[ajju]

Like Matt, I am a supporter of the state providing a solid safety net on basic needs (food, health care, self-improvement, safety) to ALL its and pay for it by taxing the well-off citizens more than the average although unlike him, I would not describe myself as a socialist.

Marriage is many things, but amongst them, it is also a safety net for the children of that marriage. At its best, it brings the resources of two extended families and friend networks together to support the couple and the children. I wonder if Matt would agree with the view that Marriage is the most “atomic” form of socialism (which he seems to support)

[dragonwriter]

> Marriage is many things, but amongst them, it is also a safety net for the children of that marriage. At its best, it brings the resources of two extended families and friend networks together to support the couple and the children

At its best, it is exactly the same in that regard as coparenting without marriage is at its best. Having had both married and unmarried parents in committed (also, in other cases, failed—both married and unmarried) relationships in my extended friends and family network, the degree of support I’ve seen them get doesn’t seem to be very different.

[ajju]

Where we probably agree:

I would agree that it is the commitment that matters.

Where we may agree:

Social norms really do impact human behavior. Marriage is a social norm supporting long term commitment. In communities where it has been replaced with another social norm supporting commitment (eg my well-off friends in Europe), it has become less relevant.

I also posit that adults in committed coparenting relationships constitute a small minority of unmarried adults in America (vs. France for example where a majority of my friends with kids match your description).

Where we probably disagree:

In my observations of close friends in loving relationships with children, previously in loving marriages, are now divorced and in respectful and functional coparenting but not cohabitating relationships.

For a considerable amount of time, they are functionally single parents. In most cases parents and siblings of one ex-spouse are unlikely to want to support the other ex-spouse with in-person child support.

The bright exception to this rule seems to be divorced co-parents who live in close proximity or in one instance in the same duplex and are good friends.