A number of my acquaintances (rural Montana) went through this after high school. It is noble and it is well-intentioned. When students stick with it it often opens new opportunities that wouldn't be available otherwise.
But it's not a silver bullet, and it requires a certain amount of diligence and self-awareness to be able to finish the program. It's not a party atmosphere like college or entry-level employment can be: how many 19-year-olds do you know who want to live in a dorm setting and show up on time? How many 22-year-olds want to go months without drinking?
That said, it's a clear and coherent step forward for people who might otherwise feel lost, and that's a very good thing.
Now, if only they had something for NEETs over job corps's age limit....
> Now, if only they had something for NEETs over job corps's age limit....
A bit ironic that the cut off is 24 and the rough age of full brain maturity is 25 (and loss of parental insurance is 26). So the young adults that had poor/no guidance or made poor decisions in youth don’t get this opportunity once they get their head on straight and realize they need to acquire some skills (pretty common character arc for young men, at least in my circles).
This is a term used in the field of education, the acronym stands for; Not in Education, Employment or Training but young people have started to use it as a term for bums/layabouts with no future.
My ex-gf's sister went through this and lasted until a week before the end when she decided to get into a fist fight with another girl at the program. They immediately sent her back home and she lost everything she had gained. This ending up also eventually being the catalyst for losing her kids to the system.
I personally do not see why job training should have anything like an age requirement. If you're old enough to be on your own, and you need assistance, then assistance should be made available to you.
The site says some of the centers let you live off campus. And why do you say you have to go months without drinking? I understand there won't be college parties there, but I assume you're welcome to go to a bar in your free time if you want to? A lot of the centers are in or near cities.
Not only is it not a silver bullet, but they're just flat out bullshitting these kids.
"Computer Technician Network+, average salary $68,90x - $108,xxx" LOL. Please show me the employer willing to hire an 18-24 year old graduate of this Job Corps program for $69k to $108k.
Some of the salary estimates are so hilariously off the mark.
My brother went through the job corp program in the mid aughts outside of Portland, Oregon.
It was a great experience for him. He struggled throughout school[0], so at the beginning of his high school "career" he dropped out in favor of job corps. As a double-whammy, he's autistic. The structure of expectations and responsibilities that each individual had to handle every day worked great for him.
Ultimately he didn't enter the career field he chose for job corps, but it did set him up for success later. Inevitably he ends up in leadership positions at places he works.
He also got his high school diploma through the program.
[0] Generally because he didn't fit in socially, and teachers treated him differently. He's very smart, but historically had a difficult time applying himself.
Ah yes, that program. I tried to get in, but my parents made too much, so I didn't qualify.
Did they share their significant income with me? Hah NO. Did they contribute to any college? $2000. Oh wait, that was from my grandpa's will.
My income was like $15000/yr, from working at a Subway. Real big wage earner. But nope, my worthless parents made bank so I didn't get any help to succeed.
Fuck the whole "well your parents are rich so you also must be".
Oh man, the Free Application for Federal Student Aid (FAFSA) form was pretty brutal too for getting federal aid for college. My parents intended to (and indeed did) help me with paying for college, and their income was very modest by FAFSA's own standards. But my parents had a decent chunk of money for their own (also modest) retirement, and FAFSA plugs that into the "expected family contribution" which significantly affects your eligibility for aid.
I guess I could kinda see some argument for that, like "because your parents have secured some financial stability for their own retirement, they should be able to contribute more towards college now," but it still seems kinda odd that a kid from a family with the same income but less saved for retirement would get more financial aid.
Happened to a friend of mine with the FAFSA. Her parents didn't want her to go to college, so provided no money and even refused to fill out the FAFSA. Fortunately she was able to work something out with the senior administration of one of the colleges she was admitted to.
I understand why they take parents income into account; it makes sense for the majority, but it's pretty impressive how badly your parents can legally screw over your life after you are legally an adult.
I've known several people who went through Job Corps, got back to our home town, and then went right back to being lumps on a log. One person I know made their "living" scamming government benefits after going through Job Corps, and never worked in the industry they were trained in. The saddest part is all of them would have made many times more income just working in the field they were trained in /and/ the jobs were available, but a large number of people simply don't want to "work" (ironically, since they sometimes invest more effort for less return to scam than doing a real job).
I don't know what to do about the sociopsychological issues that plague the lower class in this country, and it really rarely has anything to do with a skills gap (skills are easily obtainable for those who want to obtain them).
>but a large number of people simply don't want to "work" (ironically, since they sometimes invest more effort for less return to scam than doing a real job).
As you point out, it's also not about the effort. It's also not just the lower class that is effected. It's a problem at all socioeconomic levels. it's just much easier to hide it the more money you make.
It has nothing to do with not wanting to work. It's about not being healthy.
We do not optimize for health in this country. We optimize for profit making. It's not surprising we are massively unhealthy. What is perhaps surprising is that we're so stuck to the idea that profit making is the most important thing to optimize for, instead of individual health.
> a large number of people simply don't want to "work"
Nothing wrong with this. If I didn’t have to work for money and health insurance, I wouldn’t. Have simply never had any desired to “work” in my entire life.
The wages are too low. Without assistance, they'd probably commit suicide, so you're logic is based on a false binary. A job that doesn't earn a base level of dignity is not necessarily worth living for, so people give up. It's very simple.
My grandfather was an academic who studied 'socially alienated adolescents' and was the original director of this program when it was developed back in the 60's. This is one of his original lectures on the social dynamics that drove the program: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPwV8miW46I&ab_channel=Natio...
I used to teach algebra to students going through JobCorps. It was a second chance for young men and women who didn't get their diploma the first time around. I truly believed in the mission of preparing a new generation with education, life skills, and vocational training to let them become productive and enthusiastic members of our society.
The site in San Jose Job Corps was run with some of the most awesome humans. I worked for John Muir Charter School, who worked in cooperation with the California Conservation Corps — the hardy souls who go out to take care of our forests and trails. It was hard work, but awesome stuff.
It's refreshing to see that the website has a bunch of tiny CSS stylesheets in the source rather than a bundled mess that is frontend these days. There are also a bunch of JS scripts at the bottom. It's been so long since I've seen modern sites have those. (Seems like they used Drupal as per the generator name.)
IIRC, it was started as part of the large antipoverty efforts that began in the '60s. It was specifically meant to help reduce the rate of unemployment in young people.
It was basically the modern (at the time) version of a similar program used to help recover from the great depression.
Politically, it meshes well with the ideals of both the right and the left[1], which I think is why it remains largely considered a good thing regardless of your political bent.
[1] Americans tend to forget, especially lately, that the right and the left agree on far more things than they disagree on.
Doesn't surprise me. Not sure what stereotypical Republican you have in your mind, but I'd assume it's the kids that hate government assistance like food stamps.
They hate government programs that promote lifelong government assistance and discourage work for those they think shouldn't need it.
This government program is literally the opposite long term goal: it encourages work, and hopes to reduce government assistance after this one-time program is finished.
You can try and further an ideological religion all you like, but I am family friends with a job corp director in a deep red state, they get everything they ask for from their state legislature.
If anything I’m sure Republicans would rather we require welfare recipients to undertake a boot camp program to force them into the labor force. This seems right up the alley.
I hear you, but it's probably a good thing. I've noticed that the more targeted a program is, the better it tends to be. I've seen many programs get ruined for everybody by trying to do too much.
[+] [-] presidentender|2 years ago|reply
But it's not a silver bullet, and it requires a certain amount of diligence and self-awareness to be able to finish the program. It's not a party atmosphere like college or entry-level employment can be: how many 19-year-olds do you know who want to live in a dorm setting and show up on time? How many 22-year-olds want to go months without drinking?
That said, it's a clear and coherent step forward for people who might otherwise feel lost, and that's a very good thing.
Now, if only they had something for NEETs over job corps's age limit....
[+] [-] foooorsyth|2 years ago|reply
A bit ironic that the cut off is 24 and the rough age of full brain maturity is 25 (and loss of parental insurance is 26). So the young adults that had poor/no guidance or made poor decisions in youth don’t get this opportunity once they get their head on straight and realize they need to acquire some skills (pretty common character arc for young men, at least in my circles).
[+] [-] chrisweekly|2 years ago|reply
NEET
This is a term used in the field of education, the acronym stands for; Not in Education, Employment or Training but young people have started to use it as a term for bums/layabouts with no future.
[+] [-] MisterBastahrd|2 years ago|reply
I personally do not see why job training should have anything like an age requirement. If you're old enough to be on your own, and you need assistance, then assistance should be made available to you.
[+] [-] burkaman|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ChrisMarshallNY|2 years ago|reply
By the time I was 22, it had been 4 years.
Just sayin'...
But I suspect it's nothing, compared to army life.
[+] [-] cercatrova|2 years ago|reply
Most college kids? Even the no-drinking part these days comprises many college students, the number of young people who don't drink is rising.
[+] [-] ForHackernews|2 years ago|reply
Sounds like all the young people in the military.
[+] [-] topato|2 years ago|reply
... asking for a friend
[+] [-] la64710|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cbozeman|2 years ago|reply
"Computer Technician Network+, average salary $68,90x - $108,xxx" LOL. Please show me the employer willing to hire an 18-24 year old graduate of this Job Corps program for $69k to $108k.
Some of the salary estimates are so hilariously off the mark.
[+] [-] toasted-subs|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] schultzie|2 years ago|reply
It was a great experience for him. He struggled throughout school[0], so at the beginning of his high school "career" he dropped out in favor of job corps. As a double-whammy, he's autistic. The structure of expectations and responsibilities that each individual had to handle every day worked great for him.
Ultimately he didn't enter the career field he chose for job corps, but it did set him up for success later. Inevitably he ends up in leadership positions at places he works.
He also got his high school diploma through the program.
[0] Generally because he didn't fit in socially, and teachers treated him differently. He's very smart, but historically had a difficult time applying himself.
[+] [-] pierat|2 years ago|reply
Did they share their significant income with me? Hah NO. Did they contribute to any college? $2000. Oh wait, that was from my grandpa's will.
My income was like $15000/yr, from working at a Subway. Real big wage earner. But nope, my worthless parents made bank so I didn't get any help to succeed.
Fuck the whole "well your parents are rich so you also must be".
[+] [-] tshaddox|2 years ago|reply
I guess I could kinda see some argument for that, like "because your parents have secured some financial stability for their own retirement, they should be able to contribute more towards college now," but it still seems kinda odd that a kid from a family with the same income but less saved for retirement would get more financial aid.
[+] [-] aidenn0|2 years ago|reply
I understand why they take parents income into account; it makes sense for the majority, but it's pretty impressive how badly your parents can legally screw over your life after you are legally an adult.
[+] [-] unknown|2 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] tristor|2 years ago|reply
I don't know what to do about the sociopsychological issues that plague the lower class in this country, and it really rarely has anything to do with a skills gap (skills are easily obtainable for those who want to obtain them).
[+] [-] jmcqk6|2 years ago|reply
As you point out, it's also not about the effort. It's also not just the lower class that is effected. It's a problem at all socioeconomic levels. it's just much easier to hide it the more money you make.
It has nothing to do with not wanting to work. It's about not being healthy.
We do not optimize for health in this country. We optimize for profit making. It's not surprising we are massively unhealthy. What is perhaps surprising is that we're so stuck to the idea that profit making is the most important thing to optimize for, instead of individual health.
[+] [-] paulcole|2 years ago|reply
Nothing wrong with this. If I didn’t have to work for money and health insurance, I wouldn’t. Have simply never had any desired to “work” in my entire life.
[+] [-] asu_thomas|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] worldsoup|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] PeterCorless|2 years ago|reply
The site in San Jose Job Corps was run with some of the most awesome humans. I worked for John Muir Charter School, who worked in cooperation with the California Conservation Corps — the hardy souls who go out to take care of our forests and trails. It was hard work, but awesome stuff.
[+] [-] giovannibonetti|2 years ago|reply
https://archive.is/5tnbW
[+] [-] unknown|2 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] serhack_|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] herpderperator|2 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] anon115|2 years ago|reply
california conservation corps https://ccc.ca.gov/
its like this but much more cooler i think i was about to move in but due to health reasons of my own i couldnt :(((
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[+] [-] iandanforth|2 years ago|reply
"The Amazon CloudFront distribution is configured to block access from your country."
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[+] [-] JohnFen|2 years ago|reply
It was basically the modern (at the time) version of a similar program used to help recover from the great depression.
Politically, it meshes well with the ideals of both the right and the left[1], which I think is why it remains largely considered a good thing regardless of your political bent.
[1] Americans tend to forget, especially lately, that the right and the left agree on far more things than they disagree on.
[+] [-] borh375|2 years ago|reply
They hate government programs that promote lifelong government assistance and discourage work for those they think shouldn't need it.
This government program is literally the opposite long term goal: it encourages work, and hopes to reduce government assistance after this one-time program is finished.
[+] [-] tomrod|2 years ago|reply
EDIT: seems like for older individuals it results in positive returns (I only glanced over the abstract): https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/29730155.pdf
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