OK, having watched the video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqogvp1dGpk (8 minutes, so 4 minutes if you 2x it) I understand why they have such a hard time answering the question "What is Glamorous Toolkit?"
It's effectively a combination of a Smalltalk IDE, a Jupyter/Observable-style notebook environment and a tool somewhat like R Studio.
It's a hard thing to categorize, because it's not exactly the same kind of thing as anything else.
Part of the problem is that the way you use Smalltalk is pretty different from other programming languages already, due to the thing where you work within an "image" as opposed to just editing files on disk.
I emphasize with the challenge: I have a similar problem with my https://datasette.io/ project.
Glamorous seems like something no one asked for- aggregating a bunch of semi-related tools into a jack-of-all trades platform. I don't understand who it is for
This may be too late to this thread to matter, but I've been dabbling with GT for a few months, and I like it so far.
I'm using a few of the modalities mentioned in the article.
I use it as for "Pharo development" / Smalltalk IDE. I've tried a few times to learn Pharo and Smalltalk, but I've stuck with GT more than I ever had with raw Pharo. It feels nicer graphically, and, most importantly, it lets me write notes about what I'm doing and exploring and save them as part of the image. That means I can open GT and continue right from where I left off, even if it's been a month since I looked.
I use it for "Personal knowledge management", mostly. Little projects and analyses that occur to me. Nothing fancy, things like writing up why it's easier to get heads-tails in a sequence of coin flips than heads-heads, with a bit of simulation, a writeup of the Markov chain, derivation of expected times, etc. I've done that many times before, but it feels good to have it all together in an aesthetically-pleasing form. Bits on game odds, leetcode-ish algorithms exploration, general computational fiddling.
Once I figured it out, I like the git integration for both code and notebook pages. That goes a long way to reassuring me that the things I do won't be lost. I still don't quite get the Metacello / BaselineOfX dependency management, but I'll get there.
I did a little API browsing, mostly following the "Exploring the GitHub REST API in 7'" video by Oscar Nierstrasz (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vFwfwy5WZA). That series is excellent and I think does a good job of illustrating the power of the system and how it's different.
But, in general, it feels like a good "tool for thought".
The idea makes sense to me. It's basically Emacs, but using Smalltalk instead of Lisp. Instead of using plain text to create your user interface, you have access to a built-in UI toolkit. That's very neat!
What's more interesting to me is the fact that the Glamorous Toolkit UI looks perfectly crisp on my M1 MacBook screen, whereas the Pharo IDE is a blurry mess because it doesn't support "retina" screens. If GT is built on top of Pharo, then why does Pharo still not support high DPI screens?
GToolkit uses a completely parallel graphics stack to standard Pharo. The VM and library ecosystem are still there but the UI is rebuilt from scratch on a modern vector based toolkit.
The productivity of the GToolkit developers is impressive.
Having looked at the screenshots and read the text, I still have no idea what Glamorous Toolkit v1.0 is. If I had to guess, I'd say it's another attempt at 'notebook' style computing interfaces, but I suppose there's a reason the author is too coy to say that, so I am forced to conclude that I just don't know what it is, and the creator is unable or unwilling to tell me.
My current understanding is that it's similar to Emacs, but in this case it uses Smalltalk instead of Elisp.
It's an IDE who's selling point is that you should extend while coding.
If my day job uses Python, for example, is it pragmatic to use Glamorous Toolkit?
Yes, it has a few functions for editing code in some language .. but you get a lot more Python power from Intellij or Pycharm. I don't use Smalltalk but if I were, I would consider it, alongside Pharo or instead of Pharo.
"Glamorous Toolkit is the Moldable Development Environment. Moldable Development is a new perspective on programming through which we create custom tools for every development problem. We find that this ability changes the very nature of programming."
It's an IDE that lets you easily create tools for experimenting with your code.
The author is not unwilling to explain, he has lots of experience trying to explain and knows how hard it can be.
The best single sentence description, IMHO, is that GT (Glamorous Toolkit) is the current manifestation, implementation, proof of concept of the idea that making systems explainable through mouldable development is very powerful.
Furthermore it is a very nice tool in its own right (again IMHO).
Saying 'GT is x' where x is any of the subjects in the text is problematic. Most people will cling to one perspective, the one they are most familiar with or like the most, and mostly forget the other ones.
I had a fun time exploring both Glamorous Toolkit & BlueSky's @proto with https://github.com/feenkcom/gt4atproto . Neat experience. Docs & code meld nicely. Very handsome on experience.
Glad to hear it. Would you like to tell us more about what you found interesting (either here or on our Discord)? I am asking because that's my favorite public use case so far :).
I tried for an hour to set this up once. The docs were all over the place, you needed prerequisites that were hard to find and linked to 404s. Mysterious errors. Eventually my curiosity was overcome and I gave up.
Hmm, it should work just by downloading the ready made distribution in most systems without any other prerequisites. Would you like to detail what you tried? And what do you mean by 404?
OK, this is amazing, I was just thinking through on what to base a project that's been brewing in my head for weeks. This might do nicely.
Only problem is, I absolutely hate the GNOMEsque aesthetic.
Can't seem to find any info on changing its appearance. Of course it should be possible given the nature of the platform, but it really is offputting. The soft-corners and hamburger menu aesthetic really does not communicate what a powerful platform this is, and not being able to change it easily is really offputting.
simonw|2 years ago
It's effectively a combination of a Smalltalk IDE, a Jupyter/Observable-style notebook environment and a tool somewhat like R Studio.
It's a hard thing to categorize, because it's not exactly the same kind of thing as anything else.
Part of the problem is that the way you use Smalltalk is pretty different from other programming languages already, due to the thing where you work within an "image" as opposed to just editing files on disk.
I emphasize with the challenge: I have a similar problem with my https://datasette.io/ project.
dustingetz|2 years ago
chrisweekly|2 years ago
empathize, not emphasize
cxr|2 years ago
It's not too difficult to get close.
"It's the visual equivalent of Unix pipes."
"It's a browser inspector with an infinite/unbounded amount of Miller columns." (NB: the browser here is a Smalltalk browser and not a Web browser.)
Etc.
nylonstrung|2 years ago
Datasette is awesome btw
oddthink|2 years ago
I'm using a few of the modalities mentioned in the article.
I use it as for "Pharo development" / Smalltalk IDE. I've tried a few times to learn Pharo and Smalltalk, but I've stuck with GT more than I ever had with raw Pharo. It feels nicer graphically, and, most importantly, it lets me write notes about what I'm doing and exploring and save them as part of the image. That means I can open GT and continue right from where I left off, even if it's been a month since I looked.
I use it for "Personal knowledge management", mostly. Little projects and analyses that occur to me. Nothing fancy, things like writing up why it's easier to get heads-tails in a sequence of coin flips than heads-heads, with a bit of simulation, a writeup of the Markov chain, derivation of expected times, etc. I've done that many times before, but it feels good to have it all together in an aesthetically-pleasing form. Bits on game odds, leetcode-ish algorithms exploration, general computational fiddling.
Once I figured it out, I like the git integration for both code and notebook pages. That goes a long way to reassuring me that the things I do won't be lost. I still don't quite get the Metacello / BaselineOfX dependency management, but I'll get there.
I did a little API browsing, mostly following the "Exploring the GitHub REST API in 7'" video by Oscar Nierstrasz (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vFwfwy5WZA). That series is excellent and I think does a good job of illustrating the power of the system and how it's different.
But, in general, it feels like a good "tool for thought".
GeneralMaximus|2 years ago
What's more interesting to me is the fact that the Glamorous Toolkit UI looks perfectly crisp on my M1 MacBook screen, whereas the Pharo IDE is a blurry mess because it doesn't support "retina" screens. If GT is built on top of Pharo, then why does Pharo still not support high DPI screens?
lukego|2 years ago
The productivity of the GToolkit developers is impressive.
stonogo|2 years ago
tdrgabi|2 years ago
My current understanding is that it's similar to Emacs, but in this case it uses Smalltalk instead of Elisp.
It's an IDE who's selling point is that you should extend while coding.
If my day job uses Python, for example, is it pragmatic to use Glamorous Toolkit? Yes, it has a few functions for editing code in some language .. but you get a lot more Python power from Intellij or Pycharm. I don't use Smalltalk but if I were, I would consider it, alongside Pharo or instead of Pharo.
smokel|2 years ago
"Glamorous Toolkit is the Moldable Development Environment. Moldable Development is a new perspective on programming through which we create custom tools for every development problem. We find that this ability changes the very nature of programming."
It's an IDE that lets you easily create tools for experimenting with your code.
svc|2 years ago
The best single sentence description, IMHO, is that GT (Glamorous Toolkit) is the current manifestation, implementation, proof of concept of the idea that making systems explainable through mouldable development is very powerful.
Furthermore it is a very nice tool in its own right (again IMHO).
Saying 'GT is x' where x is any of the subjects in the text is problematic. Most people will cling to one perspective, the one they are most familiar with or like the most, and mostly forget the other ones.
There is lots of stuff to read or watch:
- https://blog.feenk.com/ - https://book.gtoolkit.com
(BTW, everything you see in the above two web sites is actually written inside GT, notebook style with active content).
But reading about it is no substitute to trying it out and experiencing it yourself, though there is a learning curve for sure.
mattlondon|2 years ago
Looks to me like basically a Jupyter notebook, but going horizontal instead of vertical.
I don't need that for reading API docs, thanks.
lukego|2 years ago
simonw|2 years ago
sebastianconcpt|2 years ago
celeritascelery|2 years ago
jauntywundrkind|2 years ago
tudorgirba|2 years ago
mark_l_watson|2 years ago
This is a great article, and convinced me to put refreshing Pharo Smalltalk and installing Glamorous on my Mac.
tudorgirba|2 years ago
user3939382|2 years ago
SuperNinKenDo|2 years ago
Are you saying you want to compile it from source, or are you unaware that there's binaries available?
oddthink|2 years ago
tudorgirba|2 years ago
faldore|2 years ago
SuperNinKenDo|2 years ago
Only problem is, I absolutely hate the GNOMEsque aesthetic.
Can't seem to find any info on changing its appearance. Of course it should be possible given the nature of the platform, but it really is offputting. The soft-corners and hamburger menu aesthetic really does not communicate what a powerful platform this is, and not being able to change it easily is really offputting.
seandenigris|2 years ago
unknown|2 years ago
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