> After years of bureaucratic delays, the domain was finally shut down in 2010. Over 4,000 websites, some of the earliest examples of internet culture from the region, suddenly became inaccessible via their original domain. For many, the deletion of .yu represented the final loss of the former country, the erasure of its digital identity.
...
> With the deletion of .yu, historians and researchers lost access to websites that contained important historical records. Gone are firsthand accounts of the NATO bombing and the Kosovo War; the mailing lists that scientists used to update their colleagues on the progress of the conflict; nostalgic forums and playful virtual nation experiments.
> With the deletion of .yu, historians and researchers lost access to websites that contained important historical records. Gone are firsthand accounts of the NATO bombing and the Kosovo War; the mailing lists that scientists used to update their colleagues on the progress of the conflict; nostalgic forums and playful virtual nation experiments
Ah, that explains it.
When I try to explain what actually happened during that war to younger generations, I find it hard to impossible to find backing documentation to prove my point. As paranoid as I am, I usually attribute this to "history rewriting", and although that is probably part of it, i didn't realise a lot of information was actually lost.
> With the deletion of .yu, historians and researchers lost access to websites that contained important historical records
Don't worry, these sites probably moved to some other location - after all a website only exists while the owner has a stake in it (and is paying for that dns record + hosting/traffic)
Interestingly, Kosovo is in multiple organizations that fall under "UN Specialized Agencies" (IMF, World Bank, etc.) and as such should have received a ccTLD over 10-15 years ago as per the UN's rules.
Instead, they have to keep the temporarily assigned .xk which the UN confirmed can never be a permanent ccTLD.
What is going to happen to all .xk sites once the UN finally gets around to publishing the bulletin on Kosovo's country code?
It is a very sad thing to remove TLD for any country, no matter if it does not exist anymore. As the author underlined, tons of valuable and interesting historical resources are lost for good.
ICANN should change this rule, IMHO.
Not sure what this article is about. A country with the name of Yugoslavia continued to exist all throughout the 90s. The article argues it was some kind of an imperialistic claim, but ... whatever? It still existed and it was called like this. They took part in the FIFA world cup 1998 under the name? I find it strange that the article pretends this doesn't matter and matter of factly deals with the "curious" case of a country not existing, but its domain existing.
If they wanted to deal with this case, they had the .su domain of the Soviet Union, which still exists.
> I find it strange that the article pretends this doesn't matter and matter of factly deals with the "curious" case of a country not existing, but its domain existing.
While the article is wrong about the amount of time, it is correct that .yu outlived Yugoslavia by several years; the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia was replaced in 2003 with the State Union of Serbia and Montenegro, which itself was dissolved in 2006; the .yu domain was eliminated in 2010.
> If they wanted to deal with this case, they had the .su domain of the Soviet Union, which still exists.
The situation with the .su domain is discussed at length in the article and its continued existence and use is contrasted with the treatment of .yu.
I think main point of the article is that with deletion of .yu domain many websites and historical content was lost - "At its peak .yu hosted about 32,000 websites."
> A country with the name of Yugoslavia continued to exist all throughout the 90s.
A country that claimed that name existed. It wasn't widely recognised as being the successor state of the country of that name and was not considered entitled to its domain name.
One could also argue the ISO code is inappropriate though and UK would have been better (because the country that GB refers to is the United Kingdom, not just Great Britain).
In recent years the British government seems to be distancing itself from the term Great Britain (perhaps as a consequence of more awareness/sympathy of Northern Irish issues?), and using United Kingdom / UK more.
Now that we have .porn, .sex, .win, .gay, .casino TLDs, I see no reason in TLDs deletion for whatever reason. If a country ceases to exist, just let this TLD be re-registered under the current conditions for registering custom TLDs. No?
Nations die very rarely so this is probably up for discussion each time. I suppose it does become an issue when in 200 years a new country named Yurnia wants the .yu domain.
I once had to "clean up" the digital presence of someone who had committed suicide (because of how youth services treated him, years before it actually happened).
Delayed it for months. Still felt incredibly bad when I finally did do it.
Another case why the Internet Archive is one of the most important organizations of our time. A lot of people attribute this to the rewrite of history, and the far-right wing parties across the planet abuse misinformation propaganda strategies to an extent never seen before - exactly because of this phenomena.
Google nowadays can't even find links from 10 years ago, let alone not show me stupid ads that have nothing to do with the search terms. The social internet ruined accreditability and transparency of where the information comes from.
We need to fix this. Otherwise the people in power will be the people that control misinformation (which, globally speaking, is AIMS, Team Jorge, and Russia right now).
I don't know where you live, pal, but in my country, it's the extreme left that one that's rewriting History and censoring books and media. So yes, Internet Archive is the very important but not because of what you said but because of the opposite.
I’ve spent a lot of time in the Balkans, and one interesting real world equivalent to this domain is that a lot of older ex-Yugoslavians, especially ones that went abroad in the 90s, still identify themselves primarily as Yugoslavians and not as Serbians, Croats, etc. Maybe a bit of it is nostalgia, but I think a similar thing might happen if America broke up into separate countries. You’d still have a sizable amount of people that identify more as Americans than as Californians/New Yorkers/etc.
There are enough people who still identify as Yugoslavs in some way that articles can be written about this as a thing. However, as one who speaks BCMS and Albanian and travels the region for months each year talking with random people about these things, my own experience is that is merely a subculture, not anything representative.
A lot of people going abroad in the 1990s, or as gastarbeiter before that, were coming from Bosnia, the Sanjak, or Kosovo and they understandably are loath to identify with a state they saw as dominated by the Serbs, who committed atrocities against them. For Albanian speakers, Yugoslavia was a Slav-dominated project in general. As for Croatia, significant opposition to Yugoslavia began already by the early 1970s and it only got worse after the 1991 war.
Not only nostalgia. Many families from former Yugoslavia don't fit in narrow national identities of new Balkan states. e.g. one parent from Serbia, the other from Croatia. Would be nice to also have some sort of an umbrella nationality like British or American.
My parents left inthe 60s and met abroad, had 4 kids, my grandma came out to them in the 80s to help raise the kids.
The first time my grandma was supposed to return after the civil war she returned with her yogoslavian passport. They actually had a situation at the border where the border guards had to tell my grandma "I'm sorry madam, but this country no longer exists" :D
This kind of thing happens with language too. Areas which historically had a lot of immigration sometimes end up with immigrant communities that still speak "the old way". I know some Brazilians of Japanese descent who've moved "back to" Japan. They take Japanese language lessons and the instructors always know to tell these folks "don't talk like your parents/grandparents", since the lingo on the mainland has shifted significantly.
I've also heard the rumor that this is why the US and UK speak differently, and that the US is actually how Britain used to sound, but I've also seen people say it's BS.
This is BS and sold to outsiders. "Ne našima". People born there know what happened and who did what. Just a little excerpt from Wiki
Ethnic cleansing occurred during the Bosnian War (1992–95) as large numbers of Bosnian Muslims (Bosniaks) and Bosnian Croats were forced to flee their homes or were expelled by the Army of Republika Srpska and Serb paramilitaries.[6][7][8][9] Bosniaks and Bosnian Serbs had also been forced to flee or were expelled by Bosnian Croat forces, though on a restricted scale and in lesser numbers. The UN Security Council Final Report (1994) states while Bosniaks also engaged in "grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions and other violations of international humanitarian law", they "have not engaged in "systematic ethnic cleansing"".[10] According to the report, "there is no factual basis for arguing that there is a 'moral equivalence' between the warring factions".[10]
> but I think a similar thing might happen if America broke up into separate countries. You’d still have a sizable amount of people that identify more as Americans than as Californians/New Yorkers/etc.
And yet, invariably when you meet an American in some other country, and ask him where is he from, he will answer "I'm from California/New York/Alabama/Ohio".
Back when I lived in Europe and had a lot of contact with international people, I used to pull the leg when that happened. If an American introduced himself like that, I will introduce myself in a similar way: "I am from Campeche" ... let HIM try to guess what that meant haha.
All ex-Yugoslav republics are speaking the same Serbo-Croatian language, despite calling it Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian etc. Even today, after 20 years of separation, their languages are closer to each other than some South and North Italian dialects. Genetically they are mostly the same population too. Only Albanians in Kosovo and Metohia are exception in both cases.
So, technically Bosniaks, Croats, Macedonians, Montenegrins, Serbs, and Slovenians are South Slavs, or literally Yugo-Slavs.
Similar with Czechoslovakia, although it is limited to older people who spent their formative years during that time.
Given the American identity is much older than either of these 2 examples and there aren't even these underlying nations like in e. g. Yugoslavia, I'd expect this effect to be way stronger and persistent in America.
What's the name of the continent where "America" is? :D
From a European perspective, American means from the continent America, and not specifically from the US. To me a Brazilian is as much American as a US citizen.
My sample size is pretty small but I've heard Croatians in Germany the 90s identify themselves as much as Croatians than as Yugoslavians, at least to my recollections, was a kid then.
Hm, more like "some", probably "very few", definitely not "a lot."
In my experience these people are from very mixed families, for example: has a Muslim mum, Slovak dad who was a Yugoslav communist bureaucrat, born in Belgrade, married to a Slovenian army man, lives in Vienna and is 75 years old.
Everyone else finds one branch of their ethnic composition to identify with.
I would continue to identify myself as "American" if USA broke up and each state became it's own country regardless of whether I went abroad prior to that or any other situation of that sort.
Some states that cause residents to have conversations like this:
Me: "I'm American. Freedom flavored." (don't make assumptions, anyone from North or South America is American)
You: "Cool, which state?"
Me: "A united state!"
You: "What in the actual fuck? They're all united. What specific state do you reside in and/or originate from? (Smartass...)"
Me: "Look... If you sweat all the small shit you're gonna die from a heart attack in your 50s."
You: "Holy shit... So... Florida?"
Me: "Worse."
You: "Ah... Question retracted."
[+] [-] jakub_g|2 years ago|reply
...
> With the deletion of .yu, historians and researchers lost access to websites that contained important historical records. Gone are firsthand accounts of the NATO bombing and the Kosovo War; the mailing lists that scientists used to update their colleagues on the progress of the conflict; nostalgic forums and playful virtual nation experiments.
[+] [-] sugarkjube|2 years ago|reply
Ah, that explains it.
When I try to explain what actually happened during that war to younger generations, I find it hard to impossible to find backing documentation to prove my point. As paranoid as I am, I usually attribute this to "history rewriting", and although that is probably part of it, i didn't realise a lot of information was actually lost.
[+] [-] lloydatkinson|2 years ago|reply
Honestly seems a bit intentionally nuclear.
[+] [-] MichaelMoser123|2 years ago|reply
Don't worry, these sites probably moved to some other location - after all a website only exists while the owner has a stake in it (and is paying for that dns record + hosting/traffic)
[+] [-] rcbdev|2 years ago|reply
Instead, they have to keep the temporarily assigned .xk which the UN confirmed can never be a permanent ccTLD.
What is going to happen to all .xk sites once the UN finally gets around to publishing the bulletin on Kosovo's country code?
[+] [-] gbxyz|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] j16sdiz|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] pacija|2 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] msolujic|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mcfedr|2 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] locallost|2 years ago|reply
If they wanted to deal with this case, they had the .su domain of the Soviet Union, which still exists.
[+] [-] dragonwriter|2 years ago|reply
While the article is wrong about the amount of time, it is correct that .yu outlived Yugoslavia by several years; the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia was replaced in 2003 with the State Union of Serbia and Montenegro, which itself was dissolved in 2006; the .yu domain was eliminated in 2010.
> If they wanted to deal with this case, they had the .su domain of the Soviet Union, which still exists.
The situation with the .su domain is discussed at length in the article and its continued existence and use is contrasted with the treatment of .yu.
[+] [-] asta123|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] keiferski|2 years ago|reply
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbia_and_Montenegro
[+] [-] lmm|2 years ago|reply
A country that claimed that name existed. It wasn't widely recognised as being the successor state of the country of that name and was not considered entitled to its domain name.
[+] [-] _ache_|2 years ago|reply
ISO 3166 is just a base proposition, the.uk (United Kingdom) is a bad example because the ISO 3166 code is GB (Great Britain).
[+] [-] CamouflagedKiwi|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] NeoTar|2 years ago|reply
As an example - the [International vehicle registration code](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_vehicle_registra...) recently changed from GB to UK.
[+] [-] akaitea|2 years ago|reply
https://www.oldsezam.net/
[+] [-] Andrew_nenakhov|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] corbezzoli|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] soco|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] meindnoch|2 years ago|reply
So what about .tw?
[+] [-] nidnogg|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] CoBE10|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jakub_g|2 years ago|reply
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=852194
[+] [-] candiodari|2 years ago|reply
Delayed it for months. Still felt incredibly bad when I finally did do it.
[+] [-] vsviridov|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] unknown|2 years ago|reply
[deleted]
[+] [-] workfromspace|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] causi|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] cookiengineer|2 years ago|reply
Google nowadays can't even find links from 10 years ago, let alone not show me stupid ads that have nothing to do with the search terms. The social internet ruined accreditability and transparency of where the information comes from.
We need to fix this. Otherwise the people in power will be the people that control misinformation (which, globally speaking, is AIMS, Team Jorge, and Russia right now).
[+] [-] zxspectrum1982|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] keiferski|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] OfSanguineFire|2 years ago|reply
A lot of people going abroad in the 1990s, or as gastarbeiter before that, were coming from Bosnia, the Sanjak, or Kosovo and they understandably are loath to identify with a state they saw as dominated by the Serbs, who committed atrocities against them. For Albanian speakers, Yugoslavia was a Slav-dominated project in general. As for Croatia, significant opposition to Yugoslavia began already by the early 1970s and it only got worse after the 1991 war.
[+] [-] asta123|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] INTPenis|2 years ago|reply
The first time my grandma was supposed to return after the civil war she returned with her yogoslavian passport. They actually had a situation at the border where the border guards had to tell my grandma "I'm sorry madam, but this country no longer exists" :D
[+] [-] resonious|2 years ago|reply
I've also heard the rumor that this is why the US and UK speak differently, and that the US is actually how Britain used to sound, but I've also seen people say it's BS.
[+] [-] jakupovic|2 years ago|reply
Ethnic cleansing occurred during the Bosnian War (1992–95) as large numbers of Bosnian Muslims (Bosniaks) and Bosnian Croats were forced to flee their homes or were expelled by the Army of Republika Srpska and Serb paramilitaries.[6][7][8][9] Bosniaks and Bosnian Serbs had also been forced to flee or were expelled by Bosnian Croat forces, though on a restricted scale and in lesser numbers. The UN Security Council Final Report (1994) states while Bosniaks also engaged in "grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions and other violations of international humanitarian law", they "have not engaged in "systematic ethnic cleansing"".[10] According to the report, "there is no factual basis for arguing that there is a 'moral equivalence' between the warring factions".[10]
[+] [-] xtracto|2 years ago|reply
And yet, invariably when you meet an American in some other country, and ask him where is he from, he will answer "I'm from California/New York/Alabama/Ohio".
Back when I lived in Europe and had a lot of contact with international people, I used to pull the leg when that happened. If an American introduced himself like that, I will introduce myself in a similar way: "I am from Campeche" ... let HIM try to guess what that meant haha.
[+] [-] SergeAx|2 years ago|reply
So, technically Bosniaks, Croats, Macedonians, Montenegrins, Serbs, and Slovenians are South Slavs, or literally Yugo-Slavs.
[+] [-] The_Colonel|2 years ago|reply
Given the American identity is much older than either of these 2 examples and there aren't even these underlying nations like in e. g. Yugoslavia, I'd expect this effect to be way stronger and persistent in America.
[+] [-] gitanovic|2 years ago|reply
From a European perspective, American means from the continent America, and not specifically from the US. To me a Brazilian is as much American as a US citizen.
[+] [-] wink|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] mmtml|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] hahamaster|2 years ago|reply
Hm, more like "some", probably "very few", definitely not "a lot."
In my experience these people are from very mixed families, for example: has a Muslim mum, Slovak dad who was a Yugoslav communist bureaucrat, born in Belgrade, married to a Slovenian army man, lives in Vienna and is 75 years old.
Everyone else finds one branch of their ethnic composition to identify with.
[+] [-] froggit|2 years ago|reply
Some states that cause residents to have conversations like this:
Me: "I'm American. Freedom flavored." (don't make assumptions, anyone from North or South America is American) You: "Cool, which state?" Me: "A united state!" You: "What in the actual fuck? They're all united. What specific state do you reside in and/or originate from? (Smartass...)" Me: "Look... If you sweat all the small shit you're gonna die from a heart attack in your 50s." You: "Holy shit... So... Florida?" Me: "Worse." You: "Ah... Question retracted."
[+] [-] Scoundreller|2 years ago|reply
[+] [-] MichaelMoser123|2 years ago|reply
Other cancelled country TLDs
- .zr TLD for Zaire - https://www.iana.org/reports/2001/zr-report-20jun01.html
- .cs TLD for Czechoslovakia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.cs
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.an
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.um
Did i fail to mention anyone?
... Interesting that they don't have a wiki page for deleted ccTLDs.
[+] [-] resolutebat|2 years ago|reply
*twitch*