I've followed this matter a little bit as I work in the I.T. industry. I don't live in the UK and have no knowledge of the actors. The government response, including this announcement is shockingly deficient and on the low side of the impact. For a start - it only targets those who were convicted. It does not take into account all actors adversely impacted including falsely accused but not convicted. It doesn't take into account the circumstances of the victims. The government does not at all seem inclined to take any substantive action on this matter other than writing a cheque.
Open question to those in the UK closer to this - How do you see the government's response? What is the public sentiment on the matter. Does anyone have any insight why charges are not being pursued against Post Office Management in light of substantial evidence of wrong doing?
I live in the UK. It's bizarrely barely news. The scale of it is staggering yet the media coverage is small. Well it feels small to me. I don't see any public outrage about this. Part of me thinks it's because it's sort of an institution like the NHS and critisizing it is a no no (though it has been privitized).
I want to see heads roll at the post office. As far as I can remember staff knew about the software issues but covered them up.
Also why wasn't the burden of proof on the software developers to prove to the court it was correct? Can the vendor be held accountable?
And lastly, the bonuses the board have paid themselves for cooperating with the enquirey, that's truly sickening. It's rotten on so many levels. It's money for sending innocent people to prison.
I agree. There are a lot more victims of the Post offices crimes who paid the difference or were fired from their jobs that are not being compensated, the true scale of the problem is much larger than just those convicted.
What astonishes me about this response is that we have clear criminal action by executives in the Post Office, they knew the system was faulty and they still went ahead with the legal cases. These executives have crimes they need to be tried for in court. This is a criminal matter against the staff of the Post office and its just not being dealt with correctly at all. The Post Office should be paying a lot of people accused compensation.
What I can't comprehend is the scale of the failure of the justice system here. Unless I am mistaken there were hundreds of victims over more than a decade. So 700 trials, in which the judges and the juries failed these people. How can such a systemic failure happen? It paints a very poor picture of the justice system in the UK ...
It's because Post Office bosses failed to disclose the facts. This was/is a systematic cover-up. What I don't understand is why the people responsible for this, such as then CEO Paula Vennells, do not face criminal charges.
The thing that confuses me... where did the supposedly lost money go? From my very basic understanding, the computer system said there was a gap in accounting, so it was assumed to be the operator that took it. There must have been millions of £ in "lost" money, but actual accounts couldn't have shown the loss, because there wasn't. Were these convictions purely based on the data from a computer system, with no forensics accounts of the theft or where the proceeds ended up?
My current theory is that the 'justice' system is set up basically to punish a 'criminal' class, often overlapping with the lower class.
The middle and upper class don't really have much interaction, they just fondly imagine that the justice system upholds the values it espouses.
The 'criminal' class aren't so much identified by a fair trial, or evidence, but by what sounds about right.
This system may work well for moving actual criminals through the sausage factory, but falls down spectacularly in cases like this, where the 'obvious' or most likely gut feeling isn't correct.
No news about convicts being let go earlier or a little bit after yet? Some software in the uk is really just good looking bugs that work for the most straight forward use case and nothing else. Difficult to maintain attention to detail when the product management culture is to make changes for the sake of changes.
They did answer my first question after reading the headline...
"The government said the new compensation offer was in addition to paying for all reasonable legal fees, and any post office operator who does not want to accept it can continue with the existing legal process."
Get real, this is the UK, in fact if you follow the progression of some of the key players, they are now manipulating politicians.
So once politicians learn to give the bird to the media headlights, you might start to see this country cleaned up, ironically I think Russell Brand can probably do more to clean up the media and their witch hunts than any member of the Royal Family or Govt.
Fujitsu? I am sure the link is only the company name, but the Japanese government contracted out the ID card deployment largely to them, leading to a catastrophic rollout:
Some were able to do bank related activities as unrelated people because their cards were issued around the same time, and this thing will be our medical insurance ID at the end of 2024
It's high time the UK sorted out the Tories (who caused the whole thing with their "assholery"). They have systematically raped the country of its wealth during the years they were in charge. County councils going bankrupt because Tories deliberately starved Labour run councils of money. Our beautiful NHS going into the shitter because they are starving in preparation for US style health care that will cost billions. This post office scandal is just the tip of the iceberg. You'll see.
A few mentions of Private Eye pushing the story. True, but also worth mentioning The Register and, especially, Computer Weekly who actually broke the story: https://archive.ph/OYJwW
rajandatta|2 years ago
Open question to those in the UK closer to this - How do you see the government's response? What is the public sentiment on the matter. Does anyone have any insight why charges are not being pursued against Post Office Management in light of substantial evidence of wrong doing?
pipes|2 years ago
I want to see heads roll at the post office. As far as I can remember staff knew about the software issues but covered them up. Also why wasn't the burden of proof on the software developers to prove to the court it was correct? Can the vendor be held accountable?
And lastly, the bonuses the board have paid themselves for cooperating with the enquirey, that's truly sickening. It's rotten on so many levels. It's money for sending innocent people to prison.
PaulKeeble|2 years ago
What astonishes me about this response is that we have clear criminal action by executives in the Post Office, they knew the system was faulty and they still went ahead with the legal cases. These executives have crimes they need to be tried for in court. This is a criminal matter against the staff of the Post office and its just not being dealt with correctly at all. The Post Office should be paying a lot of people accused compensation.
thmsths|2 years ago
fauigerzigerk|2 years ago
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jul/18/post-o...
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/apr/23/post-office...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paula_Vennells
Daviey|2 years ago
benj111|2 years ago
The middle and upper class don't really have much interaction, they just fondly imagine that the justice system upholds the values it espouses.
The 'criminal' class aren't so much identified by a fair trial, or evidence, but by what sounds about right.
This system may work well for moving actual criminals through the sausage factory, but falls down spectacularly in cases like this, where the 'obvious' or most likely gut feeling isn't correct.
walthamstow|2 years ago
https://checkout.private-eye.co.uk/singleitem?item=PEY&prom=...
FridayNightTV|2 years ago
Real investigative journalism, holding politicians to account, all whist taking the piss in classic British style.
If Private Eye hadn't investigated this, who would have?
15457345234|2 years ago
gumballindie|2 years ago
tyingq|2 years ago
"The government said the new compensation offer was in addition to paying for all reasonable legal fees, and any post office operator who does not want to accept it can continue with the existing legal process."
gumballindie|2 years ago
edandersen|2 years ago
darkclouds|2 years ago
So once politicians learn to give the bird to the media headlights, you might start to see this country cleaned up, ironically I think Russell Brand can probably do more to clean up the media and their witch hunts than any member of the Royal Family or Govt.
Personally I think £600k is an insult!
justusw|2 years ago
https://www.theregister.com/2023/06/30/fujitsu_japan_micjet_...
Some were able to do bank related activities as unrelated people because their cards were issued around the same time, and this thing will be our medical insurance ID at the end of 2024
mrlonglong|2 years ago
drcongo|2 years ago
kcartlidge|2 years ago