[larksimian]

You're building CRUD apps. The conventions work and are extensible for teams of 1, 10, 100 and 1000s. You are not special and neither is your product. Companies making millions or billions of dollars have used this framework successfully.

This level of bike-shedding is what makes conventions necessary especially when dealing with the typical hyper-pedantic software developer. Just the thought of having to debate where to put every file in a project or having to invent a new folder structure for every app we build fills me with a bizarre mixture of boredom and rage.

As with everything in life the people that whine about the medicine the most are the ones that make it necessary.

[jupp0r]

Your model of companies using Rails with 1000s of engineers is almost comically naive. Look at what Shopify and Github have to do to make Rails work for them. Also look at the non Ruby code engineers there are writing and ask yourself why they might be doing it. Rails is not a religion. It can be good at what it does without having to go on a crusade when people point out its substantial limitations.

[mosselman]

If your reverse your comment you could say “only when your reach 100s of developers will you need to start changing things a bit.”

Sounds good to me. Most companies never reach that scale and if they do, I think investing into some extras will be well worth it.

Tobi looks pretty chill about it in the documentary.

[gv83]

you're seriously convinced they would have had no problems if they chose something else? every codebase that lasts that long and is used that much is going to face very hard challenges as it scales and meets new landmarks.

the maintainable codebase from day 1 to day 5000 is (mostly) a myth. yeah maybe some other stack could have faced different tradeoffs.

I'm also curious about YOUR choice of stack at this point.

[arnvald]

Is there any comparably complete framework that does not need any significant adjustments even when it's used by 1000s of developers building the same app?

[seattle_spring]

Can confirm. Nothing worse than figuring out what sort of "magic" is affecting a route in a huge Rails app. Oh look, a before_filter in a super class 4 levels up that is defined in an include helper. But wait, why isn't it affecting all calls and only some? Ah there's another chain of filters that you only can know about if you are familiar with the older Rails version API.

Rails is the "goto:" label of web frameworks. It's unbelievable how much it encourages spaghetti code and misdirection directly via its conventions.

[butlike]

I don't think it's necessarily bike shedding, and actually a lot of the sentiments resonated with me. Rails is a tool that does a tool's job. It's nice to know a hammer does hammer things when you're expecting it. If you need a level, maybe use a different tool. I think the main issue is everyone expecting it to be "one-size fits all." It was never meant to be that, really

[breakfastduck]

This is part of the problem with your claim - many of us are not building CRUD apps, we are building complex enterprise software and there are unique challenges to solve.

[ativzzz]

At the end of the day, all programming is CRUD at various levels of abstraction. You read some data, and then create/update/delete various forms of related data in various locations, like your DBMS or maybe a file or your GPU's VRAM

Rails provides a way to approach CRUD via MVC. Controllers are your API. Models are the connection to the Database. Views are what the controllers render.

If your app doesn't do these 3 things - API, Database, and representation of your API - you don't need rails (I bet you do those three things). Other than that, you're free to layer on whatever architecture via ruby that you want on top of these basic rails constructs. If you don't like it, again don't use rails. It's opinionated for a reason

[butlike]

Then I think the focus should be on the API. At enterprise level, the API becomes the language, and the frameworks (and even departments to an extent) become the functions/methods.

Business = program

Company = class (business can be a conglomerate)

Department = method

frameworks = implementation details

[berkes]

> You're building CRUD apps.

No. "we" are not.

[parthdesai]

> Domain. Team. Project Planning. Combine any of them and the projects demand different things, but with Rails you are out of luck

hmm, sounds like this rails app that one might have not heard bout. You should check it out. Think it's called Basecamp