Ultimately one side invaded another and chose violence instead of diplomacy as you pointed out in your original comment. This party has a history of such violence. Any other extrapolations are mostly moot and pointless
There is no “ultimately” in history, that eclipses everything that led up to it, or since it. Everything has significant reasons that led up to it, and understanding those reasons and legitimate concerns from all parties is KEY to making lasting peace agreements. Click the link above to find out what they are.
Here are more links showing leaders of billions of people, and the polls of the people themselves, seeing more than one side and putting blame on USA and NATO for instance, for backing Russia into a corner like a cornered animal, arming Ukraine, blocking all peace agreements and efforts and goading it to lash out with this horrific pre-emptive invasion, which has been systematically called in the US “unprovoked and unjustified” as a concerted effort to make you not look at the man behind the curtain:
Even in the centers of the most hawkish anti-Russian sentiment we have leaders warning about all this before it even started. For example Nigel Farage in UK 2014:
Here in the US, dire warnings about NATO expansion were given by every single ambassador to Russia, and every foreign policy expert concurred (including the architect of the USSR containment policy), but were systematically ignored by the Clinton and Bush administrations:
And even last year, US politicians slightly outside the establishment got together and tried to call for peace talks. They were swiftly rebuked by the Biden administration:
Today, most Republicans running for president, and many in Congress, are skeptical of the narrative, and would take steps to usher in peace if they got more power.
So no — ignoring BILLIONS of people, EXPERTS in our own countries whose job it is to study these things, and even political leaders in OUR country, is not reasonable. There is a war hawk “establishment” in imperial countries (USA, Russia, China) that always pushes for more conflict, if it is allowed, and intelligence agencies work behind the topple democracies and make it happen, until the more civilian-level policians (eg State department) get involved once the ground is set: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JoW75J5bnnE
Educate yourself to see why there is more than one side to this.
I gave you a master link to everything, but here are great documentaries also from 2014 when it all went down:
No sorry I'm simply pointing you back to your own rhetoric. You're barking up the wrong tree if you think I'm a NATO or America apologist. I just find it laughable the mental hoops that some people will jump through to avoid pointing the finger at the most violent party to this conflict. There was a diplomatic solution to be found, Russia chose violence. They used lies and deceit to justify it as they have in all conflicts since 1991. Ultimately they wage war for the sake of capitalist ambitions just as all of those other governments and institutions you listed
pseg134|2 years ago
EGreg|2 years ago
Here are more links showing leaders of billions of people, and the polls of the people themselves, seeing more than one side and putting blame on USA and NATO for instance, for backing Russia into a corner like a cornered animal, arming Ukraine, blocking all peace agreements and efforts and goading it to lash out with this horrific pre-emptive invasion, which has been systematically called in the US “unprovoked and unjustified” as a concerted effort to make you not look at the man behind the curtain:
India (most populous nation, 1.5 billion people) https://m.thewire.in/article/world/more-indians-hold-us-nato...
China (second most populous nation, another 1.5 billion people) https://uscnpm.org/2022/04/19/chinese-public-opinion-war-in-...
The Pope (1 billion Catholics): https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-06-14/pope-repe...
Imran Khan (400 million Pakistanis - ousted with US support recently for failing to fall in line) https://theintercept.com/2023/08/09/imran-khan-pakistan-cyph...
Brazil (both presidents refuse to condemn Russia alone, call for negotiations) https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/05/18/russia-ukraine-war-braz...
Even in the centers of the most hawkish anti-Russian sentiment we have leaders warning about all this before it even started. For example Nigel Farage in UK 2014:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9uNsXEu8ljM
Here in the US, dire warnings about NATO expansion were given by every single ambassador to Russia, and every foreign policy expert concurred (including the architect of the USSR containment policy), but were systematically ignored by the Clinton and Bush administrations:
https://theconversation.com/ukraine-war-follows-decades-of-w...
And even last year, US politicians slightly outside the establishment got together and tried to call for peace talks. They were swiftly rebuked by the Biden administration:
https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/oct/25/democrats-jo...
Today, most Republicans running for president, and many in Congress, are skeptical of the narrative, and would take steps to usher in peace if they got more power.
So no — ignoring BILLIONS of people, EXPERTS in our own countries whose job it is to study these things, and even political leaders in OUR country, is not reasonable. There is a war hawk “establishment” in imperial countries (USA, Russia, China) that always pushes for more conflict, if it is allowed, and intelligence agencies work behind the topple democracies and make it happen, until the more civilian-level policians (eg State department) get involved once the ground is set: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JoW75J5bnnE
Educate yourself to see why there is more than one side to this.
I gave you a master link to everything, but here are great documentaries also from 2014 when it all went down:
PBS: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/documentary/battle-for-uk...
BBC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SBo0akeDMY
OldFatCactus|2 years ago