This IDE doesn't seem to differ from CLion with Rust plugin. I guess, its only about making Rust plugin paid from their side – which makes sense from their side. I hope they can deliver quality.
On the other hand, they are notoriously slow to develop their IDEs. Features are super slow to be delivered, IDEs themselves are not really improved as well. They are focusing on things most don't care: Spaces, new UI project, etc. Barely any performance improvements, customisation is hard, Ruby, Scala and other plugins are lacking as well. Scala showing red squiggly lines where its not supposed to (on their compiler), Ruby lacking ergonomics in refactoring department (refactoring too large scope and etc.) or tooling support.
I still pay Jetbrains and while 2015 they were above everything else – its no longer the case. I grew up with them as developer, I hope they can up their game.
> On the other hand, they are notoriously slow to develop their IDEs.
I found that IntelliJ IDEs for me are almost at the perfection level. I don't really need any new changes, except for simple incremental ones like supporting new languages.
I've been using IntelliJ since 2003, and it's amazing how little my main workflows have changed since then.
That's how all their IDEs work. It's all the same software with different sets of allowed plugins.
I would also argue that their IDEs are largely mature, feature-complete software. I'm quite happy they haven't succumbed to the modern trend of reorganize all the menus every 6 months.
When Goland launched it wasn't that much different from IntelliJ IDEA with the Go plugin. In the intervening years it has come to feel like a significantly better product than that combination.
Different product teams work on different plugins/IDEs. Though, it's apparent that the more popular languages (Python/Java/JS/.NET/Go) get more enhancements. Makes sense for Jetbrains though because those languages provide them more revenue with a larger user base.
> Spaces, new UI project
Jetbrains Spaces is Jetbrains branching out into SaaS. The new UI work has been going on since as long as I remember. They're always tweaking the UI, but that's the norm in the industry.
That's pretty much how it's always been. If you want a Jetbrains IDE, IDEA Ultimate is the best choice, because it offers all of the exact same features. The only issue is that, let's say, if you're developing in Python, it will still give you a Javascript-centered UI, and it's really frustrating
On the other other hand, I switched from Visual Studio to Rider and it's embarrasing just how much better Rider is as a .net/C# IDE than the first party IDE. They're already so far ahead of Microsoft that "super slow" still has them doing laps about them.
Neovim plus the Rust treesitter thing is really good. Intellij has work to do before they are worth paying for. Which is great! I love competition. Kotlin is probably my favorite language to program in, but I hate how it locks you in to a single IDE.
for me CLion was the revelation, and really I couldn't deliver my project if I didn't obtain it (sadly from my pocket, due to some strange software request process). It both sped up and improved my work, delivering thorough analysis of code through the lint.
However they already told in plain text that the Rust plugin will be stopped at this point of time, so this is another quite expensive (for me) tool to buy if you'd like to develop home projects or learn at home
The only thing I think I’d even want changed with PyCharm is better Copilot integration and time-travel debugging. Other than that I’d actually prefer that it doesnt change.
Long ago, perhaps ten or more years, I used IntelliJ. It is a good IDE. Then last year I tried CLion with the Rust plugin. Still good. Not everything is smooth but that's not their fault. One example: it is frustrating to display values even if they implement Debug. The problem is that the debugger did not yet understand Rust's Debug. I was satisfied anyway.
After a year I didn't extend the license, however.
You see, I am mostly retired and program just for fun. And CLion does not do enough because I also write TypeScript, PHP, shell scripts, and even C sometimes. CLion is good for C, but now, I don't know if RustRover will cover C.
Now I switched to helix. Thirty years ago I learnt Emacs and later jed. You could say I am the pinky finger guy. In my fifties I decided to try something completely different, a modal editor. It took more than a year to slowly learn tricks. If programming were my job I wouldn't do that. I would stick to vscode or just Visual Studio or to a JetBrains product, because I know them and can work efficiently. With helix I did not yet reach this efficiency. But being retired it is more about fun instead of efficiency. helix is just more fun than these corporate offerings. Last week I switched Caps Lock and Esc and even created tap keybindings for the modifier keys (right tap-iso = open bracket, right tap-meta = close bracket for example). I am still in the process to adapt to the new keybindings but it makes me smile.
One caveat: when in a browser text input field, I sometimes hit the i key before typing. Anyone know this? I realized, I have to shift the mental model that browser text input fields are alreay and permanently in insert mode.
This said, I have a fond spot for JetBrains even if I left them.
Helix is great! I learned Vim around five years ago, and bounced between it and VSCode for a while. I started using Neovim full-time for work and only moved to VSCode when a plugin upgrade broke my config.
Now, I use Helix too — it's not perfect, lots of quality of life features are missing, but upgrading _one thing_ and having it work correctly is really a pleasure.
Helix is really fun, it's fast, sane default feature set, things work out of the box, though last time I checked they still didn't have plugins (some stuff can be achieved with some shell magic, but still annoying to fallback to that).
Do you by any chance have your hx config open source? Would love to browse it and maybe steal some of your config!
> And CLion does not do enough because I also write TypeScript, PHP, shell scripts, and even C sometimes. CLion is good for C, but now, I don't know if RustRover will cover C.
CLion is the wrong product if you want to work in multiple languages. JetBrains has different IDEs for different purposes. You would want IntelliJ Ultimate and to use plugins for TypeScript, PHP, and even Rust with the plugin: https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/22407-rust
If you only wanted to work in a single language you can get that specific IDE.
You can also buy the all products pack to get everything they offer, which is a great deal.
Whoa, another (ex?) jed user in the wild. I still install it on new servers, and that was how other admins know if I was ever there. Smaller and faster than installing emacs.
While I've always been happy with the VS Code ecosystem, I'd be lying if I said that JetBrains products haven't been a favorite of many developers I've worked with.
Disappointing that the open source plugin is a casualty, but this is probably a net positive for getting Rust into more hands that might need it. Writing Rust with and without IDE help is a night and day experience and having an official, goto, commercially supported product is great news.
I'm fed up with Jetbrains. I gave them money for many years and I loved intelliJ. It was the go-to IDE regardless of your code.
Then they started "simpler" IDEs like PHPStorm, but that was fine because I could supplement my IntelliJ with plugins that would basically give me PHPStorm and the like. IntelliJ remained the go-to tool for the polyglot.
The problem were the bugs. 3-4 years sometimes to fix glaring bugs well reported. Some were unheard.
They also made a big spiel about their millisecond to rendering right about the time where I switched to a 4K screen that rendered the IDE completely dead on its knees. The irony! Turns out Java wasn't so good for IDE in macOS retina displays.
You'd code in windowed mode, fine, you stretched open the IDE to fill the screen and every key stroke would then take seconds to render!!
Then one day, C-Lion.
All the sudden, we need a brand new IDE because you know, C++ is that different. OK fine. I don't plan on writing C++. Still though, felt like a cash grab. Then AppCode, then a plethora of other IDE that just feel like cheap IntelliJ-light opportunity to make money.
So I moved to VSCode, grudgingly. Had enough of unanswered bugs, poor performance and focus on everything else but the product that got them there.
VSCode is kinda great. But it's a perfect example of how much Microsoft could strap rockets to pig and make it fly. It's fast. You couldn't write a editor that fast using that technology.
But still VScode irks me with the MSFT part and the future enshitifcation that is all but inevitable.
Recently I found Zed [1]. Zed is what I wanted VSCode to be, and I highly recommended. Sadly it's still lacking in many languages like PHP but I hope one day they get there, because it's absolutely stellar.
I believe it's written in Rust and supports Rust really well. Give it a go. I can't tell if they'll be around in 5 years but I sure damn hope so.
So I'm sorry but I fell out of love with Jetbrains. And you might thing this is a cheap shot but I gave them well over a thousand dollars.
I don't have problems with bugs as often as I would expect considering the complexity of the IDE ! I'd say it's much better than Visual Studio which is directly comparable.
But there are many annoying issues open for a long time, two I'm struggling with currently :
- integrated terminal rendering performance is atrocious (and I hit this all the time since I use CLI a lot in my workflow)
- remote editing is a false promise feature - it's been there for a year but it's not even close to usable - this is a big deal for me as well and VS code is immeasurably better in this regard
I did a lot of C# recently and (ironically) VS code is terrible for this kind of language, Rider > Visual Studio.
I'm doing some Python now and PyCharm is just barely edging the VS Code. The remote experience is just not comparable and the terminal rendering performance is PITA.
If I was doing TS I wouldn't even bother with IntelliJ.
I don't understand why new editors like Zed go through the effort to create an incomplete Vim plugin, when NeoVim can act as backend for other programs which automatically includes one's entire configuration and plugins.
I paid JetBrains 3 years up-front for a license to their products. Thank heavens I paid for the full suite and not just CLion or I’d be stuck using CLion with the Rust plug-in which will become unmaintained.
Looking forward to install RustRover. Hopefully it will bring even better integration with Rust than using CLion with Rust plug-in. And CLion with Rust plug-in is already very nice :)
Seems kind of "backwards"? Why not put more effort into Fleet so that they can eventually sunset all the language-specific IDEs and have one product to support?
A big part of why I use VSCode over JetBrains stuff is that I only have to deal with one application for all my things.
IntelliJ (and I assume Fleet?) is an all encompassing IDE where all the languages are plugins and can basically do everything the other products can do. The language specific IDEs are mostly skins for the plugins that just rearrange the UI to make it simpler to do specific things. Features may land first in the language/platform specific IDEs
It's presumably partly about market segmentation for pricing purposes. Check the prices of their IDEs - they differ quite considerably. Languages that are mostly used by hobbyists can't have the same price be charged as languages mostly used by big rich companies.
The current clion + rust plugin combo allows me to step seamlessly from rust to cpp when doing ffi work. Hopefully this isn't lost in this new rust only tool.
I am going to give this a shot but I am not sure what's the attraction anymore with Copilot + LSP.
- Auto-completion: However smart it is, it can't beat copilot.
- Type information: LSP can do that. (along with access to docs, error/warning highlighting, etc..)
- Debugger: There isn't a good one (or at least a good one that can be easily configured) for neovim yet. That's something I really miss for my toolbox.
- Cargo.toml: There is already a neovim plugin for that!
- VCS: I don't mind having a separate app for VC. But there isn't a good GUI app for Linux.
So far, it's only two points I am interested in; and only the debugger is the thing that I miss the most. I am wondering if better debugging tools (like LSP) somehow make it to Rust (along with maybe ownership/lifetime LSP like tools), then the market for an IDE becomes null?
> - Auto-completion: However smart it is, it can't beat copilot.
That's news for me!
I write C# in Rider and I'm a copilot subscriber. However if I have to choose between Rider's auto-completion and Copilot, then the choice is painfully obvious.
I already pay a subscription for Pycharm. Would expect this for free. Now vscode is a legitimate alternative to Pycharm they need to sort out their offering.
> Bit of a malicious move, essentially monetizing the contributions of all the people who worked on the plugin while the open source part slowly falls into deprecation and wontfixes. Not cool at all!
I don't use JB IDEs but for the people I know who do, the thing that stops them using VSCode is debugging: I'm curious, does anyone consider VSCode debuggers to be as good as JB or is it just obvious at this point that JB IDEs are superior in that regard?
Tried it and it feels slow. I opened a Rust project and after a long wait to index crates, I opened a file and deleted a commented line. It took a few seconds to display the annotations again.
IMO an IDE shouldn't be tied to a language. in my project, I could have js/html for the frontend, rust for the backend, python/bash for scripts, cmake/cpp for components.
[+] [-] perceptronas|2 years ago|reply
On the other hand, they are notoriously slow to develop their IDEs. Features are super slow to be delivered, IDEs themselves are not really improved as well. They are focusing on things most don't care: Spaces, new UI project, etc. Barely any performance improvements, customisation is hard, Ruby, Scala and other plugins are lacking as well. Scala showing red squiggly lines where its not supposed to (on their compiler), Ruby lacking ergonomics in refactoring department (refactoring too large scope and etc.) or tooling support.
I still pay Jetbrains and while 2015 they were above everything else – its no longer the case. I grew up with them as developer, I hope they can up their game.
[+] [-] cyberax|2 years ago|reply
I found that IntelliJ IDEs for me are almost at the perfection level. I don't really need any new changes, except for simple incremental ones like supporting new languages.
I've been using IntelliJ since 2003, and it's amazing how little my main workflows have changed since then.
[+] [-] TylerE|2 years ago|reply
I would also argue that their IDEs are largely mature, feature-complete software. I'm quite happy they haven't succumbed to the modern trend of reorganize all the menus every 6 months.
[+] [-] badrequest|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] doctorpangloss|2 years ago|reply
It’s incredible to me how many people choose VS Code because of its aesthetics, so it is by all means the right thing to focus on.
[+] [-] kuhsaft|2 years ago|reply
Different product teams work on different plugins/IDEs. Though, it's apparent that the more popular languages (Python/Java/JS/.NET/Go) get more enhancements. Makes sense for Jetbrains though because those languages provide them more revenue with a larger user base.
> Spaces, new UI project
Jetbrains Spaces is Jetbrains branching out into SaaS. The new UI work has been going on since as long as I remember. They're always tweaking the UI, but that's the norm in the industry.
[+] [-] dinckelman|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] madeofpalk|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] phendrenad2|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dncornholio|2 years ago|reply
Slow means stable. I don't understand how people rate software on this. Lot's of updates to a product means to me that the product is faulty.
[+] [-] pkulak|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] p0w3n3d|2 years ago|reply
However they already told in plain text that the Rust plugin will be stopped at this point of time, so this is another quite expensive (for me) tool to buy if you'd like to develop home projects or learn at home
[+] [-] reaperman|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] _nalply|2 years ago|reply
After a year I didn't extend the license, however.
You see, I am mostly retired and program just for fun. And CLion does not do enough because I also write TypeScript, PHP, shell scripts, and even C sometimes. CLion is good for C, but now, I don't know if RustRover will cover C.
Now I switched to helix. Thirty years ago I learnt Emacs and later jed. You could say I am the pinky finger guy. In my fifties I decided to try something completely different, a modal editor. It took more than a year to slowly learn tricks. If programming were my job I wouldn't do that. I would stick to vscode or just Visual Studio or to a JetBrains product, because I know them and can work efficiently. With helix I did not yet reach this efficiency. But being retired it is more about fun instead of efficiency. helix is just more fun than these corporate offerings. Last week I switched Caps Lock and Esc and even created tap keybindings for the modifier keys (right tap-iso = open bracket, right tap-meta = close bracket for example). I am still in the process to adapt to the new keybindings but it makes me smile.
One caveat: when in a browser text input field, I sometimes hit the i key before typing. Anyone know this? I realized, I have to shift the mental model that browser text input fields are alreay and permanently in insert mode.
This said, I have a fond spot for JetBrains even if I left them.
[+] [-] phildenhoff|2 years ago|reply
Now, I use Helix too — it's not perfect, lots of quality of life features are missing, but upgrading _one thing_ and having it work correctly is really a pleasure.
[+] [-] serial_dev|2 years ago|reply
Do you by any chance have your hx config open source? Would love to browse it and maybe steal some of your config!
[+] [-] Aurornis|2 years ago|reply
CLion is the wrong product if you want to work in multiple languages. JetBrains has different IDEs for different purposes. You would want IntelliJ Ultimate and to use plugins for TypeScript, PHP, and even Rust with the plugin: https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/22407-rust
If you only wanted to work in a single language you can get that specific IDE.
You can also buy the all products pack to get everything they offer, which is a great deal.
[+] [-] angch|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lucasyvas|2 years ago|reply
Disappointing that the open source plugin is a casualty, but this is probably a net positive for getting Rust into more hands that might need it. Writing Rust with and without IDE help is a night and day experience and having an official, goto, commercially supported product is great news.
[+] [-] keyle|2 years ago|reply
Then they started "simpler" IDEs like PHPStorm, but that was fine because I could supplement my IntelliJ with plugins that would basically give me PHPStorm and the like. IntelliJ remained the go-to tool for the polyglot.
The problem were the bugs. 3-4 years sometimes to fix glaring bugs well reported. Some were unheard.
They also made a big spiel about their millisecond to rendering right about the time where I switched to a 4K screen that rendered the IDE completely dead on its knees. The irony! Turns out Java wasn't so good for IDE in macOS retina displays.
You'd code in windowed mode, fine, you stretched open the IDE to fill the screen and every key stroke would then take seconds to render!!
Then one day, C-Lion.
All the sudden, we need a brand new IDE because you know, C++ is that different. OK fine. I don't plan on writing C++. Still though, felt like a cash grab. Then AppCode, then a plethora of other IDE that just feel like cheap IntelliJ-light opportunity to make money.
So I moved to VSCode, grudgingly. Had enough of unanswered bugs, poor performance and focus on everything else but the product that got them there.
VSCode is kinda great. But it's a perfect example of how much Microsoft could strap rockets to pig and make it fly. It's fast. You couldn't write a editor that fast using that technology.
But still VScode irks me with the MSFT part and the future enshitifcation that is all but inevitable.
Recently I found Zed [1]. Zed is what I wanted VSCode to be, and I highly recommended. Sadly it's still lacking in many languages like PHP but I hope one day they get there, because it's absolutely stellar.
I believe it's written in Rust and supports Rust really well. Give it a go. I can't tell if they'll be around in 5 years but I sure damn hope so.
So I'm sorry but I fell out of love with Jetbrains. And you might thing this is a cheap shot but I gave them well over a thousand dollars.
[1] https://zed.dev
[+] [-] moonchrome|2 years ago|reply
But there are many annoying issues open for a long time, two I'm struggling with currently :
- integrated terminal rendering performance is atrocious (and I hit this all the time since I use CLI a lot in my workflow)
- remote editing is a false promise feature - it's been there for a year but it's not even close to usable - this is a big deal for me as well and VS code is immeasurably better in this regard
I did a lot of C# recently and (ironically) VS code is terrible for this kind of language, Rider > Visual Studio.
I'm doing some Python now and PyCharm is just barely edging the VS Code. The remote experience is just not comparable and the terminal rendering performance is PITA.
If I was doing TS I wouldn't even bother with IntelliJ.
[+] [-] alpaca128|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gameoverhumans|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] GiorgioG|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] codetrotter|2 years ago|reply
Looking forward to install RustRover. Hopefully it will bring even better integration with Rust than using CLion with Rust plug-in. And CLion with Rust plug-in is already very nice :)
[+] [-] uoaei|2 years ago|reply
https://blog.jetbrains.com/rust/2023/09/13/introducing-rustr...
[+] [-] catlover76|2 years ago|reply
A big part of why I use VSCode over JetBrains stuff is that I only have to deal with one application for all my things.
[+] [-] Larrikin|2 years ago|reply
IntelliJ (and I assume Fleet?) is an all encompassing IDE where all the languages are plugins and can basically do everything the other products can do. The language specific IDEs are mostly skins for the plugins that just rearrange the UI to make it simpler to do specific things. Features may land first in the language/platform specific IDEs
[+] [-] mike_hearn|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] catch2222|2 years ago|reply
The current clion + rust plugin combo allows me to step seamlessly from rust to cpp when doing ffi work. Hopefully this isn't lost in this new rust only tool.
[+] [-] takeda|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 7e|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] csomar|2 years ago|reply
- Auto-completion: However smart it is, it can't beat copilot.
- Type information: LSP can do that. (along with access to docs, error/warning highlighting, etc..)
- Debugger: There isn't a good one (or at least a good one that can be easily configured) for neovim yet. That's something I really miss for my toolbox.
- Cargo.toml: There is already a neovim plugin for that!
- VCS: I don't mind having a separate app for VC. But there isn't a good GUI app for Linux.
So far, it's only two points I am interested in; and only the debugger is the thing that I miss the most. I am wondering if better debugging tools (like LSP) somehow make it to Rust (along with maybe ownership/lifetime LSP like tools), then the market for an IDE becomes null?
[+] [-] raincole|2 years ago|reply
That's news for me!
I write C# in Rider and I'm a copilot subscriber. However if I have to choose between Rider's auto-completion and Copilot, then the choice is painfully obvious.
[+] [-] bibabaloo|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|2 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] adamzochowski|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Nullabillity|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] epinephrinios|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jwmoz|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] benj111|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] microtonal|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] james_in_the_uk|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lukaqq|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] notsahil|2 years ago|reply
Quoting MRandl comment from the blog:
> Bit of a malicious move, essentially monetizing the contributions of all the people who worked on the plugin while the open source part slowly falls into deprecation and wontfixes. Not cool at all!
[+] [-] da39a3ee|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rugina|2 years ago|reply
While waiting, I did some work in neovim.
[+] [-] billconan|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] methou|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gbin|2 years ago|reply