The traditional Linux-bashing post, which is effectively (to my mind) countered by the traditional response, which is that another indie dev found [1] that most of these issues were not Linux-specific. That is to say, Linux users don't report more bugs because there are a lot of problems running the game specifically on Linux, but because they're accustomed to reporting bugs instead of just ignoring them.
I think this can still be thought of as a "nightmare" for some developers. The mindset may be that the developers don't want users reporting bugs. They'd rather the users passively tolerate the bugs. This way the developers don't need to put in the effort to fix them! These developers may prefer not to support Linux because they simply do not want to deal with sophisticated users.
Not to mention listing "Linux" as a supported platform is about as absurd as saying "Darwin" or "NT". Support Ubuntu LTS and SteamOS, and call it a day.
What this actually shows is that Linux users are more technically proficient and more likely to put in the effort to file a bug report when they encounter a problem.
It doesn't directly figure into the reporting rate, but Linux users also file better bug reports, likely due to the communal education and technical support that is so central to contemporary, personal Linux usage. Any newbie asking questions on a Linux forum, IRC, Matrix, or Discourse is bound to learn strong norms about including diagnostic info and other context in issue reports, as well as what asking useful questions looks like.
Linux users end up helping to identify a hugely disproportionate number of the bugs that affect Windows users because of this.
This might be bad for you if your company over relies on metrics about the number of reported or open bugs in an unhelpful way. But in itself it's a decidedly good thing for your software quality and the experience of your users to include Linux users in your user community.
But still, this is why you target Proton. It seems "anti linux" and suboptimal, but its actually quite practical.
Whenever I do game on linux, I always use the proton versions anyway because they perform better than the native linux version, with the only exception so far being Minecraft.
Proton is not a silver bullet. Starfield, for example, works with Proton but if you look at ProtonDB you will see that it does not work for many users.
CSGO linux seems to perform better than Proton or natively on Windows as well. In the past Linux version had an issue of not having useful anticheat but these days they seem to be able to detect cheats on Linux as well.
So? Don't address issues coming from Linux reporters if you think it's not worth it. But note that those reports may be bugs affecting users from other platforms as well.
I’m curious what the introduction of the steam deck has done to these numbers.
With regards to sales, on the one hand, I expect that the number of players on Linux has spiked by at least an order of magnitude. On the other hand, I expect that the majority of people buying a steam deck are “hardcore” PC gamers who also have a windows desktop somewhere, so it’s hard to attribute game sales to Linux/Steam deck.
In terms of support tickets, somebody mentioned that a developer countered that the tickets they saw were mostly non-Linux specific, and likely the result of a savvier crowd who’s more proactive at reporting bugs. I kind of expect the number of issues per player to go down, both because of the qualitative change in user base and because the deck represents a console-like static target. On the other hand, I expect those support tickets to be a lot less actionable (because they’re coming from less technical users)
Interesting, but also 4 years old. The stats on ProtonDB seem to reflect the majority of games running fine on Linux: https://www.protondb.com/
Also worth noting, the landscape of Linux packaging is much different than it was 4 years ago:
- Flatpak/AppImage allows you to statically-link all dependencies to avoid undefined behavior
- Steam and others can provide basic runtimes with necessary libraries (eg. Steam Linux Runtime)
- Proton, WINE and DXVK work together to map Windows APIs to your specific setup, regardless of your x11/Wayland/PulseAudio/Pipewire configuration
Indeed shipping a native Linux title is no cakewalk, but products like the Steam Deck kinda refute these outdated complaints. You could target Windows-native and probably get 'free' Linux support if you're using a popular engine.
It's worth noting that in 2019 (when the developer originally posted this message), Proton for the consumer was largely an experiment. There wasn't a whizbang portable Linux gaming computer to excite developers to target the platform. DXVK was still in its v1 era and, while quite functional in the Proton prefix, was still in the very early days. Today? Yes, it's fairly easy with minor considerations in library choice to deploy to Linux on Proton, where the majority of your work is ensuring you have good Xinput and virtual keyboard support, barring any client-side anti-cheat considerations.
The older I've gotten, the less patience I've had for tools that take a couple of extra google searches. My time is valuable, and I don't want to be fighting my own tools to do simple things.
I understand that it isn't linux's fault per se , but I would never understand running your personal desktop on Linux for non-ideological reasons.
WSL and WS-Android both exist. They have allowed me to selectively ignore the worst of windows and touch Linux on a needs basis.
I used to root every android device and apply balance mods before starting any game. Now, I just wanna do the thing.
Same here, even WSL brings little to the table to me, other than reducing my costs.
Since VMWare exists and hardware has been fast enough, that the only physical device running GNU/Linux has been my netbook, from the netbook golden age.
As for Android, it is great that it isn't really yet another UNIX clone, rather its own thing, with a managed userspace, we need to move away from a fossilized OS designed for PDP11s.
Depends on how you look at it. Some portion of those tech issues are probably useful, someone took the time to report them.
Also did they specify which distro(s) they support? Dedicated enough QA? Differences are typically not that hard to paper over, mostly a bunch of if-dir-exists, do this, else do that. XDG_* env vars help as well. Proton, flatpak, etc.
Supporting various hardware combinations is already hard enough. The fragmented software stack, constant userland breakage and hostility towards proprietary games, and a userbase of people who except software to be free make Linux not an attractive platform to port games to.
Several comments addressing the likely change in the bug side of the statement over the past 4 years, but I'm also very curious how the Steam Deck has changed the sales side of it. While I doubt it's anywhere close to a majority, my guess is that it's a lot more than 0.8% these days.
[+] [-] NoraCodes|2 years ago|reply
1: https://www.neowin.net/news/linux-gamers-are-way-better-at-f...
[+] [-] chongli|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mhh__|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ramesh31|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] fotcorn|2 years ago|reply
Spoiler: 38% of bug reports from Linux users, 400 in total, but only 3(!) are actually Linux specific.
[+] [-] Supermancho|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] grammers|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pxc|2 years ago|reply
It doesn't directly figure into the reporting rate, but Linux users also file better bug reports, likely due to the communal education and technical support that is so central to contemporary, personal Linux usage. Any newbie asking questions on a Linux forum, IRC, Matrix, or Discourse is bound to learn strong norms about including diagnostic info and other context in issue reports, as well as what asking useful questions looks like.
Linux users end up helping to identify a hugely disproportionate number of the bugs that affect Windows users because of this.
Past HN discussion of another indie dev's experience with this can be found here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28978086
This might be bad for you if your company over relies on metrics about the number of reported or open bugs in an unhelpful way. But in itself it's a decidedly good thing for your software quality and the experience of your users to include Linux users in your user community.
[+] [-] brucethemoose2|2 years ago|reply
But still, this is why you target Proton. It seems "anti linux" and suboptimal, but its actually quite practical.
Whenever I do game on linux, I always use the proton versions anyway because they perform better than the native linux version, with the only exception so far being Minecraft.
[+] [-] sosodev|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] k4rli|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pvg|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|2 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] severino|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pdpi|2 years ago|reply
With regards to sales, on the one hand, I expect that the number of players on Linux has spiked by at least an order of magnitude. On the other hand, I expect that the majority of people buying a steam deck are “hardcore” PC gamers who also have a windows desktop somewhere, so it’s hard to attribute game sales to Linux/Steam deck.
In terms of support tickets, somebody mentioned that a developer countered that the tickets they saw were mostly non-Linux specific, and likely the result of a savvier crowd who’s more proactive at reporting bugs. I kind of expect the number of issues per player to go down, both because of the qualitative change in user base and because the deck represents a console-like static target. On the other hand, I expect those support tickets to be a lot less actionable (because they’re coming from less technical users)
[+] [-] smoldesu|2 years ago|reply
Also worth noting, the landscape of Linux packaging is much different than it was 4 years ago:
- Flatpak/AppImage allows you to statically-link all dependencies to avoid undefined behavior
- Steam and others can provide basic runtimes with necessary libraries (eg. Steam Linux Runtime)
- Proton, WINE and DXVK work together to map Windows APIs to your specific setup, regardless of your x11/Wayland/PulseAudio/Pipewire configuration
Indeed shipping a native Linux title is no cakewalk, but products like the Steam Deck kinda refute these outdated complaints. You could target Windows-native and probably get 'free' Linux support if you're using a popular engine.
[+] [-] belthesar|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] darknavi|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] uberduper|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] PaulHoule|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] SamuelAdams|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] screye|2 years ago|reply
I understand that it isn't linux's fault per se , but I would never understand running your personal desktop on Linux for non-ideological reasons.
WSL and WS-Android both exist. They have allowed me to selectively ignore the worst of windows and touch Linux on a needs basis.
I used to root every android device and apply balance mods before starting any game. Now, I just wanna do the thing.
[+] [-] pjmlp|2 years ago|reply
Since VMWare exists and hardware has been fast enough, that the only physical device running GNU/Linux has been my netbook, from the netbook golden age.
As for Android, it is great that it isn't really yet another UNIX clone, rather its own thing, with a managed userspace, we need to move away from a fossilized OS designed for PDP11s.
[+] [-] mixmastamyk|2 years ago|reply
Also did they specify which distro(s) they support? Dedicated enough QA? Differences are typically not that hard to paper over, mostly a bunch of if-dir-exists, do this, else do that. XDG_* env vars help as well. Proton, flatpak, etc.
[+] [-] charcircuit|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] advisedwang|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Jefrodey|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pjmlp|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MostlyStable|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|2 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] unknown|2 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] scrumlord|2 years ago|reply
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[+] [-] unknown|2 years ago|reply
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