>I hate when someone says, "Oh, Schwarzenegger is the perfect example of a self-made man" because I'm not. I'm a creation of my parents. I'm a creation of my coaches, my teachers. I have been helped by my training partners, by my friends. Especially when I think about coming to America, it was Joe Wheeler that helped me to come over here, got me the airline ticket, helped me get the apartment and the car. The people of California voted for me to be governor of California. So I didn't become governor because I'm self-made; I became governor because people voted for me.
I love this humility and wish more people would have it. Even if you weren't supported by individuals, it is due to the society around you, its infrastructure, its structure, its technology, that you are able to be a "success". We are the product of things we had no control over initially. Yet people still say "self made" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Both concepts can be true. A lot of people, especially in the developed world, have way more opportunities than they realize. Those that take on some (often very modest) risk to exercise those opportunities are self-made.
It would be ridiculous to say that Picasso didn't make a painting because someone else supplied the paint. He's the one that saw the paint and the canvas and put them together in a unique way.
This is sort of a crippling mindset though. If we tell ourselves others succeed because of what they were given, that's not really putting yourself in a position where you're likely to take control over your own life. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Whether you tell yourself you're destined for greatness or be a deadbeat and fighting against this destiny is pointless, and you're more than likely to be correct.
I don't think this is particularly informative. You gotta play the hand you're dealt and make the most of it. It's not fair in the sense everyone has the same opportunities, but there's still a spectrum of accomplishments that can be achieved by any given person.
Contrast to Vinod Khosla who couldn’t have been anywhere near as successful anywhere other than California. As a thank you he tries to restrict public access to California beaches.
Maybe it’s the language and phrasing that implies 1 of the 2 extremes.
1. Self made, implying it was solely the efforts of a said persons OR
2. Product of timing, luck, circumstance, implying there was nothing special about what the said person did.
Reality is it’s probably often a mix of both. The person had help, the right environment etc but also talent and put in hard work. Maybe there is a better phrase than “self made”. “Through effort and circumstance”, but catchier.
He's a (successful) politician. I wouldn't expect him to say that of course he's self-made and his listeners (whose votes he may or may not need) are a bunch of not-self-made losers. That sentence doesn't give me a lot of information about what he actually thinks.
Will you stay consistent and blame failures on society as well? Many are quick to take away one's successes as earned but then make some BS up about all bad things being deserved.
The just world fallacy is one of the most harmful.
We aren't strictly the product of environmental determinism. That has an influence, but we don't all make the same choices. There's a social expectation among public facing individuals to downplay their efforts and investments and chalk everything up to privilege, luck or divine blessing, and they're punished for deviating from that.
There are ample examples of people who are supported similar, if even better (privilege) by society and do not reach that level of success. So I guess if there were a regression model, you would find his own hard work elevated him above the others.
In practice, there’s no conflict between feeling gratitude for the positive things in one’s life and having an internal locus of control. In theory, those feelings are hard to express in a single narrative
I grew up in the 80s and it’s hard to overstate how dominant Arnold was back then. Every little boy wanted to be Commando or Conan.
I also remember when he was governor (I live in cali). Those years I remember less fondly. He was not very good imo but it’s impressive nonetheless that he achieved that milestone.
Once in a lifetime phenomenon. I’m really enjoying this new more thoughtful and reflective era he’s having.
My recollection was that he was a good governor but tied up with political red tape. Also, compare him to other California governors since then and he doesn’t seem so bad.
One of the things I love about his autobiography is that he talks with the same sense of wonder about the people he wanted to be growing up, and reflects on meeting his heroes. In one of my favorite passages in the book, he talks about growing up on on Joe Weider's bodybuilding magazines:
> “Other pictures in the magazine showed scientists and technicians in white lab coats developing nutritional supplements in the Weider Research Clinic. “Weider Research Clinic,” I would say to myself, “this is unbelievable!” And there were pictures of airplanes with “Weider” painted on the side in big letters. I’d imagined an outfit the size of General Motors, with a fleet of planes flying around the globe delivering Weider equipment and food supplements. The writing in the magazine sounded fabulous too when my friends translated it for me. The stories talked about “blasting the muscles” and building “deltoids like cannonballs” and “a chest like a fortress.”
> And now here I was, six years later, on Venice Beach! Just like Dave Draper, only now it was me with the dune buggy and the surfboard and the adoring girls. Of course, by this time I was aware enough to see that Weider was creating a whole fantasy world, with a foundation in reality but skyscrapers of hype. Yes, there were surfboards, but the bodybuilders didn’t really surf. Yes, there were pretty girls, but they were models who got paid for the photo session. (Actually, one of the girls was Joe’s wife, Betty, a beautiful model whom he didn’t have to pay.) Yes, there were Weider supplements and, yes, some research took place, but there was no big building in Los Angeles called the Weider Research Clinic. Yes, Weider products were distributed around the world, but there were no Weider planes. Discovering the hype didn’t bother me, though. Enough of it was true.”
Schwarzenegger was a perfectly fine governor of California. He actually created a mobile pandemic response capability for the state (instant hospital beds), but it was dismantled before the pandemic happened. Would have been handy when hospital beds became scarce.
I'm a fan of Arnold, but I think it's pretty clear that he suffers from issues stemming from his rough relationship with his father. How else could you become the embodiment of success and hard work if not for a pathological need to succeed and impress? It seems to have worked out for him, but in any other person I'd consider his insane work ethics to be toxic and unhealthy.
I don't think that necessarily holds. It's a common trope to look at someone who's had a rough childhood and then become a success and say that it's because of their rough childhood. But this overlooks all the people who had a rough childhood and didn't become a success, why doesn't it hold there? Similarly, many people are successful without having a rough childhood. In essence, if you can easily make the same argument either way, that the childhood did/did not matter, then it's hard to say that it holds any bearing.
Of course, I don't disagree that coming from that background comes to define many parts of one's character, but to say that that's the reason for where they ended up is in my opinion a bit too reductionist.
Validation isn't something you only get from your parents. Notwithstanding, it's not the only motivating factor for achieving and taking risks. Arnold's charisma and charm helped him go far rather early (he made his first million in construction with a fellow bodybuilder). He seems to delight in competing and new challenges. Some people are built that way.
> I'm a fan of Arnold, but I think it's pretty clear that he suffers from issues stemming from his rough relationship with his father.
Read the book and watch the Netflix documentary. I’m pretty sure Arnold is self-aware of his father issues. For a concrete example, Arnold’s brother dies drinking-and-driving at the age of 24. Arnold contrasts the way he was able to handle his relationship with his father compared to his deceased brother.
When I was young I struggled to fit in with others. I didn't know what to do so that other people would like me. As an older adult, I understood that everyone respects and appreciates someone who can deal with problems and get things done, in other words, a useful person. This is all there's to it. A big part of it is getting physically in shape. A big strong man is perceived as a useful man. I wish I figured this out earlier.
This is why he decided to be a body builder > actor > politician of course, makes perfect sense (people usually profess the beliefs their actions contradict the most)
Entertaining people can be useful to society, without fun we'd simply be worker drones living miserable lives.
That said, I also struggle to see how how this guiding principle of "being useful" led him to take these actions. More likely, his real principle is, "be successful" in the dominant media view of "be famous, by doing anything you can to get there". He's selling a book with the same title as his "philosophy" so there's the real answer. I don't mean to be negative towards him, but this article reads like bullshit to me.
Arnold kept inspiring people from all walks of life that through hard work you can, in the case of body building quite literally, shape your own reality.
If you're a founder or just someone who wants to be inspired, read his book 'Total Recall'. It's a fantastic story of his life and I came away really motivated reading it.
Arnold is a nice guy, certainly, but his political legacy is a bit questionable. He was a useful tool for certain energy interests, but it's not that laudable:
> "On May 17, 2001, future Republican governor Arnold Schwarzenegger and former Los Angeles Mayor Republican Richard Riordan met with Enron CEO Kenneth Lay at the Peninsula Beverly Hills Hotel in Beverly Hills. The meeting was convened for Enron to present its "Comprehensive Solution for California," which called for an end to federal and state investigations into Enron's role in the California energy crisis."
Maybe a tool for energy interests, but apparently not a very useful one given the fate of Enron and Lay in the months and years following that meeting. There were plenty of investigations into Enron after Schwarzenegger was elected governor.
Are you professing that we should pass on everone that doesn't have a perfect record?
I mean, is there someone with a perfect record?
I think you learn and grow to be good, to take care of others, and this process goes with mistakes that impact yourself and others... You cannot expect someone to be always 100% perfect all the time.
As for myself, I did tons of shit that I am not proud of, so you should pass on this comment as well...
What’s wrong with using steroids? If it’s your own body you should be able to use them. I won’t, but I don’t put a lot of things in my body that others do.
[+] [-] padolsey|2 years ago|reply
I love this humility and wish more people would have it. Even if you weren't supported by individuals, it is due to the society around you, its infrastructure, its structure, its technology, that you are able to be a "success". We are the product of things we had no control over initially. Yet people still say "self made" ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[+] [-] chmod600|2 years ago|reply
It would be ridiculous to say that Picasso didn't make a painting because someone else supplied the paint. He's the one that saw the paint and the canvas and put them together in a unique way.
[+] [-] marginalia_nu|2 years ago|reply
I don't think this is particularly informative. You gotta play the hand you're dealt and make the most of it. It's not fair in the sense everyone has the same opportunities, but there's still a spectrum of accomplishments that can be achieved by any given person.
[+] [-] ralph84|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] yibg|2 years ago|reply
1. Self made, implying it was solely the efforts of a said persons OR
2. Product of timing, luck, circumstance, implying there was nothing special about what the said person did.
Reality is it’s probably often a mix of both. The person had help, the right environment etc but also talent and put in hard work. Maybe there is a better phrase than “self made”. “Through effort and circumstance”, but catchier.
[+] [-] jasfi|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MrPatan|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] zlg_codes|2 years ago|reply
The just world fallacy is one of the most harmful.
[+] [-] slothtrop|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hackernewds|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] isleyaardvark|2 years ago|reply
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Upm9LnuCBUM#t=1m24s
[+] [-] suoduandao2|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|2 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] jef_leppard|2 years ago|reply
I also remember when he was governor (I live in cali). Those years I remember less fondly. He was not very good imo but it’s impressive nonetheless that he achieved that milestone.
Once in a lifetime phenomenon. I’m really enjoying this new more thoughtful and reflective era he’s having.
EDIT: moved some words around for clarity.
[+] [-] appleiigs|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] maxverse|2 years ago|reply
> “Other pictures in the magazine showed scientists and technicians in white lab coats developing nutritional supplements in the Weider Research Clinic. “Weider Research Clinic,” I would say to myself, “this is unbelievable!” And there were pictures of airplanes with “Weider” painted on the side in big letters. I’d imagined an outfit the size of General Motors, with a fleet of planes flying around the globe delivering Weider equipment and food supplements. The writing in the magazine sounded fabulous too when my friends translated it for me. The stories talked about “blasting the muscles” and building “deltoids like cannonballs” and “a chest like a fortress.”
> And now here I was, six years later, on Venice Beach! Just like Dave Draper, only now it was me with the dune buggy and the surfboard and the adoring girls. Of course, by this time I was aware enough to see that Weider was creating a whole fantasy world, with a foundation in reality but skyscrapers of hype. Yes, there were surfboards, but the bodybuilders didn’t really surf. Yes, there were pretty girls, but they were models who got paid for the photo session. (Actually, one of the girls was Joe’s wife, Betty, a beautiful model whom he didn’t have to pay.) Yes, there were Weider supplements and, yes, some research took place, but there was no big building in Los Angeles called the Weider Research Clinic. Yes, Weider products were distributed around the world, but there were no Weider planes. Discovering the hype didn’t bother me, though. Enough of it was true.”
[+] [-] metabagel|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mr_mitm|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Etheryte|2 years ago|reply
Of course, I don't disagree that coming from that background comes to define many parts of one's character, but to say that that's the reason for where they ended up is in my opinion a bit too reductionist.
[+] [-] slothtrop|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pkaler|2 years ago|reply
Read the book and watch the Netflix documentary. I’m pretty sure Arnold is self-aware of his father issues. For a concrete example, Arnold’s brother dies drinking-and-driving at the age of 24. Arnold contrasts the way he was able to handle his relationship with his father compared to his deceased brother.
[+] [-] lottin|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hcks|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] neontomo|2 years ago|reply
That said, I also struggle to see how how this guiding principle of "being useful" led him to take these actions. More likely, his real principle is, "be successful" in the dominant media view of "be famous, by doing anything you can to get there". He's selling a book with the same title as his "philosophy" so there's the real answer. I don't mean to be negative towards him, but this article reads like bullshit to me.
[+] [-] marc|2 years ago|reply
I’d call that being useful.
[+] [-] jawerty|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] koonsolo|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] booleandilemma|2 years ago|reply
Why is that?
[+] [-] dopeboy|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] maxverse|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] shipscode|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|2 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] pchristensen|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] runjake|2 years ago|reply
But Arnold’s first interview with Tim back in 2015 was much better (IMHO).
https://tim.blog/2015/02/02/arnold-schwarzenegger/
[+] [-] Animats|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] photochemsyn|2 years ago|reply
> "On May 17, 2001, future Republican governor Arnold Schwarzenegger and former Los Angeles Mayor Republican Richard Riordan met with Enron CEO Kenneth Lay at the Peninsula Beverly Hills Hotel in Beverly Hills. The meeting was convened for Enron to present its "Comprehensive Solution for California," which called for an end to federal and state investigations into Enron's role in the California energy crisis."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000%E2%80%9301_California_ele...
[+] [-] rnrn|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] avalys|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] b3nji|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] wly_cdgr|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ARandomerDude|2 years ago|reply
I would question whether any of those count as useful.
[+] [-] gardenhedge|2 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] BowBun|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] monooso|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] runjake|2 years ago|reply
https://www.netflix.com/title/81317673
[+] [-] ws66|2 years ago|reply
I mean, is there someone with a perfect record?
I think you learn and grow to be good, to take care of others, and this process goes with mistakes that impact yourself and others... You cannot expect someone to be always 100% perfect all the time.
As for myself, I did tons of shit that I am not proud of, so you should pass on this comment as well...
[+] [-] 29athrowaway|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] monero-xmr|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] geraldwhen|2 years ago|reply
The US Olympic teams have team doctors to help the athletes cycle off in time for the drug test.
[+] [-] suid|2 years ago|reply