So a similar thing happened near some friends' in France. A military jet crashed into the forest near their house, but the air force couldn't figure out where it had gone. Eventually a farmer noticed that a new pond had appeared on his land. The jet made enough of a crater when crashing that drained the nearby swamp and created a new pond deep enough to conceal the full fuselage, thus completely hiding the airplane. Once the farmer alerted the air force, they were able to crane the remains out of the newly formed pond and recover the key parts of hardware onboard. Had the farmer not noticed the change in landscape they might have never found it. https://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2011/03/02/97001-20110302...
I wonder if some of the "autopilot" functionality for military aircraft is to swan-dive into water/forest if everyone has already ejected.
If it's going to crash (and can't autoland, which it probably shouldn't attempt even if it could if something ejection-worthy happened), might as well obliterate the thing in a safe place.
It's relevant to note that the aircraft disappeared from radar in the evening while doing "low altitude exercises" and was discovered the next morning (bad weather preventing the rescue teams from finding it earlier).
The linked article mentions that the pilot and navigator were considered missing. Other news reported also the presence of human remains near the crash site.
From the satellite images of the area, you have several urban areas with large swaths of farmland and some forest around them. One of the lakes is a dammed river. The flood plains downriver from the dam are quite lush. It’s in a field, under a tree, or in a pond it dug itself if the water table is high right now.
Jesus, imagine the thrill, that you have a full blown airplane in your backyard. Going out during the nights and sleep next to it, sit in the cockpit, whatever.
An 80's movie dream is playing out for some rural kids, where they stumble upon a smouldering high-tech wreckage and as they explore it, men in suits pour out of black SUVs and talk to them in taciturn ways.
Seriously though, these jets sound terribly overpriced for how unreliable they seem to be.
I'm no expert on aircraft procurement or government contracts (I'm an engineer who used to work on fighter jets) - that being said, it's my understanding that the F-35 is actually a very successful project, and a very affordable one at that. I haven't got any citations or evidence to present, I could be wrong about all of this, it's a topic I've got only casual knowledge about.
A broad overview of my understanding of the situation: Most critics are making unfair comparisons (e.g. criticizing the F-35 for its inability to dogfight, or comparing its cost to 4th generation fighters, rather than its 5th generation peers)
This argument is further complicated by (as I understand it) a general lack of knowledge in the west concerning the true cost of Russian and Chinese 5th generation fighters (PAK FA and Su-57)
All of that being said, I think this is a heavily politicized topic, and I can never discount the possibility that I've been hoodwinked when it comes to such matters.
To determine that this crash is evidence of unreliability would require you to have detailed knowledge of the operational and training volume and tempo they’re flying with - in comparison to other aircraft and their comparative failure rate.
Fighter jets in general are a constant maintenance marathon. They are pushing the edge of engineering and performance. That means that they are less reliable and more expensive to maintain than a 777 by a wide margin. However, the F-35 is significantly more reliable than it's predecessor the F-16.
The F-35 represents the result of a changing model for warfare. Less dogfights and missile duels, more managing a fleet of strike drones, loitering ordinance, ECM, and acting as an observability platform. With the advent of extreme long range, datalink guided, air breathing, air to air missiles, BVR is transitioning to over the horizon combat. I see you, I kill you. F-35 is a reaction to that.
> The "Cornfield Bomber" is the nickname given to a Convair F-106 Delta Dart, operated by the 71st Fighter-Interceptor Squadron of the United States Air Force. In 1970, during a training exercise, it made an unpiloted landing in a farmer's field in Montana, suffering only minor damage, after the pilot had ejected from the aircraft. The aircraft, recovered and repaired, was returned to service, and is currently on display at the National Museum of the United States Air Force.
Given it's a military plane (which IIRC, aren't required to have transponders or have them activated) and stealth. it seems understandable that it would be hard to find if it didn't crash immediately.
It's not uncommon for jets to fly for long distances after a pilot ejects. In one incident I responded to, the crew of an F4 ejected due to a fire, but the jet continued to fly over about half of Nevada until it eventually crashed near Tohnapah.
stealth aircraft usually fly with radar retroreflectors deployed when not on combat missions so as to prevent adversaries from assessing their cross-section
A B-17 once landed at an airfield in Belgium without any crew on board. Just by chance it was pointing in the right direction, with the right amount of lift and drag and thrust.
I think there were experiments with RC B17s. I wonder if this was one and they chose to emergency land it but had to keep it a secret from the Belgian airfield crew.
When my grandpa was navigating B24's in WWII, he saw a B24's wing flying by itself. The Japanese had set the plane on fire from nose to tail, and the body separated from the wings. The B24 has the wings on top of the fuselage, so the wings could stay together. The body, of course, fell into the clouds below, but the wings stayed aloft. And naturally, because they didn't have to carry a fuselage around, they accelerated, and lazily curved out of sight of grandpa, who thought he might have been the only person to ever see something like that (and survive to tell the tale...)
It may be naive to ask this but... can I get a tail number? I'm not 100% sure these would have one I could look up on flightradar but a national post asking people to help find their plane would be way more useful with a little more info about the actual aircraft. We know it was "Sunday afternoon" over South Carolina somewhere but if we had some "last known location" info or something this might be solvable with some math estimates.
Interesting. The article doesn't say why the pilot ejected. If the jet were able to continue flying for hours in autopilot, maybe the pilot ejected a bit prematurely, no? Though it it continued flying I would expect it to be on ADS-B.
Have they said whether the transponder was active on the jet? They usually have the ADSB beacon live when flying near airports, but if it was turned off it would be a bit trickier to find. Also, if the retroreflector wasn't extended it might be hard for active radar to track it as well. Worst case scenario would be if it was in "full stealth" mode -- that would be the situation where we discover that NORAD air defense systems can't detect our own jets!
What might cause a pilot to need to eject from an airplane that is not in any distress? The pilot apparently had the time to put the airplane into an auto-pilot mode before ejecting. Why not just fly the plane back to base?
I always thought pilots ejected when the plane was about to crash.
Given that the plane costs $150 million, it seems like an extraordinarily expensive decision to make if the plane is not about to crash.
[+] [-] tehf0x|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Scoundreller|2 years ago|reply
If it's going to crash (and can't autoland, which it probably shouldn't attempt even if it could if something ejection-worthy happened), might as well obliterate the thing in a safe place.
[+] [-] Rygian|2 years ago|reply
The linked article mentions that the pilot and navigator were considered missing. Other news reported also the presence of human remains near the crash site.
[+] [-] dolmen|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hinkley|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] iancmceachern|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bitwize|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mortureb|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lofaszvanitt|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] dheera|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] btbuildem|2 years ago|reply
Seriously though, these jets sound terribly overpriced for how unreliable they seem to be.
[+] [-] kunwon1|2 years ago|reply
A broad overview of my understanding of the situation: Most critics are making unfair comparisons (e.g. criticizing the F-35 for its inability to dogfight, or comparing its cost to 4th generation fighters, rather than its 5th generation peers)
This argument is further complicated by (as I understand it) a general lack of knowledge in the west concerning the true cost of Russian and Chinese 5th generation fighters (PAK FA and Su-57)
All of that being said, I think this is a heavily politicized topic, and I can never discount the possibility that I've been hoodwinked when it comes to such matters.
[+] [-] jameshart|2 years ago|reply
To determine that this crash is evidence of unreliability would require you to have detailed knowledge of the operational and training volume and tempo they’re flying with - in comparison to other aircraft and their comparative failure rate.
[+] [-] mensetmanusman|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] foxyv|2 years ago|reply
The F-35 represents the result of a changing model for warfare. Less dogfights and missile duels, more managing a fleet of strike drones, loitering ordinance, ECM, and acting as an observability platform. With the advent of extreme long range, datalink guided, air breathing, air to air missiles, BVR is transitioning to over the horizon combat. I see you, I kill you. F-35 is a reaction to that.
[+] [-] tivert|2 years ago|reply
> The "Cornfield Bomber" is the nickname given to a Convair F-106 Delta Dart, operated by the 71st Fighter-Interceptor Squadron of the United States Air Force. In 1970, during a training exercise, it made an unpiloted landing in a farmer's field in Montana, suffering only minor damage, after the pilot had ejected from the aircraft. The aircraft, recovered and repaired, was returned to service, and is currently on display at the National Museum of the United States Air Force.
Given it's a military plane (which IIRC, aren't required to have transponders or have them activated) and stealth. it seems understandable that it would be hard to find if it didn't crash immediately.
[+] [-] dehrmann|2 years ago|reply
Seems like you'd want them activated in domestic airspace.
[+] [-] tra3|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ceejayoz|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] defrost|2 years ago|reply
If so, there's a limited edition high end wristwatch in it for the pilot:
https://us.bremont.com/pages/explore-bremont-partnerships-ma...
[+] [-] netsharc|2 years ago|reply
https://martin-baker.com/products/mk16-ejection-seat-for-f-3...
[+] [-] z303|2 years ago|reply
https://martin-baker.com/ejection-tie-club/
[+] [-] lbourdages|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] andrewstuart|2 years ago|reply
A worthy chronometer to suit a crashed pilot.
[+] [-] amelius|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] GartzenDeHaes|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] umeshunni|2 years ago|reply
A Soviet MiG-23 flew all the way from Poland to Belgium without its pilot after they ejected from the jet shortly after takeoff back
https://community.infiniteflight.com/t/the-ghost-mig-over-be...
[+] [-] SV_BubbleTime|2 years ago|reply
The F35 is shaped in a way that only flys well with 10-40 thousand pounds of thrust.
I am extremely skeptical a modern fighter jet wpuld coast and set it self down in a field.
[+] [-] lstamour|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] steve1977|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rmbyrro|2 years ago|reply
Considering it is a stealth jet, broadcasting its location through easily detectable radio waves would be a serious bug, not a feature, wouldn't it?
[+] [-] andbberger|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Stevvo|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] 1659447091|2 years ago|reply
> The parachutes were still onboard and no indication of gunfire or blood caused by hostile attacks were seen on the plane.
[1] https://worldwarwings.com/still-unsolved-story-of-b-17-landi...
[+] [-] idontwantthis|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] satiric|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] nthn_g|2 years ago|reply
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Belgium_MiG-23_crash
[+] [-] chankstein38|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] btgeekboy|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] belter|2 years ago|reply
Please no jokes about losing a stealth fighter...
[+] [-] simonswords82|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Slackwise|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] genpfault|2 years ago|reply
Context: [1]
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Thunder#Documents_leaks
[+] [-] dumah|2 years ago|reply
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ValuJet_Flight_592
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1958_Tybee_Island_mid-air_co...
[+] [-] andrewstuart|2 years ago|reply
I have one on my cat and when he runs away he is not hard to find.
[+] [-] tornato7|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yabones|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] tibbydudeza|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MarcScott|2 years ago|reply
Debris found from F-35 jet in South Carolina after US pilot ejected
[+] [-] jononomo|2 years ago|reply
I always thought pilots ejected when the plane was about to crash.
Given that the plane costs $150 million, it seems like an extraordinarily expensive decision to make if the plane is not about to crash.