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MDMA and the Quest for Connection in a Fractured World

177 points| EA-3167 | 2 years ago |undark.org

140 comments

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[+] empath-nirvana|2 years ago|reply
I literally think that MDMA saved my life. I was absolutely _broken_ when I came out of high school -- bullied at home and at school just relentlessly for 12 years. Completely unable to relate to other human beings, afraid of being touched, never had a girl friend or any kind of real friendship.

Going to rave and having people -- strangers! -- just hug me, and listen to me, and I'd listen to them and we could just talk to each other like normal people without this undercurrent of constant anxiety and fear of rejection. It was a miracle to me. And I mean that in both the banal sense and the religious sense. It wasn't just the interpersonal aspects of it, but like -- having these feelings of joy and happiness and seeing the beauty of the world wash over me in almost an overwhelming way despite the fact that absolutely _nothing_ had really changed about the world made me understand how much of my own unhappiness was internal, that i could _choose_ to see the world in a better light all the time -- not just when I was on drugs, but at any time, it was just a matter of perspective, and something that you have some level of control over.

I went from being someone who was almost completely isolated and withdrawn to learning how to DJ, to DJing at the _very same club_ that opened the world to me. I had a girlfriend within a few months, I had dozens of friends, I had a better paying job within a year, largely through connections I made at the club. I honestly think I'd have just turned into a homeless alcoholic or something without that experience. I have a hard time even imagining where I'd have ended up. I barely recognize the person that walked into that club the first night.

It's a tragedy that this drug isn't available to more people. I overdid it. A lot of people over did it, but 20 years later I don't regret any of it for a moment, even the bad nights.

[+] SeanAnderson|2 years ago|reply
My experiences echo this nearly to a T.

I skipped a few grades in school and became a social outcast. I was hazed out of one school entirely and sort of gave up on understanding people for a while. My first experience on MDMA was like a physical light switch was flicked on inside of my body. I went from only wearing black/white/gray clothes to being the one known to wear loud colors and really putting myself out there visually and socially. I ended up feeling the need to move away from my home town because I felt "too popular." I couldn't go for a run without someone stopping on the side of the street to offer me a ride to wherever. This sort of behavior continued into music festivals where I learned to manage and lead large scale groups of ~strangers in tough environments/confusing mindsets.

I thought these skills wouldn't prove valuable in the work world, but, to my elation and surprise, it was the opposite. A lot of engineers are really smart but a bit weaker on the political and social side of things. I undoubtedly nuked a few brain cells acquiring all these experiences, but hey I can still code just fine and now I love getting in there, talking to people about their feelings and communicating about how I am feeling, and do so with a belief that others are interested in hearing/seeing me.

10/10 would do it all over again.

[+] davidguetta|2 years ago|reply
Really good experience myself here.

The key overall is always to not abuse and that should be adressed by education, not just mindlessly prohibit everything (even tho it's not too bad to forbid stuff somethimes).

[+] pdntspa|2 years ago|reply
I found MDMA similarly eye-opening, dealing with depression and anxiety. It was the first time I truly felt free of anxiety, like it just vanished and I could feel somewhat normal. This was many many years ago, and since then I use these experiences as a sort of guiding star. It's good to take some every now and then to realign and recalibrate with this feeling.
[+] rafaelmn|2 years ago|reply
> I overdid it. A lot of people over did it

Growing up in a poor neighborhood I had friends who were going to parties at like 13/14. MDMA, speed, LSD.

Still good friends with some of them and they are mostly ashamed of that period, and you can see severe permanent effects of abuse on some (again we knew each other since childhood).

I tried what I could get my hands on because I was curious, and I would go out with this crowd occasionally. It's far from roses and rainbows - getting emotionally unstable people riled up - I've seen/heard scary shit.

You can draw parallels to alcohol - drinking can be great for socialisation - and alcohol can ruin people, so I guess you could say it's unfair that one is illegal.

But I don't share the sentiment either way - "I wish alcohol/drugs were available to more people" is not something I'd like to see in practice.

[+] Traubenfuchs|2 years ago|reply
Interesting how experiences can be so different. I have experienced the, technically, happiest moments of my life while on MDMA, but ultimately it changed nothing. Like pretty much any drug, it's temporary, fake, extreme happiness at the cost of your brain permanently melting from using it too much.

I took nothing away from it but increased insight into how unnaturally happy one can be (on drugs) and how incredibly dull, depressing and soul crushing the average work day is.

Would I recommend others trying it? Yes, sure, it's fantastic -you gonna experience happiness on it you CAN NOT get without drugs, that's an interesting experience.

[+] bradlys|2 years ago|reply
How much of this is MDMA and how much of this is just having a welcoming scene where people emphasize physical touch and friendly interaction? How much of this is just living in a society that otherwise doesn’t allow for that in other ways?
[+] cjbgkagh|2 years ago|reply
I'm pretty libertarian when it comes to recreational drugs, but I do worry that we're not exploring the mechanism of these drugs properly when there is polarization to either those seeking prohibition of recreational drugs or those seeking the pleasure from the same drugs. I'm of the opinion that if a root cause of your issues, and mine, could be established an optimized treatment could be determined that maximizes the beneficial outcome and minimizes the detrimental. My root cause is ADHD / dopamine dysregulation and I respond well to medication like Low Dose Naltrexone and Low Dose Modafinil. I think for people with my kind of issues we'd benefit much more from those than from MDMA even if they are much less fun medications to take. It's unfortunate that doctors do a terrible job here so the libertarian part of me is very thankful for the black/grey markets and I benefit from the self experimentation of others, at the same time I think it's incumbent on me to let others know about alternatives to MDMA that I think are worth exploring.
[+] _a_a_a_|2 years ago|reply
In some ways this sounds very similar to my situation (in other ways very different) and it took more than one drug to fix, including prescription antidepressants which took away the appalling, appalling nightmare depression[1] but ultimately it was MDMA that kind of pushed my brain off its rails and onto a new and vastly better track. I'll never have a normal life nor will my siblings but at least it's somewhat tolerable now.

[1] (thanks parents! You pair of evil cunts. At least one of you knew exactly what you were doing, and the other one just watched as it happened in front of you and did nothing)

[+] mfitton|2 years ago|reply
I can really relate to this. Thanks for sharing your story.
[+] dopidopHN|2 years ago|reply
What’s your take on the « next morning » of mdma ?

I find those really depressing and they can completely outweighs the benefit of the night for me.

[+] sibeliuss|2 years ago|reply
I'm so happy for you. I've known a few people with similar stories, including my mother. Before and After.
[+] eagleinparadise|2 years ago|reply
It's too bad as a society we can't embrace psychedelics (yet). Yes, it's super fun and there is potential for abuse.

But we are *missing* out on so much learning... of ourselves, how to improve things in society, on how to heal, and be better humans to each other. Anyone who has experience with psychs knows what I'm trying to say.

I think people become more kind and caring after these kinds of experiences.

It'd be nice to see western culture adapt it's own version "shaman" culture that emphasizes deep exploration of ones self. We're getting closer to this very slowly (more people doing therapy, more interest in wellness, early glimpses of in-person psychedelic "healthcare").

[+] n4r9|2 years ago|reply
My impression is that healing from a deeply traumatic episode is much easier when you feel security, openness, and self-love. MDMA provides a big boost to all of these, and therapists were finding it extremely useful in the ~~1960's~~ [edit] 1970's, so it's not surprising that it's finding its way back to serious consideration after years of being pushed to the underground.

BTW the article is a little US-centric; in the UK it's usually called Mandy or MD ("emdee") rather than Molly.

[+] rachelnuwer|2 years ago|reply
Author of the book that the review article is about here: The book does get deep into the British scene and the pivotal role it's played over the years in terms of culture, science and prohibition. UK is definitely a crucial part of MDMA's story!
[+] sysadm1n|2 years ago|reply
> it's finding its way back to serious consideration after years of being pushed to the underground

It was used in a therapy-like way for all those (underground) years, not strictly for dancing/clubs/house parties. People had informal couples therapy, or trauma therapy where painful memories surfaced and they could be dealt with in a safe space free of inhibitions. Only now it's more formal and the doctors are involved.

[+] brandall10|2 years ago|reply
Agreed. Small correction - it wasn't known to be used in any therapeutic capacity until the late 70s after Alexander Shulgin first synthesized it and exposed it to broader academic circles.
[+] osullivj|2 years ago|reply
UK too; my first dose was in 88, we called it E or Ecstasy then. Never heard it called Mandy in the UK, but then I'm 50+.
[+] jamal-kumar|2 years ago|reply
I read this book written by one of the psychologists who was doing early research into psychedelic therapy when I was a kid called "Thanatos To Eros, 35 Years of Psychedelic Exploration" and it was really interesting. It's still available on maps.org (Although they kind of muntzed the formatting) [1] but the takeaway is that besides MDMA there's a whole range of other substances with a variety of therapeutic merits to explore. MDMA may hit a sort of sweet-spot quality for more people to tolerate it without adverse reaction kind of sweet spot, however I think the substance Stolaroff was most interested in for enhancement of insight was actually very small doses of 2c-e (you can ctrl+f for it in the link), which I think is something we might end up seeing in more scientific investigations as interest grows.

[1] https://maps.org/2014/11/19/thanatos-to-eros-35-years-of-psy...

[+] stranded22|2 years ago|reply
I took various drugs as a teenager but I fell in love with mdma - specifically building a very strong, close nit friendship group with my girlfriend and 2 friends (and another group occasionally).

It helped my girlfriend (now wife) move through some childhood trauma as well as eating disorders too.

Wasn’t so much into clubs - had a few parties in woods which were mind blowing (fire jugglers in fields was a highlight).

Downsides were more that I didn’t put as much time or care into side projects whilst at university- and having to deal with dodgy people to get hold of it.

Zero reasons why it is illegal (class A, no less), but alcohol is fully accepted.

[+] Synaesthesia|2 years ago|reply
MDMA can be incredibly therapeutic when used judiciously and responsibly. It is a remarkable anti-depressant which works very quickly, it can really open you up to exploring difficult issues in your life. It's not without its risks, and it's by no means a panacea. But still, worthy of further study and investigation.
[+] siva7|2 years ago|reply
MDMA changed my life in some ways, for better or worse. It definitely helped in beating some anxiety.
[+] stephenitis|2 years ago|reply
can you describe worse?

A common side effect I've seen with people who use it too often is that it can cause unreasonable expectations of happiness for some people who have difficulty coping with happy moments passing.

[+] flanked-evergl|2 years ago|reply
I'm highly sceptical of the suggestion that if we just all take MDMA the increasingly fractured world will somehow re-unite. I think reading Karl Popper's open society and its enemies will be much more productive, as that will help you understand the reason for the division.

It's as my old pappy used to say, you can't fix problems with more MDMA that wasn't created by a lack of MDMA.

[+] davmre|2 years ago|reply
Before trying MDMA I had mostly written it off as a feel-good drug: an artificial high like cocaine or meth, useful only for escapism. Why bother chasing that sort of experience? But now having tried most of the commonly used psychedelics, I've come to believe that MDMA is the most profound of them all.

MDMA does feel good, of course, but it's not escapist. It’s a deep, wholesome, fundamentally healing sort of goodness. It is unconditional, redeeming love and forgiveness — the core of Christian spirituality. It is the revelation that you really are lovable, even your darkest, hidden parts, and that you are capable of love. Debatably, there is no more profound lesson to be learned about the human condition. It really is magical.

Even so, the experience is surprisingly subtle. It doesn't particularly force positive feelings ("ecstasy" is a total misnomer, IMHO). At first you don't necessarily even notice any effect at all, maybe just a mildly better-than-average mood. But gradually it becomes clear that this subtle sense of well-being is infinitely deep: nothing you might experience can possibly disturb it. All sense of shame and self-judgement, fear of rejection, hang-ups that get in the way of connecting with people --- all dissolve immediately on contact. And from that sense of absolute safety, the capacity to love emerges naturally. The drug doesn't generate it. It just helps you get out of your own way.

I've taken MDMA a few times now just on my own at home (lacking a rave community, although I'm sure that's a fantastic experience also), where it's relatively easy to implement harm reduction measures: stay hydrated, take protective supplements, get a full night's sleep before and after, and wait multiple months between doses (doing all these, I've never experienced a ‘hangover’, just a positive afterglow). I've found the most rewarding results from trying to keep my attention grounded in bodily sensation, gently returning to the body whenever I notice I've become lost in thought. Often, difficult memories or associations will surface of their own accord, sensing that it's safe to do so, and seeing them from a loving perspective can be immensely healing.

I really hope we can eventually find our way to making this experience legally and safely available to everyone who wants it. Yes, MDMA has sharp edges; it's not as physiologically benign as the classic psychedelics, but it's not addictive and it can be used safely. Not everyone has good experiences every time, but compared to the classical psychedelics, it's much more reliably positive. It apparently has some effectiveness as a medicine for specific illnesses like PTSD, but IMHO the real condition it treats is much broader: the universal human condition of feeling more walled off than we'd like to be.

One last galaxy-brain thought: if we ever figure out a way to replicate MDMA's pro-social effects that people could safely use on a day-to-day basis, it might be the most valuable thing we ever invent. One could even see it as the metaphorical second coming of Jesus, his kingdom on earth achieved through purely secular means. How's that for a career goal? :-)

[+] brianmcc|2 years ago|reply
>> It just helps you get out of your own way.

Great way of putting it!

[+] orasis|2 years ago|reply
“I Feel Love” was a fantastic book, written in a very professional journalistic tone. It sits well along side Michael Pollan’s “How to Change Your Mind”.
[+] ngai_aku|2 years ago|reply
I really enjoyed Pollan’s book, so I just placed a hold for “I Feel Love”. Thanks for the recommendation!
[+] MailNerd|2 years ago|reply
Great book, recommended read.
[+] nonrandomstring|2 years ago|reply
Careful selling this shit, Capitalists!

Any drug that heals trauma makes people content and secure.

They won't be addicted to alcohol, tobacco, television, mindless games, or any of the other drugs for sale.

They'll settle for what they have, stop chasing rainbows of wealth and fame.

Now they won't work in your factories 24/7, running an economy that nobody really needs.

They'll stop listening to all the fear-mongering propaganda.

They'll start talking to each other, face to face, bypassing all the apparatus of interpersonal surveillance.

They'll start helping each other, cutting dependency on your mediation.

You can't sell them crap they don't need for money they don't have.

And if they stop living in debt and fear, now you can't control them.

There's a reason we have a "War on drugs".

[+] konfusinomicon|2 years ago|reply
I dunno man, drugs are fun and enlightening and all but they aren't /that/ magical. the war on drugs has only been going on for some decades, societies have been fucked up for millenia. the everyday world would be a lot more colorful, but its gonna take a lot more to reach this nirvana you paint than widespread mdma or other psychedelic use.
[+] dirtybirdnj|2 years ago|reply
+1 for living a life that's not driven by fear

Or at least a pat on the back to those who strive to do this and still keep falling short. Keep going don't give up.

[+] Permit|2 years ago|reply
> They won't be addicted to alcohol, tobacco, television, mindless games, or any of the other drugs for sale.

Do you think you’re underestimating capitalism a little bit here? You can’t imagine a world where pharmaceutical companies over-prescribe MDMA for financial gain?

[+] Euphorbium|2 years ago|reply
The alternative is mushrooms, and that REALLY makes people content and turns people away from capitalism. So they will take what they can.
[+] msla|2 years ago|reply

[deleted]

[+] FredPret|2 years ago|reply
DO NOT SELF-MEDICATE.

I've seen people do this (with this and other drugs) and it can totally break people. I'm glad someone out there is happier than they were now, but it's insanely risky to apply untested foreign chemicals directly into your decision-making apparatus and the seat of your consciousness.

[+] kortex|2 years ago|reply
Maybe if the exogenous medical system didn't suck so bad, there would be less need to self-medicate.

Also, "self-medicate" is such a disparaging term. Humans have been medicating outside of a clinical context for approximately 99% of our existence as Homo sapiens. I'm pretty sure my cat is "self-medicating" when she can't get a hairball up on her own and so she eats some lawn grass and yakks (usually on my couch).

[+] stephenitis|2 years ago|reply
self medicating psilocybin saved my wife several times, it has a 4-5 month effect but it is preferable over SSRIs for her.

If you do self medicate, take every sensible precaution you can, test your drugs, try to be supervised by someone who is educated and knowledgeable, and... if possible see real therapist while your neuroplasticity window is widened.

People get in trouble and other people are able to change their minds in positibe way.

[+] renewiltord|2 years ago|reply
Actually, go ahead and do. Maybe you get serotonin syndrome, maybe you save your life.

We’re an aggregate organism and some of the individuals will always be on the edge of experimentation. It’s just the nature of the thing.

Be yourself. Be free. Some of us will die, some of us will be ruined, but the rest of us will be more informed.

[+] wutwutwat|2 years ago|reply
It's interesting seeing all of the support in this post about MDMA, while methamphetamine has such an ugly stigma associated with it.

Yet folks often don't even realize the "MA" in "MDMA" is in fact, methamphetamine. Meth is just a stimulant, while MDMA is a psychedelic, making you trip. It's weird that the stimulant has such a bad reputation, but not the one that literally will cause you to see and experience things that do not exist, which has that big ole junkie drug meth in it even!

Not defending meth, or any drug for that matter. I'm just pointing out the weird bias we have with things. For some reason meth is an outcask, yet many "acceptable" drugs include meth and people don't even really know that. Take meth to a party and get kicked out or be looked at like a junkie. Take MDMA to a party and you're a hero. Even with drugs, we find a way to create a pecking order

[+] tredre3|2 years ago|reply
> It's interesting seeing all of the support in this post about MDMA, while methamphetamine has such an ugly stigma associated with it.

That's because having similar names does not make them similar in any way. "M D M A" isn't a list of ingredients, it doesn't contain methamphetamine. They have some chemical similarity, but their effects are very different. Once you understand this, you can see that people chastising meth but liking mdma aren't being hypocrites.

[+] ipnon|2 years ago|reply
This is a dangerous analogy because single atom differences in a molecule can change it from a medicine to a poison. While all drugs are not problems in themselves, only in how they are used in individuals and society, it would not be wise to extrapolate from a positive MDMA experience that consuming methamphetamine is a sound course of action.

Do your research folks!

[+] callalex|2 years ago|reply
This is the same old busted argument that people use to describe methylphenidate (Ritalin) as meth and pretend everyone with the mental illness ADHD is just a junkie.
[+] barbs|2 years ago|reply
Whilst your point about lateral violence is valid, your reasoning is ignorant. MDMA might be molecularly similar to meth, they are different drugs with different effects. Also, the term "junkie" is stigmatizing.
[+] rgmerk|2 years ago|reply
That’s a very strange argument.

When was the last time you heard of MDMA-fuelled crime sprees?

[+] renewiltord|2 years ago|reply
It’s weird but Fritz Haber pioneered the use of a chemical weapon that people just casually flavor their food with. Table salt has Chlorine in it, guys!
[+] neuromanser|2 years ago|reply
Having used both: they may be structurally very close, but their effects are vastly different. H2O and H2O2 are just one oxygen atom apart!