One interesting fact: Leisure Suit Larry is pretty much directly based on the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softporn_Adventure text adventure game. If you try it, you'll find the plot and the surroundings very familiar.
Wow... according to Wikipedia, the women on the box were all employees of On-Line Systems, the precursor to Sierra. One of them is a bookkeeper! I'd be curious as to how the convinced them to pose naked on the box.
The game has no major female characters who aren't hookers.
No arguing that LSL has its place in gaming history, but it doesn't have a place in a future that is trying its hardest to remove objectification of women from society.
EDIT: The down voting button is not a disagree button. If you disagree, reply!
Huh. Larry is a loser. A sad loser who fails with women all the time. So this game has no major male character who is not displayed as a complete loser. This is sexism!
Or did you never play Larry and posted after looking at random third-party media about it?
Seriously, the game series is about the struggle of a stereotype of a "disgusting" male. And it is dark humour, sarcasm, cynism, you name it.
> a future that is trying its hardest to remove
> objectification of women from society
How about the future where women decide for themselves what to do (including providing sex for money) instead of some righteous males knowing what's the best?
Whatever happened to the awareness of the context?
Ironically some of the most common female sexual fantasies involve them being objectified one way or other—because in this case they are not responsible and have no guilt for acting contrary to the expectations of the society which wants them to be serious, shy, prudent, etc. Guess who is responsible for such expectations.
And yes, why fictional violence gets free pass, but sex is tabu (or even crime).
Imagine the outcry if instead of "shooter" S stood for "sex" in FPX games played by teens.
How come that depiction of killing other is OK, but sex, which is key to our survival is not OK?
I don't think 'Fawn' (the woman whom Larry marries and who later ties him to the bed and robs him) is a hooker. I would consider her a major female character.
If LSL serves only to objectify women, then doesn't Grand Theft Auto serve only to glorify crime?
I always felt like these games were less about the women, and more about the comedy, stupidity and repulsiveness of the main character.
I'm not going to partake in the discussion about whether fictional work should or should not objectify women. I have my take on it and others theirs, and we can agree to disagree. No moral absolutes.
But to be against a work of fiction that _parodies_ negative concepts, like objectification of women, which is clearly what LSL is about if you ever played it, is not acceptable from a freedom of speech perspective. Once you start finding disagreements with parodies, you're on a slippery slope. Next thing you are disagreeing with religious or political parody. A parody is about conveying a negative concept humorously after all, if the common mindset found the concept agreeable, it wouldn't be called a parody in the first place.
This really just boils down to saying, "the society is too stupid to understand subtleties, so we better keep humor and entertainment direct and remove any irony/parody/cynical/dark humor". There are countries where this mindset is common, and censorship is what it leads to, I know this because I've been there.
Why can't something exist that deviates from what society deems as the social norm?
Do you feel that other forms of art and entertainment should also not objectify women? Do you feel porn should be banned?
I personally feel that there should be a clear line between real life and art/entertainment. While I completely agree that we should not objectify women in real life, I feel that an artist or an entertainer should have the liberties to create any imaginary world they want.
Two things. You're ready to censor entertainment on a political basis. I am not. If men stopped seeing women as sexual objects, human race would die out.
Maybe it's beyond your comprehension that males do have strong sexual urges. Wheter you call it objectification, or arousal triggered by visual stimuli is semantics. In the end you're just blaming the men for being men.
Disagree... Mainly because I could easily envision a society in which this argument snowballs, careening down a slippery slope until all comedy (South park, family guy, etc) is seen as harmful to society and made illegal or highly censored.
I've never played this game, but I'm guessing it is supposed to be humorous, and I think protecting satire and supporting comedic efforts is extremely important.
I'm sorry you're getting downvoted. I think this comment adds to the conversation quite a bit, and this is actually the conversation I was expecting to see when I came to check out the comments. It's crazy to see this so recently after Geeklist, Sqoot, etc.
I have to agree with this. A lot of people are probably remembering the game through rose coloured glasses. It was a great game when we were all kids and got excited at the prospect of seeing a nipple.
It's a little disappointing to see immature misogynistic entertainment getting so many upvotes on HN.
There are many who have no problem with (sometimes) treating women as sexual objects. Such people often do have a problem with the use of language as a political weapon. See: objectification, sexist, misogyny, patriarchy, glass ceiling, etc.
If you want to play King's Quest I, Police Quest I, Space Quest I or a few other Sierra games legally in your browser (HTML5) right now, go here: http://sarien.net/. The blog says that they used to also have Leisure Suit Larry but had to take it down since Activision had sold the IP.
I wrote an iPhone game that's extremely like Leisure Suit Larry, about a year or two ago. Same spirit and game mechanics. Called "The Adventures of Khaki Pants Pete". Pretty much a nod to LSL, even the name was a tongue-in-cheek reference to it's name. I did it under contract for a dev shop that in turn did it for the company that owns the Klondike Bar. A lot of people said it was pretty fun. I thought it was fun. And I'm old enough to have played LSL version 1.
From the LSL Kickstarter project goals:
* The freedom to play on mobile devices
* A modern point-and-click/touchscreen interface
* Updated, ultra-high res graphics
* Fully voiced characters
* Even more of the humor that’s made Al Lowe a household name…like “Borders” and “Enron”!
Khaki Pants Pete did/does all of that, except the voiced characters. Has music and audio feedback effects, but only on-screen text dialogue bubbles. Though pretty funny.
I'm not sure if I like or dislike the fact that their KS project has set a goal of raising $500k to fund developing it. I know our/my budget for making Khaki Pants Pete was much much less than that. My slice was much smaller anyway. :)
clarification: I did not design the game play or script, but I did design and code the entire game engine from scratch, solo.
I remember asking my parents for the age verification questions to be able to run LSL when I was a kid. I would head downstairs and ask her random trivia questions because it was easier than asking the Encyclopedia Britannica or what passed for the internet in those days. Obviously this day and age this is not possible due to Wikipedia, but in it's time and place it made me more likely to play rogue and/or do something productive with my computer.
Not sure if anyone remembers that aspect of it, but I still do.
If there was a moral story, it was lost on me at that age, and not likely to revisit it. Certainly better than Custer's Revenge, which is a horrifying concept and makes me very sad.
If you think that LSL is a good and relevant example of misogyny and bad attitudes towards women, then apparently you never turn on your TV, watch movies or look at at advertisements around you. A rehash of LSL is the least of our problems in this space.
People feel better when you treat them as people, not objects. This goes for men and women. We're all human and deserve a lot of respect and understanding.
Some people probably like the cheap thrills that the game offers, some are nostalgic, some may be interested in social commentary. This is all quite all right and healthy.
// I got Neil Young's "Pochohontas" associated with that terrible game. AAAAAAAAHHH. :'(
I think the fact that this is primarily a PC port with iOS/Android merely a possibility is a deal-killer for me, thhe content notwithstanding. I'm not saying that PCs aren't technically the largest gaming platform by user base...I'm saying that the largest base of casual gamers with money to blow by far is iOS and Android. From what I remember, LSL and Kings Quest were largely casual in mechanic.
Secret of Monkey Island and several of the modern Capcom adventure games (Phantom Detective) have made successful transitions. If this is being built from scratch, why is this not focused on what is clearly becoming the biggest casual gaming platform?
Because the game is not going to be casualized, that was clearly stated - they will not dumb it down. If it's a problem then I guess you don't have to chip in. Lets just vote with wallets.
I guess I'm a bit confused about how you're using casual to describe gaming. I'd argue that King Quest were some of the least casual games in history. I'm a lousy FPS player, but none of the Modern Warfare games would require a tenth the time I spent trying to get past the Yeti in Kings Quest V.
The old Sierra games required constant focus and diligent note taking that I would have thought would rule them out from being casual. You'd never get anywhere with these games just spending ten minutes a day playing on the train. It can work for Monkey Island, since you can keep slamming things together until you win, but the Sierra games punish anything short of building a complete mental map of the game universe.
EDIT: I suddenly became afraid that this post came off as snarky or sarcastic. I didn't intend for it to be. Honestly, I'm just getting old and recognizing that the definition of casual changed while I wasn't looking. I really do want to know what it now means for a game to be casual.
Why stretch it out more? LSL was fun, but it's time is passed. Why not something new like "Skinny Tie Sam" or "Pleather Pants Paul"? Create the world from scratch and don't be beholden to what's come before.
edit in case anybody is interested, they should check out Matt Chat on Youtube, some of the most compelling interviews with adventure game designers of the past...
I think this genre of games is ripe for a comeback on iOS. Just try to avoid having the keyboard pop up all the time and it should be great.. Although discovering the secret commands and hidden jokes by randomly trying words was half the fun of the old Quest titles.
I've started an ios game in the spirit of SQ2, have done a lot of the code, production artwork for a few scenes, and scribbled artwork for all the rest. I'd love to finish it but my designer is too busy to continue.
I'm thinking a film would be better as Larry hits the social networks and stumbles across a plot to spike drinks city-wide, something mixing American Pie, James Bond and Austin Powers - with/without CGI females?
Loved this game as a kid. My granddad had a computer with it installed. When he was downstairs talking to my parents I'd load it up. At the beginning of the game it had a bunch of questions to 'prove you were and adult'. I rarely got past those questions! That was half the fun, when I actually got in the game I didn't really know what to do but loved the way you could apparently do anything.
Someone please bring Starflight back. Hell, they could simply use the exact story of the original and its sequel and have two great games.
Well provided they don't make it first person :P
There are so many great games from the eighties. Many of them had to have original elements and wit because they were so constrained by the machines of that day.
I never played the LSL series but I'm a big fan of the classic adventure games (Space Quest and Full Throttle -- if you've never played them, you've been robbed). Maybe if this works out we'll see some more revivals. This genre in this style was completely lost in the rush to move everything to three dimensions. There are moments and feelings that simply can't be captured by other genres. The fact that they hold the rights and have Al Lowe on board makes this unbelievably cool. Good luck, guys!
now even kickstarters are going for the 'sequel' trap?
LSL is dated now. it was fresh when it was made.
how much more time they could have put into an ORIGINAL product if they haven't filled the pockets of big-game-studio?
hint: to people that actually likes games, a title that sports some well know adaptation is often associated with a bad experience to come. It's often the cheap game made to cater to parents buying xmas gifts without a clue.
[+] [-] kennu|14 years ago|reply
Personally I discovered this while reading http://www.amazon.com/Hackers-Computer-Revolution-Anniversar... which I recommend to anyone.
[+] [-] tbsdy|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] i386|14 years ago|reply
No arguing that LSL has its place in gaming history, but it doesn't have a place in a future that is trying its hardest to remove objectification of women from society.
EDIT: The down voting button is not a disagree button. If you disagree, reply!
[+] [-] aw3c2|14 years ago|reply
Or did you never play Larry and posted after looking at random third-party media about it?
Seriously, the game series is about the struggle of a stereotype of a "disgusting" male. And it is dark humour, sarcasm, cynism, you name it.
[+] [-] joelmichael|14 years ago|reply
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leisure_Suit_Larry_in_the_Land_...
[+] [-] rimantas|14 years ago|reply
Whatever happened to the awareness of the context?
Ironically some of the most common female sexual fantasies involve them being objectified one way or other—because in this case they are not responsible and have no guilt for acting contrary to the expectations of the society which wants them to be serious, shy, prudent, etc. Guess who is responsible for such expectations.
And yes, why fictional violence gets free pass, but sex is tabu (or even crime). Imagine the outcry if instead of "shooter" S stood for "sex" in FPX games played by teens.
How come that depiction of killing other is OK, but sex, which is key to our survival is not OK?
[+] [-] guelo|14 years ago|reply
Consensual sex between adults? Disgusting!
[+] [-] thetron|14 years ago|reply
If LSL serves only to objectify women, then doesn't Grand Theft Auto serve only to glorify crime?
I always felt like these games were less about the women, and more about the comedy, stupidity and repulsiveness of the main character.
[+] [-] grepherder|14 years ago|reply
But to be against a work of fiction that _parodies_ negative concepts, like objectification of women, which is clearly what LSL is about if you ever played it, is not acceptable from a freedom of speech perspective. Once you start finding disagreements with parodies, you're on a slippery slope. Next thing you are disagreeing with religious or political parody. A parody is about conveying a negative concept humorously after all, if the common mindset found the concept agreeable, it wouldn't be called a parody in the first place.
This really just boils down to saying, "the society is too stupid to understand subtleties, so we better keep humor and entertainment direct and remove any irony/parody/cynical/dark humor". There are countries where this mindset is common, and censorship is what it leads to, I know this because I've been there.
[+] [-] noneTheHacker|14 years ago|reply
Do you feel that other forms of art and entertainment should also not objectify women? Do you feel porn should be banned?
I personally feel that there should be a clear line between real life and art/entertainment. While I completely agree that we should not objectify women in real life, I feel that an artist or an entertainer should have the liberties to create any imaginary world they want.
[+] [-] gaius|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] VMG|14 years ago|reply
If we apply the idea that game worlds should be moral, what about GTA?
[+] [-] 127|14 years ago|reply
Maybe it's beyond your comprehension that males do have strong sexual urges. Wheter you call it objectification, or arousal triggered by visual stimuli is semantics. In the end you're just blaming the men for being men.
[+] [-] jtchang|14 years ago|reply
In the future games like this can be made and most people will enjoy them for that they are: games.
[+] [-] crikli|14 years ago|reply
Sexuality is one of the strongest, maybe the strongest undertone in society. This is (was) a game lampooning some of the silliness.
Take a deep breath and laugh at the silliness.
[+] [-] EricDeb|14 years ago|reply
I've never played this game, but I'm guessing it is supposed to be humorous, and I think protecting satire and supporting comedic efforts is extremely important.
[+] [-] walru|14 years ago|reply
Take a look at teen pregnancy numbers in Texas after they stopped teaching sex education in schools.
http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/article/2011/10/19/govenor-per...
[+] [-] shashashasha|14 years ago|reply
Please, downvoters, read this essay: http://notrichyet.wordpress.com/2012/03/23/whats-the-big-dea...
[+] [-] ekianjo|14 years ago|reply
Free society begins with free speech, no matter if you like what is being said or not.
[+] [-] bitwize|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] andrewfelix|14 years ago|reply
It's a little disappointing to see immature misogynistic entertainment getting so many upvotes on HN.
[+] [-] mhartl|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jaredsohn|14 years ago|reply
This was posted on Hacker News a couple of months ago: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3591342
[+] [-] mkramlich|14 years ago|reply
From the LSL Kickstarter project goals:
* The freedom to play on mobile devices * A modern point-and-click/touchscreen interface * Updated, ultra-high res graphics * Fully voiced characters * Even more of the humor that’s made Al Lowe a household name…like “Borders” and “Enron”!
Khaki Pants Pete did/does all of that, except the voiced characters. Has music and audio feedback effects, but only on-screen text dialogue bubbles. Though pretty funny.
I'm not sure if I like or dislike the fact that their KS project has set a goal of raising $500k to fund developing it. I know our/my budget for making Khaki Pants Pete was much much less than that. My slice was much smaller anyway. :)
clarification: I did not design the game play or script, but I did design and code the entire game engine from scratch, solo.
[+] [-] un1xl0ser|14 years ago|reply
Not sure if anyone remembers that aspect of it, but I still do.
If there was a moral story, it was lost on me at that age, and not likely to revisit it. Certainly better than Custer's Revenge, which is a horrifying concept and makes me very sad.
If you think that LSL is a good and relevant example of misogyny and bad attitudes towards women, then apparently you never turn on your TV, watch movies or look at at advertisements around you. A rehash of LSL is the least of our problems in this space.
People feel better when you treat them as people, not objects. This goes for men and women. We're all human and deserve a lot of respect and understanding.
Some people probably like the cheap thrills that the game offers, some are nostalgic, some may be interested in social commentary. This is all quite all right and healthy.
// I got Neil Young's "Pochohontas" associated with that terrible game. AAAAAAAAHHH. :'(
[+] [-] artmageddon|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] danso|14 years ago|reply
Secret of Monkey Island and several of the modern Capcom adventure games (Phantom Detective) have made successful transitions. If this is being built from scratch, why is this not focused on what is clearly becoming the biggest casual gaming platform?
[+] [-] ergo14|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] rprospero|14 years ago|reply
The old Sierra games required constant focus and diligent note taking that I would have thought would rule them out from being casual. You'd never get anywhere with these games just spending ten minutes a day playing on the train. It can work for Monkey Island, since you can keep slamming things together until you win, but the Sierra games punish anything short of building a complete mental map of the game universe.
EDIT: I suddenly became afraid that this post came off as snarky or sarcastic. I didn't intend for it to be. Honestly, I'm just getting old and recognizing that the definition of casual changed while I wasn't looking. I really do want to know what it now means for a game to be casual.
[+] [-] jiggy2011|14 years ago|reply
If I were in charge of developing this I would be using a cross platform setup from the start, Unity etc.
[+] [-] WiseWeasel|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bane|14 years ago|reply
edit in case anybody is interested, they should check out Matt Chat on Youtube, some of the most compelling interviews with adventure game designers of the past...
Here's Part 1 of "Al Lowe" (designer of LSL) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PGGEFQdZuw
[+] [-] superrad|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] thetron|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eps|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] sgt|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] alanbyrne|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bitwize|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] minikomi|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] chubs|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bishnu|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] adrianwaj|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] TomGullen|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Shivetya|14 years ago|reply
Well provided they don't make it first person :P
There are so many great games from the eighties. Many of them had to have original elements and wit because they were so constrained by the machines of that day.
[+] [-] papaver|14 years ago|reply
The 8-bitness of the old-school games gave the old sierra games their magic. I would have loved to play a new larry game, but this just makes me sad.
What a waste...
[+] [-] sgt|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] stanzyamith|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] coderdude|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] gcp|14 years ago|reply
I had an interesting OMG moment a while ago realizing that was also one of Tim Schafer's games.
[+] [-] gcb|14 years ago|reply
LSL is dated now. it was fresh when it was made.
how much more time they could have put into an ORIGINAL product if they haven't filled the pockets of big-game-studio?
hint: to people that actually likes games, a title that sports some well know adaptation is often associated with a bad experience to come. It's often the cheap game made to cater to parents buying xmas gifts without a clue.