Doom for 16-bit DOS computers

[erkkonet]

For those that wonder how it looks, I found a video:

https://twitter.com/FOmmetje/status/1696266683756003451

or if you prefer:

https://nitter.net/FOmmetje/status/1696266683756003451

[larschdk]

This is sped up (look at the cursor blinking fast). This guy's experience on a 24 Mhz 286 is more like 0.1-0.2 fps. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1911540009

[kristopolous]

That's pretty good. There was another early 2.5D game that ran on my IBM PC that I played in around 1994 that this reminds me of. I'll go search for it now

Back, that was fast https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catacomb_Abyss

I think the framerate was closer to like 5fps or so.

I was under the impression that this series running on an 8088 was a unique property but Wikipedia fails to mention it. I was a kid then so let's just presume I was wrong

[ChrisArchitect]

When I hear 8088 I'm picturing like an IBM PC original from like 1981, so seeing the video of this running on a 286 isn't as impressive in the end.

[iancmceachern]

Looks about how wolfenstein 3d ran on my 286 Tandy 1000 rlx. Luckily you could reduce the graphics window size and dramatically improve performance

[thecatspaw]

surprisingly smooth considering that its reading all the textures from disk every frame

[gwbas1c]

Looks just like the DOS Doom that I played in the 1990s

[MBCook]

> Super slow because for every frame every necessary image is read from the hard disk and for every calculation involving a lookup table the hard disk is also accessed

The 8086 was limited to 640k, a 286 could actually do 16MB with paging.

Is the problem simply the ram limit on the 8086? Is that why assets have to be reloaded off disk constantly?

Couldn’t a 286 with enough memory handle it (if you were emulating that processor)?

I’m curious what the issue is.

[Narishma]

Even an 8088 could use more than 640kB through paging with EMS add-on cards. A 286 doesn't even require paging to use up to 16MB.

[temporallobe]

But wasn’t Doom originally developed for “16-bit DOS computers”? That’s the way I originally played it, by installing it from 3.5” floppies as a DOS program on my Windows 3.11 PC, although it was a 486/33 IIRC. I could play the entire game, save my progress, and I had sound via SoundBlaster. In fact, I even installed Doom II on that same computer.

[sjm-lbm]

Doom used a DOS 32 bit extender called DOS/4GW: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DOS/4G.

[pavlov]

The 486 is a 32-bit CPU, like the 386 before it. Doom’s official minimum system requirement was a 486/66MHz.

[jezze]

One thing I remember was that DOOM did not run well on the 486SX. You needed the 486DX which had an FPU. Maybe there was a 486DX with 33mhz but most were 66mhz I think?

[nxobject]

I thought it was originally developed on 32-bit 68k NeXT workstations, no? I would be interested if there was anywhere to learn how the porting to x86 went, especially with regards to different strategies for block transfers/etc.

[ArtWomb]

How can multi-player be ported to https://dos.zone/ ? WebUDP ??

[extraduder_ire]

According to another comment, this is based on GBA doom. Dos.zone seems to already support multiplayer, so it should be as simple as implementing (probably copying in) the multiplayer part to replace the link cable functionality.

[gabereiser]

My first computer was an IBM 486DX@33Mhz. My father had an Apple Macintosh Quatra (Ferrari) and I had this IBM (hooptie). I remember vividly trying to get DOOM to run on it. It would but at 6fps. With the turbo switch on, 66Mhz, I got 12fps on low settings.

My father and I tried everything we could to overclock that IBM into 133Mhz but the CPU was holding it back. Later that year, he bought Marathon by Bungie (precursor to Halo) for me on his Mac. I think he felt bad that I was so disappointed. I loved it. He saw this and for Christmas that year, I had a new motherboard with a new Pentium chip capable of ripping Martian marine mutant faces.

[gattilorenz]

> My first computer was an IBM 486DX@33Mhz. > With the turbo switch on, 66Mhz

That’s not how a turbo button works, it doesn’t make the pc “go faster” [1] :)

Either you had a 486@66Mhz, or you set your multiplier to 2x instead of just pressing the turbo button.

[1] I mean, you could by default power your pc with turbo in “slow mode”, and activate it for hyperspeed, but you’re still using a 66Mhz CPU that is being normally slowed down

[gravitronic]

Sweet, I can run it on my new book 8088 laptop

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005534146618.html

[aidenn0]

I can't easily tell; does it still require VGA or MCGA to run?

[molticrystal]

While i haven't tried it, there is code that sets it to mode 0x13 [0][1] so it would be VGA.

[0] https://github.com/FrenkelS/Doom8088/blob/2001f8c2576a2e99f3...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mode_13h?useskin=vector

[iguessthislldo]

I was wondering that as well since Wolfenstein got a CGA port: https://github.com/jhhoward/WolfensteinCGA

The CGA mode is playable, but pretty bad looking as would be expected. It looks much better with the Tandy graphics mode enabled. It'd be cool to be able to run Doom on my Tandy 1000 as well.

[chrisco255]

Does anyone know of any compact Doom wasm examples? Looking for the tiniest Doom that could run in a web browser.

[jonny_eh]

> It's based on GBADoom

I wonder why. The GBA has a 32-bit ARM processor.

[monocasa]

Probably better matches the makeup of RAM and processor speed. The GBA only has 384KB and runs at 12.5MHz.

[speps]

Not all projects have #defines for pointer and type sizes, or hardcode values for these sprinkled through the code. So probably to port to GBA they had to go through the code and fix these. Now this specific codebase of Doom is better suited for other ports as well.

[rocky1138]

I took this to mean the assets rather than the code.

[agentdrek]

Doom will soon have been ported to more hardware than NetBSD!

[johnklos]

It's interesting that a not very optimized port of DOOM was available for m68k Macs where DOOM runs at an almost playable framerate on a Mac LC or LC II with 15 MHz m68020 or m68030 on a 16 bit memory bus. It's worlds faster than DOOM on a 24 MHz 80286.

[idonotknowwhy]

Doom ran on the 16 bit SNES console

[fb03]

But it needed an additional coprocessor to do it, which shipped within the cartridge (Super FX 2)

[CaesarA]

Maybe I am missing something but are all the wall textures replaced by the door texture?

[gibb0n]

Finally

[hypercube33]

I see these cool or potentially cool projects posted once a week here without screenshots or even documentation sometimes. I too do not understand.

[jylam]

For everyone here, this quote is not a quote. CamperBob2 just wanted to bully someone it seems, because they doesn't seem to value neither time or skills over quick entertainment for themselves. Next time, just ignore the post and get your tiktok shot.

[devit]

Well, it's going to look like normal Doom.

[rado]

Yes, it makes no sense