[zorr]

That seems like missing the point of the article. What I understand the author to mean with Dart plan vs Typescript plan is the way these languages approached evolution of the base language (JavaScript).

Dart aimed to replace JavaScript completely and isn’t very compatible with it, leading to issues like not being able to leverage the existing library ecosystem. While the Typescript approach enhances the base language instead of replacing it and is still compatible with existing libraries.

When looking at language adoption, the Typescript approach seems to have worked a lot better than the Dart approach. If it wasn’t for Flutter, Dart would probably be irrelevant by now and Typescript is now pretty much everywhere where JavaScript is.

Another successful-ish example of the Typescript plan is Kotlin, which was originally designed as an improved Java, fully compatible with the existing ecosystem.

So I can see where the author comes from when trying to do the same thing for C++.

[tialaramex]

Herb would like to associate Cpp2 with Typescript (which is generally considered to have succeeded) and other 2022 C++ Successor Languages with Dart (not so much). Herb emphasises the way in which what he's done is like Typescript and de-emphasises ways in which it's entirely unlike Typescript.

I guess that's smart positioning. But a big problem Herb has is that the real alternative isn't any of those 2022 C++ Successor Languages. Ultimately your project will decide whether to stick with C++ or go to a language like Rust or maybe Swift. "Alternatives to C++" that might be finished some time in the next five years are irrelevant to that decision. It's like arguing that you're the best Chicago-style pizza joint in Naples. Who cares?

And when comparing against Rust or Swift, we're back to Herb's ten year head start problem also mentioned in this talk. Rust is what, 18 months away from its tenth anniversary of Rust 1.0? Swift is even closer.

[c-cube]

The problem with your argument is that swift is not, and cannot be, a replacement for C++. At best it can be an alternative for some programs, and on macOS only; for the rest of the world it's not very useful. And rust is great but the thing it lacks here is a great C++ interop story, the way TS has with JS and kotlin has with java. There's not really any language with that today (maybe D?) that also has a compelling story of being modern and safer than C++.

In that sense, cpp2 might get to the point of being usable while having perfect interop with C++ (as in, you can use any C++ library trivially, and you can mix it with C++ in a codebase on a per file, maybe even within files, easily) before Rust or swift or Carbon.