If I, a factory owner, offer optional safety equipment that slows workers down a bit, but I also demand such high productivity that corners have to be cut - whose fault is it when the inevitable happens?
What if I, a factory owner, provide optional basic safety equipment costing $30 per person, but the mask makes the goggles steam up and the boots aren't comfortable? There's better safety equipment available for $300 per person - is it my fault for not buying it?
What if I, a factory owner, happened to start my factory by hiring macho tough guys who don't like wearing a mask, and subsequent hires learn that behaviour from them?
Generally I to listen to the craftspeople I employ on issues of safety because keeping them safe is the whole point of safety. But they and I have a shared responsibility to make sure, if they say the machine is actually safer without the guard, that they're right about that.
In my experience, most of what happens is that workers don't want to wear the gear because it's hot/uncomfortable and they're working really long hours and get tired and sloppy by the end of it.
I actually worked in such a factory, so this is based on direct experience, and what I saw was people cut corners mostly because they were tired after long shifts, though lack of comfort was also a factor due to the heat.
The employer did try to make everyone wear the gear and had inspections and most people wore most of the stuff most of the time, we even won a safety award at one point for going so long without any OSHA-recordable injury. But we weren't perfect and one day I helped bandage a guy who was airlifted after slicing his arm open in a really bad way, something the kevlar wrist protectors should have stopped.
So I would say that employers do try, to the limit they can, but all accidents happen during gaps. And the employees tend to have their own interests in comfort or cutting corners that sometimes conflict with their safety. More limited shifts and attention to comfort might help, but it's not always clear how to provide that.
You can still have things like the guy who got crushed by his forklift after rushing to dump a hopper of trash by doing something really dangerous while unloading it because he wanted to hurry and finish so he could go to his family for Christmas vacation. And it's not easy to stop that kind of thing, even if you do a lot of warnings and inspections to yell at people who don't do things right and pay attention to close calls.
I have had things cut for me and I find myself begging the workers to wear ear pro, eye pro, air pro, and they invariably smile, nod, and work without it. Even if I point out the protective gear sitting near the work area. I too was young once. Now I wear the kit.
You see, in many industries when an employee/contractor doesn't wear protective gear they are walked off site by security because the controlling agent of the property doesn't want OSHA fining them.
There are plenty of people to blame, and there is plenty that can be done. This dumb ass "No regulations needed, free market will take care of itself" is how the rich put the poor or ignorant into early, terrible graves.
This is both a collective action problem (people not using the right gear will be faster and cheaper than those with, meaning bad behavior outcompetes good) and an information asymmetry problem - workers are usually not fully aware of the problems they're creating for themselves.
Also people don't think they care. In high school one kid told me 'I don't want anyone to wipe my butt when i'm old, so I'm going to commit suicide at 50, therefore my smoking isn't going to harm me'. He is now approaching 50, I wonder if he still thinks that, but I haven't seen him since.
Realistically, protective gear (actually protective gear, not thin dust masks) is expensive. The workers cant afford it, and the businesses want to save the money.
There's some small margin of workers who have access to protective gear but don't wear it, but in reality for most workers it's the job of the company to provide it and train workers to use it.
The company is to blame. It's law to wear protective gear in many legal jurisdictions, and that 100% means the company is liable, if it does not actively enforce, and create a "culture of safety".
The point remain here: The workers are the ones choosing to not use the safety gear, in some cases.
I was the safety representative at a previous job. Management care a lot about safety and provided everything required, and high quality gear as well. Still people would cut corners and not use the equipment because it was faster not to. These where people paid by the hour, they have zero incentive to work faster. If people work on contact however, it's easy to create an environment where speed is priorities over safety.
Exactly. In general companies don't like OSHA hanging around. They'd rather run fast and lose even if it costs a finger or two. Enforcement of the law is how get compliance.
I know a bit about the welding industry and and it’s a lack of education, macho attitude, bad habit “I know by smell/touch/sound that it’s going well” and of course management not making it mandatory.
Working with respirator is not the fun part of the day, for sure. And mask/gloves slows you down. But well being able to breathe and see at the end the day without the worst sunburn of your live helps ;)
michaelt|2 years ago
Well, it depends on the situation.
If I, a factory owner, offer optional safety equipment that slows workers down a bit, but I also demand such high productivity that corners have to be cut - whose fault is it when the inevitable happens?
What if I, a factory owner, provide optional basic safety equipment costing $30 per person, but the mask makes the goggles steam up and the boots aren't comfortable? There's better safety equipment available for $300 per person - is it my fault for not buying it?
What if I, a factory owner, happened to start my factory by hiring macho tough guys who don't like wearing a mask, and subsequent hires learn that behaviour from them?
Generally I to listen to the craftspeople I employ on issues of safety because keeping them safe is the whole point of safety. But they and I have a shared responsibility to make sure, if they say the machine is actually safer without the guard, that they're right about that.
Natsu|2 years ago
I actually worked in such a factory, so this is based on direct experience, and what I saw was people cut corners mostly because they were tired after long shifts, though lack of comfort was also a factor due to the heat.
The employer did try to make everyone wear the gear and had inspections and most people wore most of the stuff most of the time, we even won a safety award at one point for going so long without any OSHA-recordable injury. But we weren't perfect and one day I helped bandage a guy who was airlifted after slicing his arm open in a really bad way, something the kevlar wrist protectors should have stopped.
So I would say that employers do try, to the limit they can, but all accidents happen during gaps. And the employees tend to have their own interests in comfort or cutting corners that sometimes conflict with their safety. More limited shifts and attention to comfort might help, but it's not always clear how to provide that.
You can still have things like the guy who got crushed by his forklift after rushing to dump a hopper of trash by doing something really dangerous while unloading it because he wanted to hurry and finish so he could go to his family for Christmas vacation. And it's not easy to stop that kind of thing, even if you do a lot of warnings and inspections to yell at people who don't do things right and pay attention to close calls.
killjoywashere|2 years ago
pixl97|2 years ago
There are plenty of people to blame, and there is plenty that can be done. This dumb ass "No regulations needed, free market will take care of itself" is how the rich put the poor or ignorant into early, terrible graves.
barrkel|2 years ago
bluGill|2 years ago
fzeroracer|2 years ago
There's some small margin of workers who have access to protective gear but don't wear it, but in reality for most workers it's the job of the company to provide it and train workers to use it.
WirelessGigabit|2 years ago
Weirdly enough, that doesn't apply to car mechanics which seem to be dead set on bringing their own tools to work.
aaomidi|2 years ago
You know the when these stores even supply this protective gear, they get the cheapest option that’s still legal.
b112|2 years ago
mrweasel|2 years ago
I was the safety representative at a previous job. Management care a lot about safety and provided everything required, and high quality gear as well. Still people would cut corners and not use the equipment because it was faster not to. These where people paid by the hour, they have zero incentive to work faster. If people work on contact however, it's easy to create an environment where speed is priorities over safety.
pixl97|2 years ago
Arcanum-XIII|2 years ago
will5421|2 years ago
ok123456|2 years ago
lotsofpulp|2 years ago
Objectively, it has a very high utility per dollar. Heat resistant, water resistant, knife resistant, stain resistant, etc.
GartzenDeHaes|2 years ago
nemo44x|2 years ago
lm28469|2 years ago
With that mentality we'd still have 1800s lifespans