a lunch and learn at work where I tried to teach coworkers how to use vim efficiently. It turned out to be the absolute worst lunch and learn I ever did.

It's just so unintuitive and trying to teach it in a "here are some good shortcuts that will save you time" way was a near-total waste.

vim is the closest any editor comes to interfacing directly with my brain. Once you learn to make your neurons fire in the right way to move the cursor to the right spot, it's easy and there's no better way to edit code. Describing the neuron firing order to someone else, though, is futile.

It's like learning to to use your fingers to pick something up for the first time as a kid: you just have to try enough times until it sticks.

[arcanemachiner]

> vim is the closest any editor comes to interfacing directly with my brain.

It's funny you mention that. Just today, I had this moment where I realized that if someone asked me which key letters are used to move up/down/left/right, I'd have to pause and think about it.

I've been using Vim for years. Like, my index finger rests on the down key, so J is down. I think? And so on... My middle finger rests on the up key, so K goes up? Do I actually have to move my index finger to go left? What is my pinky doing most of the time?

It's just funny how all this stuff is burned into my brain but I wouldn't even be able to tell someone the basics without a keyboard in front of me.

[Lio]

It's even weirder for me as I use the Colemak keyboard layout.

When I first switched to Colemak, around 2010, I remapped the movement keys so that they were in the same physical location as hjkl on qwerty.

Then I realised I'd lost compatibility with other readline based software. So I just learned to use the new, not particularly ergonomic, positions under Colemak.

At this point it's almost always from muscle memory now and couldn't tell you what I press half the time.

Vim is like the Great Glass Elevator, it has a button for moving in every direction and using it since the 90s has been like learning to play a musical instrument.

[Izkata]

> so J is down. I think? And so on... My middle finger rests on the up key, so K goes up?

Nope, j is down. J combines the current line with the next line, reducing whitespace between to 1 space.

Back when I first figured out what J was doing (having typo'd it regularly) I thought it was useless, then one day I just started reflexively using it when manipulating function arguments.

Likewise, k is up, K looks up the word under the cursor in a man page.

[fragmede]

Passwords are the same way for me. I can type my password on a keyboard, but if I have to enter it on my phone, I have no idea what it actually is. Thankfully, a password manager deals with most of my passwords but there is a few that I don't use it for.

[byttemos]

Pretty novice Vim user here. I FOR SURE think about it, and it costs me quite a bit of brain power to navigate. I made my own way pf remembering:

H = the leftmost key, so left L = the rightmost key, so right J = jeet (yeet), so down K = klimb (climb), so up

I look forward to the day this is just burned into my subconscious, but until then, this works I suppose

[tylerhou]

j goes down because it looks like a down arrow.

[gsich]

easy, the arrow keys.

[chongli]

Yeah, I think you'd have the same issue trying to teach people to play guitar over the lunch hour. It takes a lot of practice to learn vim but it's super rewarding once you do!

[_the_inflator]

As a side note: "Lunch and learn" is work for me. I have a strikt rule, that whenever someone talks heavily about work at lunch, I consider it a meeting - just as "lunch and work". Therefore I will take a work break afterwards.

Lunch is !work for me.

[wycy]

Agreed completely. “Lunch and learns” and “brown bags”. I didn’t appreciate my old employer frequently co-opting my lunch breaks with more work.

[hnlmorg]

I know exactly what you mean. At work people constantly ask me what keys do what and the moment they do my mind goes completely blank. To the point that I even forgot how to use vim for a short while until the conscious part of my brain is preoccupied with something else and suddenly I can use vim again.

[Aperocky]

I think all quick learning session of vim invariably turns into bootcamp style "learning to code". Jumps straight into what but not how and why.

To know what modal editing is and understand that first is going to help - but then your learning session is over like that without teaching any "tricks".

[erfgh]

It's just different keyboard shortcuts than the other editors. That is pretty much it. You don't need to be so dramatic.

Also, in the GUI version of vim you have scrollbars, toolbar, and the standard keyboard shortcuts work, too. So you can use it like any other editor.

[quickthrower2]

You can get vim simulators in most editors too. Even Emacs. The interesting question becomes whether you still prefer VIM as an editor. One advantage is you can use the same editor over SSH. If it is not there it is quick to install.

[ecf]

The issue with Vim for me is that it takes years for the keybinds to be picked up as muscle memory. Learning takes effort, people can’t learn everything. And there’s an endless amount of things I can learn other than Vim that will give me a more fulfilling life.

[TheGreatCabbage]

In my case, it only took a few months to be more effective with Vim than without it. Since I spend most of my time working, Vim is a great improvement to my quality of life. The benefits of Vim include not just productivity, but also comfort.

[fuzztester]

I think it's more of a needed mental shift than years or effort that is the stumbling block.

You don't need to pick up a lot of keybinds in order to be fairly productive at text editing in vim.

The extra stuff will just make you more productive, maybe asymptomatically.

[FreshStart]

It helps to design the yourself in neovim?

[slim]

OTOH watching someone else use vim when you already know the basics of vim is enlightening

[linsomniac]

I like to think of vim as bytecode for text manipulation. You train your brain to emit the bytecode via your fingers.

[vram22]

Ha ha. Vimcode, though.

And "vim" is pretty close to "vm" for virtual machine that runs that vimcode, or bytecode :)

[gjvc]

You're a bad teacher. No shame in that.