[ukj]

It's pointless to speak of usefulness without specifying a utility function.

It is just as possible to differentiate as it is to integrate.

If it is determined a priori that unfalsifiable propositions are not useful, then knowing the result of the Halting Problem is not useful. Isn't that silly?

I strongly object to categorizations which discriminate against valid science (knowledge? truth? understanding? reasoning? Useful facts?). Is all.

The human process of trying to udnerstand reality is continuous, not discrete, so it's silly to reason about it in terms of discrete categories. It necessarily leads to confusion; and the sort of gatekeeping and self-justification Carl Sagan is guilty of.

Science benefits much more from being defined too broadly; than being defined too narrowly.

I'd rather be too permissive then ignore the junk; than be too restrictive and never even encounter good ideas which were erroneously discarded as junk.

[anonymous_sorry]

I don't think I said unfalsifiable propositions are not useful! A proven theorem is sacred!

Of course, until the laws of thermodynamics are revised we can provisionally say that all programs actually running in nature will indeed stop at some point, no matter what is proven about idealized Turing machines.

And before I'm misunderstood. There are many ways the laws of thermodynamics can be tested. This prediction, unfortunately, cannot be tested. But it is a predicted consequence of the simplest known theory that explains of all sorts of observations about thermodynamics. Which is the limit of what the natural sciences aim to do here. Provisional truth based on observation vs. proven truth based on stated axioms.

I am explicitly not claiming that one truth is to be valued more than the other. I honestly don't think that. Merely noting, again, that the distinction is there to be made. I may be "discriminating between", but I'm certainly not "discriminating against".

It may or may not be a continuum. Curious researchers on both sides can certainly be informed and inspired by each others work, and can use the same techniques and tools. But even if only as an academic exercise can't we describe these two modes of discovery. And isn't it worth being clear about their respective limits?

[ukj]

You seem to be missing the point. Ignoring for a second that the laws of thermodynamics themselves are based upon a handful of idealizations (the idealization of "thermal equilibrium", the idealization of "perfectly isolated system", the idealization of "perfect zero)...the laws of nature are encoded as formalisms/equations. Symbolic computations.

If you have no formalisms you can't compute any consequences - there is nothing to test. You have no science.

So treating Mathematics and science as "separate disciplines", even though they function as one symbiotic whole - that's the conceptual error.