[zorrolovsky]

> It's amazing how much damage these cargo-cult UI/UX morons have done in the past ten years. They threw out several decades of usability pioneered by real HID experts for something that looks pretty but doesn't fucking work for a lot of people.

No need to throw insults. I love HN because it's one of the few places where civil debate trumps the hateful tone of all other platforms.

I fundamentally agree with usability being more important than aesthetics. But I don't know what you mean by UX/UI cargo-cult morons.

I'm a UX/UI leader with 20+ years of experience. To me, the main culprits of crimes against usability are business leaders and marketers, not designers (although these do bear some of the blame). Yes, there are designers who think form is more important than function and push for small scrollbars. However, when you explain the issues they often back down and create usable designs. I wish the same was true for C-level leaders, marketing leaders and managers. In UI terms they're both ignorant and opinionated. A dangerous combination. Their demands are typically "I like the scrollbar of this website", " the design doesn't look modern" and similar. The amount of fighting that takes to push for usability and accessibility is excruciating. We need some roles and ranks to act more professionally, and trust the experts. And yes, we also need some designers to think usability first.

[magicalhippo]

> In UI terms they're both ignorant and opinionated.

These are the UX/UI cargo-cult morons you're looking for.

It seems in the software world we've yet to establish our own version of industrial design[1] so "regular" designers gets used. And leaders who decide aren't technical so they don't get usability.

I think the lack of competition also make the terrible designs seem successful.

I'm not using Teams because it looks great. I'm using it because my org uses it for chat and meetings. It's not like they let people try a few different looks for Teams and then see which people like the most.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_design

[anthk]

Industrial design could be NeXTStep/GNUStep, Windows 95/98/2k with the classic theme or Motif/FVWM and/or TCL/TK. Functional, raw, but readily usable.

[pseudalopex]

The software version of industrial design was HCI. Human computer interaction.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human%E2%80%93computer_interac...

[watwut]

> To me, the main culprits of crimes against usability are business leaders and marketers, not designers (although these do bear some of the blame). [...] However, when you explain the issues they often back down and create usable designs.

Honestly, my experience is the opposite. It is almost always designers who push for what they consider aesthetically pleasing with very little regard to usability.

Yes, when you push back a lot, you sometimes win. But it takes too much fighting, you need to be at powerful position to have the chance to win and they simply do not seem to care about usability.

[eschaton]

This is what happens when you confuse graphic designers with human interface designers.