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bratsche | 2 years ago

I feel like the rights set forth in the Declaration of Independence are not really what this is all about. The US isn't saying you can't write derogatory things about it online, so it's not denying any rights. But non-citizens don't automatically have a right to enter the country, correct?

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spydum|2 years ago

spot on: the right to enter a countries borders is not granted to all individuals. The right to free speech may be, but it comes with a cost if you say things people don't like. You are still free to say them though.

jlawson|2 years ago

If authorities and those with power will apply a "cost" to you for doing an action, you do not have freedom to do that action. This is what freedom means.

Otherwise, what does it mean to you? Is your view that simply being physically capable of doing something means you're 'free' to do it?

Do you think people in North Korea have freedom of speech? After all, they can say whatever they like. It just comes with a cost (life in a labor camp).

salamanderss|2 years ago

Free speech is granted to the people. So probably not. Note right to bear arms is granted to 'people' therefore by deduction if you are barred arms you are not a person. Aliens are not typically considered 'people' in a constitutional context.

fennecbutt|2 years ago

But if the "non-citizens don't automatically have a right to enter the country" logic holds up, then what rules should be used to allow or deny entry?

Would it be okay to deny entry to a foreigner because they're black? Or gay? They don't have a right to enter anyways, so I guess it's okay.

This is really about "how does the negative things they say about the US affect how they'll improve the US by being there, if at all" which is really the general rule for most immigration; how can this person help and improve the country they're entering.

seanmcdirmid|2 years ago

I don't know. This feels really easy to abuse. Like, say I wrote something criticizing China on some issue on facebook, and then China denies a future visitor visa. Is that right? Is that reasonable? Is that good for China?

Likewise, I expect that it is not in the USA's best interest to do this, let alone fair to the person who would immigrate into the the US.

jaywalk|2 years ago

This is exactly what China does today. How is it not in a country's best interest to deny a visa to aliens that hate the country?