[carlivar]

Ultimately the issue is a lack of clear roles and responsibilities of a PM role defined, and a lack of accountability.

I agree with you that the "product org" is an entity that can become a political and bureaucratic entity rather than an enabler.

Personally, I think the Product role should be embedded within engineering teams and report up to the same leaders (level is debatable) so that a bad PM can be dealt with just like a bad engineer. Of course if your company can't get rid of bad engineers either, you have other problems.