[admaiora]

A product using free and open-source data generated by the OSM community plus crowd sourcing traffic and keeping the code proprietary does not sit well with me. You can have a paid product but open source the project.

[friend_and_foe]

It doesn't sit well with anyone familiar with OSM. This doesn't really have a good market fit; people who don't care about these things just use google, anyone that would use this won't use proprietary software, and especially anyone that uses OSM exclusively such as myself.

[Accacin]

I run GrapheneOS, and have Magic Earth installed for car navigation.

The reason for that is it's search actually works, it displays live traffic info, and they have a simple easy-to-read privacy policy: https://www.magicearth.com/privacy/

Would it be better open source? Yeah, for sure. However, as far as I can tell, they abide by all the licencing terms for OSM, etc.

[lucideer]

I think this would have been true in the past, but it may be changing. Google are fast degrading their maps UX as part of their maps monetisation efforts, to the point that backlash has even reached normal users. I was listening to a very mainstream commute-time FM radio talkshow yesterday that brought up Google Maps' UX degradation - that's an extremely non-tech audience. I can see a new space growing in the market for people wanting a Google alternative for reasons entirely removed from ethics.

In addition to all of the above, Maps.me has had a pretty ample userbase for a long time now - while it is technically an open-source codebase (to the extent its even been forked & put on FDroid), its privacy policy & general Russian links of the company behind it still leave a lot of red flags for your typical OSM users.

[GoldenRacer]

I use it. It works substantially better than other OSM based map apps imo. My big use case for it is I frequently travel places without cell service and like having a mapping app where I can download whole regions worth of maps to use offline.

[Aachen]

> It doesn't sit well with anyone familiar with OSM.

Please speak for yourself :) OSM contributor here: I'm already happy if there's a great mapping product that uses open geo data, might not use it myself if it's closed source but it's better than google keeping everything to itself or behind a paywall. I understand it costs them money to keep their map up to date, but they could also collaborate with the rest of us and have free geo data for all. Apple taking OSM data for their devices, for example, is to me exciting rather than "not sitting well". I'd be ten times as thrilled if they'd open source it, don't get me wrong, but still

[KoftaBob]

Yet surprisingly, the majority of the iOS apps that OSM themselves list on their wiki are closed source:

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Comparison_of_iOS_applic...

[nerdponx]

The problem with crowdsourcing data is that you need a crowd, the bigger the better.

[mmaia]

> This doesn't really have a good market fit; people who don't care about these things just use google

Counterexample: Mapbox [1]

1- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mapbox

[OGWhales]

An open-source alternative is Organic Maps: https://github.com/organicmaps/organicmaps

[striking]

I ended up in the winding mountain roads near Saratoga without cell service, and though I had SF downloaded on Google Maps, I hadn't added the rest of the Bay. We decided we wanted to change our destination and realized we wouldn't have any further navigation only after canceling our current trip.

But then I remembered I had Organic Maps tucked away, ready to go, with a highly detailed map of California for offline navigation use.

Big thanks to Organic Maps for making me seem prepared and allowing me to recover gracefully from what could otherwise have been a somewhat annoying situation.

[executesorder66]

I tend to agree with admaiora. And Organic Maps is a cool project. However I shared this post because it's the first OSM based map/routing project I've seen that actually has traffic data. I thought that was interesting. It is disappointing that the traffic info isn't open as well.

[kzrdude]

Does it have live traffic information? It looks quite polished but for an offline feature set OsmAnd~ has a lot more and is more established. OsmAnd does not (to my knowledge) have any live traffic info.

[mdaniel]

> Receiving objects: 100% (556180/556180), 5.88 GiB | 3.33 MiB/s, done.

What the holy hell is going on with that repo? do they `git add local.osm.dump` or something? I mean, I was kidding but evidently not that crazy far off: https://github.com/organicmaps/organicmaps/blob/master/data/...

I was expecting to find `git add release/organicmaps-1.0.apk` which is a super common "I've never used git before" antipattern

---

since I already paid the price, some `git archive HEAD | tar -tvf - | sort -k3 -n` coughed up

    -rw-rw-r-- root/root   1854526 2023-08-07 05:45 android/src/fdroid/play/listings/en-US/graphics/phone-screenshots/1.jpg
    -rw-rw-r-- root/root   1863096 2023-08-07 05:45 tools/shaders_compiler/linux/mali_compiler_es3/openglessl/libMali-T600_r11p0-00rel0.so
    -rw-rw-r-- root/root   2583640 2023-08-07 05:45 tools/shaders_compiler/linux/mali_compiler_es3/openglessl/libMali-T600_r12p0-00rel0.so
    -rw-rw-r-- root/root   3017640 2023-08-07 05:45 tools/shaders_compiler/linux/mali_compiler_es3/openglessl/libMali-T600_r13p0-00rel0.so
    -rw-rw-r-- root/root   3155104 2023-08-07 05:45 data/06_code2000.ttf
    -rw-rw-r-- root/root   3451900 2023-08-07 05:45 data/02_droidsans-fallback.ttf
    -rw-rw-r-- root/root   3676527 2023-08-07 05:45 data/packed_polygons.bin
    -rw-rw-r-- root/root   4696613 2023-08-07 05:45 software_renderer/default_font.cpp
    -rwxrwxr-x root/root   6131664 2023-08-07 05:45 tools/shaders_compiler/linux/glslangValidator
    -rwxrwxr-x root/root   6498904 2023-08-07 05:45 tools/shaders_compiler/macos/glslangValidator
    -rw-rw-r-- root/root   7315682 2023-08-07 05:45 3party/opening_hours/opening_hours_integration_tests/opening-count.lst
    -rw-rw-r-- root/root   8384030 2023-08-07 05:45 data/kml_test_data/test.kmz
    -rw-rw-r-- root/root   8757104 2023-08-07 05:45 data/WorldCoasts.mwm
    -rw-rw-r-- root/root 20,461,104 2023-08-07 05:45 tools/shaders_compiler/linux/mali_compiler_es3/openglessl/libMali-Gxx_r3p0-00rel0.so
    -rw-rw-r-- root/root 43,812,962 2023-08-07 05:45 data/World.mwm
    -rw-rw-r-- root/root 50,994,390 2023-08-07 05:45 data/dictionary.slf

and then, as I feared

    $ git log --format='%cs %s' -- data/World.mwm
    2023-07-13 [planet] New data from 230710.
    2023-06-05 [planet] New data from 230602.
    2023-05-08 [planet] New data from 230503.
    2023-04-02 [planet] New data from 230329.
    2023-03-01 [planet] New data from 230227.
    2023-02-13 [planet] New data from 230210.
    2023-01-24 [planet] New data from 230121.

[Zak]

While I'd prefer something completely community-driven and open source, the fact that this app is on the OSM wiki suggests the project is generally OK with it.

I was just wishing for a Waze alternative last night, and here it is. It's proprietary and commercial, but it's not from FAANG or a company subject to the Chinese or Russian governments. I'll take that as an improvement.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Magic_Earth

[pietervdvn]

Being on the wiki does not necessarily indicate "official endorsement". However, as long as the app holds onto the official copyright guidelines (see https://openstreetmap.org/copyright - more or less equivalent to CC-BY-SA), a closed source,commercial app is perfectly fine.

[ho_schi]

Describes Komoot and “social” media.

I recommend Brouter instead of Komoot: https://bikerouter.de/

Best thing. Your planned route isn’t stored there, it is your actual link to the website. Incredible simple and reusable.

[jeffreygoesto]

Using BRouter together with OsmAnd for convertible (small roads) and bike (i.e. gravel paths) trips. Works like a charm and completely offline.

[foooorsyth]

They’re not violating the OSM data license. Why would it “not sit well” with you that they keep their client closed source and try to earn a real living?

>you can have a paid product but open source the project

And you’ll instantly create 10 competitors overnight. If you use the GPL, those competitors will just be Chinese or from some non-western jurisdiction that doesn’t care about GPL enforcement.

Man, rms followers are annoying. Stop trying to GPL the entire internet. Magic Earth is a great tool. A big part of why it’s great is probably because its authors were motivated by profit.

[dspillett]

While your main point, that in this case no license or other agreement is being broken and there is no evidence to suggest that the OSM project is unhappy with the situation…

> If you use the GPL, those competitors will just be Chinese or from some non-western jurisdiction that doesn’t care about GPL enforcement.

This is true – some in China will use GPL code and not stick to the license and that may be a competitive advantage over companies that do play ball¹. But other people ignoring the license should not be considered a reason for anyone else not to, and that shouldn't stop people choosing the GPL if that is what they want for their software.

> Man, rms followers are annoying. Stop trying to GPL the entire internet.

Man, anti-GPL people are annoying. Stop trying to have someone else's cake and eat it. :)

--

[1] Onyx and their Boox range² being one example, last I heard the company was trying to play the race card and make it an anti-China-sentiment issue instead of a blatantly-disregarding-a-license-agreement matter.

[2] Not the only issue that puts me off those devices, apparently hidden call home code is present and always active on at least some of them.

[edoloughlin]

The post doesn't mention RMS, GPL or the entire internet. Is everything ok?

[mark_undoio]

I think the key thing with OSM is that the data is open.

It would be nice if this app had more open code and it's nice if people contribute back to the data set too.

But the database is the open source artifact here, not the software - as long as they're respecting that then it feels ok, even if more would be desirable.

[Accacin]

Odd, because in reality they can do whatever the OSM licence allows.

I still find it very odd that people have problems with projects using open source projects as the licence allows.

[StockHuman]

The displeasure is the the same as that from “not returning the shopping cart;” it isn’t illegal to do so and no one will punish you, but the community as a whole is collectively taken advantage of when you do so.

[OfSanguineFire]

> A product using free and open-source data generated by the OSM community plus crowd sourcing traffic and keeping the code proprietary does not sit well with me.

This is already common. For example, Komoot which is now big in the bicycle-travel world, uses OSM data but keeps its code proprietary and even locks community-generated content down.

[rglullis]

Is there a just-as-good FOSS alternative? Or at least one that could catch up if it receives more support?