Apple would cannibalize their computer and iPad sales if they were supporting the thin client model like Samsung DeX. See how they already avoid cannibalization of the iPhone business by preventing the iPad to make phone calls. They protect their product lines from each other.
As much as I like to see such a feature, I don’t think Apple will ever give it to us.
Seriously? Your claim is that Apple is afraid being able to make calls on an iPad would cannibalize iPhone sales? You think this is what's preventing people from walking around talking on iPads? Apple prevented calls on iPads so that AT&T would offer a cheaper cellular plan for iPads. Apple completely cannibalized their iPod business with the iPhone. They have proven over and over that they will cannibalize their own product lines.
> They protect their product lines from each other.
Is that the case, though.
Their product lines overlap significantly in several areas. Yes, you cannot use the Phone app in an iPad, but you can do many of the things a Macbook does, and I would argue that many people would be sufficiently served with an iPad and a keyboard, rather than a Macbook.
Pretty much the only other app that you can use with an iPhone but not with an iPad (and neither a Macbook), for technical reasons, is Wallet.
I think that Apple does not offer either of those apps in iPads because they are not believed to be practical, given the form factor.
I agree with you, I used to be a fan of Apple, somehow, at least of the macbook and ipad lines, even if I used linux since I was 12, but then the idea of being dictated what I can or can't do with my stuff, and being used as a mere commercial strategy just made me avoid them, would have loved an ipad used as a flying dev station, even with power limitations, but with at least the ability. I think the HP EliteBook https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c04553487 is a great tool with Linux on it, and since apart from the hardware, the software is free, I can do whatever I want with it
I don't know what DeX is, but if by thin client you mean the computer is somewhere else then I would say that doesn't sound like Apple at all. Apple is the last company that seems to still believe in personal computers on the desk.
> See how they already avoid cannibalization of the iPhone business by preventing the iPad to make phone calls.
I think you're a bit out of touch with Apple's design approach. Giving an ability to make phone calls from iPad, like taking photos from it, was already not ridiculous enough. Also, you'd need to have a bag with yourself all the time to carry that slap size device.
How does the author make the logical leap from "it'll use Type C" to "it'll have Samsung DeX equivalent"?
I think it's too much of a gimmick for Apple to even try, plus Apple is really not known for giving a damn about making their products work well with third-party peripherals.
As much as I want to like things like dex, I always find myself thinking that the real world application isn't really any better than carrying around a laptop.
The article mentions that iPhone Pro and Pro Max will have a Thunderbolt port. A Thunderbolt 4 port means double the speed of USB-C, 40Gbps instead of 20Gbps. There's plenty of powerful and legacy hardware that runs on Thunderbolt, like dual 4k monitors, so basically it's about hooking up an assortment of peripherals to an iPhone via docking stations, hubs or bare Thunderbolt. The only limitation is what you can do with iOS as a desktop OS today, but if/whenever macOS and iOS merge (with the help of Apple silicon I infer), we could see a new shift in portable workstation paradigms from laptop to phone. Even though some of it is possible today it's not there yet. Just like with cameras, books, tv sets, the iPhone won't replace "computers" per-se but has the potential to carve a nice niche in portable workstations.
I would argue their main motivation for keeping iOS separate from MacOS is that it's much more locked down. If they were to try to merge the two, they would either have to give up a sizeable portion of revenue from their app store and advertising monopolies on iOS, or handicap MacOS making it much less competitive with laptops that actually treat you like the owner of your own hardware. But if the EU is successful at tearing down a few more of the iOS garden walls, Apple may start to think convergence is a good idea.
There will almost certainly be some laptops that attempt to charge themselves from the iPhone battery depending on which of the 10 versions of USB-C are being implemented.
Will all the counterfeit usb-c cables also cause a bunch of confusion when features don’t work?
Will plugging in your phone at the airport be less of a risk?
> There will almost certainly be some laptops that attempt to charge themselves from the iPhone battery depending on which of the 10 versions of USB-C are being implemented.
It’s not like there are 100s of phones out there with a USB-C connector we can try this on already? ;)
> which of the 10 versions of USB-C are being implemented
The only charging differences between cables are raising the current limit above the default 3 amps (which is only relevant at 60+ watts). Those differences won't confuse any devices.
> Will all the counterfeit usb-c cables also cause a bunch of confusion when features don’t work?
Only if Apple adds MFi-style DRM like they did with Lightning. Otherwise, the only real "features" that could possibly break is data/charging, which is a problem on most serial cables (including Lightning).
Legit concerns. But for what % of Apple iPhone owners do they apply?
For the majority of uses a majority of the time a standard connector is better than non-standard one. Let's just pop the champagne, toast the win, and move on.
B.S. If this was going to happen, why didn't it already happen a decade+ ago on the overwhelming-dominant mobile platform, Android? Especially given that the technology existed in a complete, commercially-available consumer platform no later than 2011? https://www.cnet.com/reviews/motorola-laptop-dock-review/
> The idea of a pocketable thin client model of computing where you basically take your PC with you wherever you go, and plug it into accessories including displays and input devices that can work with any wherever you need, has been around for a long time. But an iPhone 15 sporting a full-featured USB-C port with the capabilities of the latest Thunderbolt spec has no technical barriers toward making it actually happen.
So in theory someone can make an iPad sized touchscreen that connects to your iPhone via USB-C and you'd have no need for an iPad? Or course such a screen could be shared within a household, etc.
Desktop in my pocket would be fan-fn-tastic, obviously. But even a simple larger (than my phone) touchscreen would be a handy step forward.
> So in theory someone can make an iPad sized touchscreen that connects to your iPhone via USB-C and you'd have no need for an iPad? Or course such a screen could be shared within a household, etc.
I have a non touch screen monitor similar to this - power and video over a single USB C port. It works with both my personal Macbook and my work Windows computer.
I have been covering similar features for 10 years now.
While everyone somehow cheers hard about them on paper, in practice their usage is non-existent.
Convergence is not gonna happen, users do not seem interested at all in this type of crossover use-case.
Samsung and Motorola’s solution have been around for a while and they’re a testament to that.
Lenovo now has even a feature that lets you have access to a Windows 11 Cloud PC via ThinkPhone if you’re a business or corporate user.
The use case scenario is there, but apparently it’s just not as compelling to actual users as it seems made out to be.
That’s why Apple is not gonna allow anything like that to happen on an iPhone.
Odd, because Apples already implemented a thin client on iPhones, it’s called CarPlay. It can work over usb or Wi-Fi.
Otherwise I don’t see apple ever allowing a device to be a one stop. If they were going for that then it obsoletes stuff like handoff and universal control.
But really, why do people actually want this? If you’re using your phone for work then it’ll probably have to be domain joined. Then at that point your employer has eyes into the one device you use for everything
Apple will take the approach theorized here when it can be done wirelessly. Bring your phone close to a "Magic Monitor" and the desktop experience starts instantly.
The change of plug shape is irrelevant to whether this paradigm shift happens inside Apple, but Apple is better positioned than any other device maker to accomplish it if they focused on it.
>An iPhone that’s able to project something more like iPadOS (or, ideally, but not definitely wishful thinking on my part — macOS) when connected to a screen could easily replace a laptop for probably a significant portion of the population, including for casual computing, and for the work tasks of the bulk of the knowledge workforce.
No, it wouldn't, because you'd need a display and input device(s) at your destination. So then we ended up with these laptop-style shells for Android and Windows Phone devices that supported this model and suddenly you can't use your phone separately while you're in laptop mode. It's easier to just bring a laptop/Chromebook with you.
There's no need for the device's local storage when you're already syncing important documents to the cloud anyway. This is a "cool" solution in search of a problem.
> No, it wouldn't, because you'd need a display and input device(s) at your destination. So then we ended up with these laptop-style shells for Android and Windows Phone devices that supported this model and suddenly you can't use your phone separately while you're in laptop mode. It's easier to just bring a laptop/Chromebook with you.
Maybe for you. For me, I rarely actually use my Macbook Pro in a laptop mode - it's docked at one location or another (but different locations and different Macs, including ones owned by different people). Being able to do that with a phone and not carting around an extra screen and extra keyboard would be pretty nice, as it happens!
> There's no need for the device's local storage when you're already syncing important documents to the cloud anyway
Syncing to the cloud is a pain, requires an internet connection, etc. If I could just carry everything around on a personal device and leave the cloud as backup only I would love that.
The problem is having too many devices. Most people should just need a phone that can also serve as a personal computer. A personal laptop is a hassle, remember we already have a work computer provided by our employers
As a computer enthusiast I don’t want a desktop in my pocket. I want big heavy rigs, that simply have to be big to do the kind of computing I want to do. I’m not looking for a thin client.
As another computer enthusiast, why not both? I have a pretty beefy rig, but I’d also like to leverage the full compute on my iphone/ipad. If the software wasn’t locked down, the hardware would be more than competitive with the laptop my job provides me. And having an ipad as a full compute device would have been perfect for my university days; the small programming assignments I had would have been perfect to develop on that form factor (ipad + small bluetooth keyboard, together thinner than most laptops).
I believe that with the iPhone 15 adopting USB-C, it will pave the way for a more streamlined integration of USB-C power adapters across almost all electronic categories. The shift towards USB-C as the go-to power and data connector for a plethora of electronic devices has been on the rise in recent years.
We will have one cable for so many things. Finally....
Lightweight and durable. That’s why people love titanium. You wanna make a big rectangle that is super thin and costs thousands of dollars and you’re gonna have to concern yourself with frame flex. The original XL iPhones had a bending problem. Whatever structural member they eventually designed in to solve that, it’s going to be some amount of thinner, lighter, stronger when made with titanium.
As far as wasteful - sort of. Titanium metal isn’t particularly rare, it’s just bound up in ore that takes an extremely energy intensive process to convert to usable material. That’s the Kroll method, invented 80 years ago to refine titanium. There’s actually a new process called the Armstrong method which is way simpler and less capital and energy intensive. In a very real sense, Apple investing in titanium is exactly what we need to push down the cost of refining and fabricating with the metal.
Aluminum used to be more precious than gold, and then 150 years ago scientists figured out how to cheaply refine aluminum. Now we use aluminum for everything from cheap bottle openers and bike frames to disposable containers and Martian rover parts.
I learned about all of the above over the last 10 years as an engineering nerd. I’ve long been awaiting the day when the Armstrong process is the norm and titanium costs are super low. However that process creates powder, so this might also require low cost titanium 3D printers. All I know is investment can bring down these costs, and I’m glad to see apple doing it!
Bonus: these department of energy videos on the comically complex Kroll process[1] and the super simple Armstrong process[2]:
I hope the EU presses Apple to adopt other standards as well. (e.g., file format. It's ridiculous that you can't just drag and drop a picture from your photos library as a Gmail attachment because the format would be HEIC).
I think the USB-C cable will make little to no difference for the majority of Apple users out there. I hate how the EU has coerced Apple to make this change.
dang|2 years ago
iPhone 15 and iPhone 15 Plus - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37485290
rffn|2 years ago
As much as I like to see such a feature, I don’t think Apple will ever give it to us.
bgoggin|2 years ago
manuelabeledo|2 years ago
Is that the case, though.
Their product lines overlap significantly in several areas. Yes, you cannot use the Phone app in an iPad, but you can do many of the things a Macbook does, and I would argue that many people would be sufficiently served with an iPad and a keyboard, rather than a Macbook.
Pretty much the only other app that you can use with an iPhone but not with an iPad (and neither a Macbook), for technical reasons, is Wallet.
I think that Apple does not offer either of those apps in iPads because they are not believed to be practical, given the form factor.
NietTim|2 years ago
lnxg33k1|2 years ago
criddell|2 years ago
mandeepj|2 years ago
I think you're a bit out of touch with Apple's design approach. Giving an ability to make phone calls from iPad, like taking photos from it, was already not ridiculous enough. Also, you'd need to have a bag with yourself all the time to carry that slap size device.
kalleboo|2 years ago
whynotminot|2 years ago
Weird take.
Eddy_Viscosity2|2 years ago
Spooky23|2 years ago
IggleSniggle|2 years ago
input_sh|2 years ago
I think it's too much of a gimmick for Apple to even try, plus Apple is really not known for giving a damn about making their products work well with third-party peripherals.
unknown|2 years ago
[deleted]
_ea1k|2 years ago
ojosilva|2 years ago
akasakahakada|2 years ago
[deleted]
yellow_lead|2 years ago
BrentOzar|2 years ago
They didn’t. They waited until the EU made them switch to USB-C.
abhinavk|2 years ago
bloppe|2 years ago
mensetmanusman|2 years ago
There will almost certainly be some laptops that attempt to charge themselves from the iPhone battery depending on which of the 10 versions of USB-C are being implemented.
Will all the counterfeit usb-c cables also cause a bunch of confusion when features don’t work?
Will plugging in your phone at the airport be less of a risk?
josteink|2 years ago
It’s not like there are 100s of phones out there with a USB-C connector we can try this on already? ;)
bearjaws|2 years ago
Dylan16807|2 years ago
The only charging differences between cables are raising the current limit above the default 3 amps (which is only relevant at 60+ watts). Those differences won't confuse any devices.
smoldesu|2 years ago
Only if Apple adds MFi-style DRM like they did with Lightning. Otherwise, the only real "features" that could possibly break is data/charging, which is a problem on most serial cables (including Lightning).
chiefalchemist|2 years ago
For the majority of uses a majority of the time a standard connector is better than non-standard one. Let's just pop the champagne, toast the win, and move on.
theodric|2 years ago
antirez|2 years ago
PrimeMcFly|2 years ago
The strangest thing has been all the people whining and claiming this stifles innovation. It doesn't.
scarface_74|2 years ago
chiefalchemist|2 years ago
So in theory someone can make an iPad sized touchscreen that connects to your iPhone via USB-C and you'd have no need for an iPad? Or course such a screen could be shared within a household, etc.
Desktop in my pocket would be fan-fn-tastic, obviously. But even a simple larger (than my phone) touchscreen would be a handy step forward.
scarface_74|2 years ago
I have a non touch screen monitor similar to this - power and video over a single USB C port. It works with both my personal Macbook and my work Windows computer.
It should work with an iPad Pro with USB C.
https://a.co/d/2D0bbh5
camillomiller|2 years ago
nocsi|2 years ago
Otherwise I don’t see apple ever allowing a device to be a one stop. If they were going for that then it obsoletes stuff like handoff and universal control.
But really, why do people actually want this? If you’re using your phone for work then it’ll probably have to be domain joined. Then at that point your employer has eyes into the one device you use for everything
ballenf|2 years ago
The change of plug shape is irrelevant to whether this paradigm shift happens inside Apple, but Apple is better positioned than any other device maker to accomplish it if they focused on it.
layer8|2 years ago
dirtsoc|2 years ago
tapoxi|2 years ago
No, it wouldn't, because you'd need a display and input device(s) at your destination. So then we ended up with these laptop-style shells for Android and Windows Phone devices that supported this model and suddenly you can't use your phone separately while you're in laptop mode. It's easier to just bring a laptop/Chromebook with you.
There's no need for the device's local storage when you're already syncing important documents to the cloud anyway. This is a "cool" solution in search of a problem.
eropple|2 years ago
Maybe for you. For me, I rarely actually use my Macbook Pro in a laptop mode - it's docked at one location or another (but different locations and different Macs, including ones owned by different people). Being able to do that with a phone and not carting around an extra screen and extra keyboard would be pretty nice, as it happens!
nicoburns|2 years ago
Syncing to the cloud is a pain, requires an internet connection, etc. If I could just carry everything around on a personal device and leave the cloud as backup only I would love that.
nsonha|2 years ago
xwdv|2 years ago
Firaxus|2 years ago
sahin|2 years ago
We will have one cable for so many things. Finally....
rich_sasha|2 years ago
I mean, yes, hard, shiny, expensive... but just seems so wasteful.
TaylorAlexander|2 years ago
As far as wasteful - sort of. Titanium metal isn’t particularly rare, it’s just bound up in ore that takes an extremely energy intensive process to convert to usable material. That’s the Kroll method, invented 80 years ago to refine titanium. There’s actually a new process called the Armstrong method which is way simpler and less capital and energy intensive. In a very real sense, Apple investing in titanium is exactly what we need to push down the cost of refining and fabricating with the metal.
Aluminum used to be more precious than gold, and then 150 years ago scientists figured out how to cheaply refine aluminum. Now we use aluminum for everything from cheap bottle openers and bike frames to disposable containers and Martian rover parts.
I learned about all of the above over the last 10 years as an engineering nerd. I’ve long been awaiting the day when the Armstrong process is the norm and titanium costs are super low. However that process creates powder, so this might also require low cost titanium 3D printers. All I know is investment can bring down these costs, and I’m glad to see apple doing it!
Bonus: these department of energy videos on the comically complex Kroll process[1] and the super simple Armstrong process[2]:
[1] https://youtu.be/oWyrzZh3We0?si=OdRTu6crob-PVkLJ
[2] https://youtu.be/73HLzYuIfx0?si=dRwfraPivcKyCA6U
behnamoh|2 years ago
Firaxus|2 years ago
Just checked - it’s under “camera - formats - most compatible”.
matt3210|2 years ago
jvm___|2 years ago
dist-epoch|2 years ago
livinglist|2 years ago
kalupa|2 years ago
gareth_untether|2 years ago
msie|2 years ago
rideontime|2 years ago