I think in my 20s, I intellectually knew every piece of good advice I would send back in time now that I'm in my mid 40s, because I'd read it on lists like these, or in books, movies, etc.
The difference is that I could not put it into practice at the time, maybe because I lacked sufficient experience.
For example, I've always known in theory that nobody is paying as much attention to what you think is most embarrassing about yourself, because they are too busy being embarrassed about whatever they think they're doing wrong. I knew that, but it didn't matter, I was still self conscious.
Now, I've just done so many reps of fucking up in public and seeing the almost total lack of ramifications, or the swift passage of those ramifications from my world, that I actually believe that advice at a core level, it can actually affect my behavior and make me content. I guess it's the difference between knowing and grokking. And, to be sure, I would have been embarrassed to use the word grok in my 20s.
I'd liken it to feeling tired of feeling bad. After so many cycles of negative emotions at some point the brain gives up and embraces the thing it "knows" but hasn't internalized because it's the only way to escape to greener fields.
>I think in my 20s, I intellectually knew every piece of good advice I would send back in time
Reminds me of lyrics from The Human League "Soundtrack To A Generation":
Years have gone on in between
But all I knew at seventeen
Is all I know now
Through times of joy and suffering
The music flavours everything
That's all I know now
Of course you can be 30 and give advice. Is there a rule where you have to be a certain age to give advice?
Even if you're 10 years old, you are allowed to write on the Internet and no need to police yourself with arbitrarily "waiting".
Also an argument extrapolated on your own experience of 37 that nothing is figured out is not very good argument against when you can or cannot say something.
This sounds more like advice that he's gathered or been given that seemed the best to him. I think that's fair. People give young people advice a lot. Also becoming a dad makes one feel quite a bit older. Now it would be interesting to see him reflect back on these in 30 years...
I feel many people are more interesting in their 30s when they are still full of dreams and idealism than in their 50s after two marriages, a mortgage and a lot of hairloss.
Not completely true.. recognition of awkwardness also signals people that you're socially conscious to understand an action was not appropriate/good. The right thing to do in an awkward situation.. has no easy rules to write down really.
> Keep a can-do mindset.
> Don’t get discouraged because of existing work. Instead, try to find ways to put your own spin on it.
> Always do extra.
> Surround yourself with people who are passionate about their work.
Seems like work is important to him. If it were my list, I'd add: "Don't make your work your life unless you're really sure this is what you want."
edit: also regarding
> Always do extra.
Which he explains as:
> One thing I've noticed over the years is that there is at least one thing that seems to be common to every good, veteran programmer I know. They all follow the same deliberate and dare-I-say selfish rule to how they approach their time: Always do Extra.
I think it's mostly the fact that after you've ran around the same barn enough times, you know what whistles and chimes to hang up after you're done building it. So it looks like you "did extra" but it's really just random stuff you've picked up over the years that you can do easily but is somewhat impressive looking. Still a good tip but I'd say it's less about motivation and just.. how it works.
edit2:
> Think of yourself as the person you want to be, not the person you are.
For motivation, sure. It's very important to know your own faults, insecurities, weaknesses etc. since knowing when you're wrong is just as important as knowing when you're right. Sometimes more.
I can't help but roll my eyes at that line. It's cargo culting at its best. Good programmers do extra because they enjoy it. If a person does not enjoy programming chances are they don't do it enough to be exceptional at it, and forcing themselves to "do extra" will not help and could backfire.
Advice is all about course-correction. Some people are too timid, others to arrogant. Some too impulsive, others too cautious. Some people should work harder, other people should be reminded there is more to life than work.
For any piece of good advice the opposite is also good advice, but for a different person! That’s what the author of this list doesn’t seem to get. Advice is about adjusting behavior in a specific direction, and that is very personal because the mistakes we make in life are personal.
Generic advice tends to have the opposite effect. It tends to confirm people’s biases. It makes people double-down on behavior that holds them back.
> Think of yourself as the person you want to be, not the person you are.
I have always done this subconsciously, and although I can attribute a lot of my personal growth to this trait, it's also the source of a lot of self-loathing. If you can't accept the parts of you that differs from who you want to be, you'll spend a lot of energy focusing on perceived mistakes that others didn't even notice.
I'll be a bit adversarial in my own observation (as a 42 year old)
In my older experiences, people who'd climbed a mountain's worth of knowledge would be recognised. Nowadays, we tend to witness people climbing the mountain because the information is so freely available, and tbf, eminently marketable.
Tell me about it when you've reached the top.
There's plenty of us putting in the effort one way or another.
You have to treat "Helping Other People Succeed" as iterated prisoners dilemma. The tit-for-tat strategy seems best in the real world. If you help and they defect, you have to defect in response. IE don't let them continue to take advantage of you. But you should cooperate first round.
> Don’t make your problems other people’s problems.
> Read more books.
> It’s only awkward if you make it awkward.
> People care more about stories than facts.
> Don’t let your expenses rise as fast as your income.
> Less is more.
> Curious people are smart. Be curious.
> Don’t be afraid to look stupid.
> It’s never as easy as it looks.
> Perfection is the enemy of good.
> Under-promise and over-deliver.
This reads more like a list of clichés I can find on posters plastered on the walls of a depressing accounting office than actual life advice. Then again, I don't trust the advice of someone who's only made it to 1/3 of his life expectancy.
“It has gradually become clear to me what every great philosophy up till now has consisted of – namely, the confession of its originator, and a species of involuntary and unconscious autobiography; and moreover that the moral (or immoral) purpose in every philosophy has constituted the true vital germ out of which the entire plant has always grown.”
I think "philosophy" can be replaced with "advice" and it still applies.
all this is good advice but you need to be lucky to be surrounded by good people.
One day in a team meeting I spent 15 minutes trying to argue with 2 senior developers on why it didn't make sense to me how they had declared CSS "variables" like this --10px: 10px; and were using var(--10px) in various classes all over the CSS. Team manager was in the meeting, who was basically just sitting there and ignoring all the conversation.
> Inspired by Kevin Kelly’s incredible 68 Bits of Unsolicited Advice [1]
> [1] The Internet Archive has the full version.
This makes me so sad, I remember reading Kevin's article back when it had the full 68 items, now it's been stripped down to the first 5 items and the rest (plus 450 more) are squirreled away into an Amazon book which he recommends people buy instead in the post. Isn't that awful? Thank god for the Wayback Machine.
Great list! I'm in my 50s and all of this resonates with me but when I was 30 I was missing a few. My top one at this point is "Help others succeed, and they’ll help you succeed in the long term." As I'm reaching the end of my career I can say that this behavior has been a winner 100% of the time.
Also along these lines, "Remember that there are people out there eager to help others." Early in my career I was afraid everyone was too busy to help, or too important to bother. Some surely were. But many people I thought were unapproachable were so enthusiastic to help and excited about sharing and taking about their work, and making opportunities with someone who wanted to learn. Now when I can I try to pay that forward. I don't think I've ever been in a position to pay back someone who helped me, but it's made me more grateful and generous.
> My top one at this point is "Help others succeed, and they’ll help you succeed in the long term." As I'm reaching the end of my career I can say that this behavior has been a winner 100% of the time.
You must not have helped too many people if everyone always returned to help you. Maybe you sorted out all the bad people before helping them.
Did you follow the link in the footnote? [0] I thought it made the case for doing extra quite convincingly.
The gist of the argument is that it's worth spending some small proportion of your work time on exploratory work that might or might not pay off, as opposed to doing more "normal" work (another sprint task or whatever).
For me it described pretty well what I'd already been doing subconsciously for some time. I thought it was interesting to see it framed that way.
karaterobot|2 years ago
The difference is that I could not put it into practice at the time, maybe because I lacked sufficient experience.
For example, I've always known in theory that nobody is paying as much attention to what you think is most embarrassing about yourself, because they are too busy being embarrassed about whatever they think they're doing wrong. I knew that, but it didn't matter, I was still self conscious.
Now, I've just done so many reps of fucking up in public and seeing the almost total lack of ramifications, or the swift passage of those ramifications from my world, that I actually believe that advice at a core level, it can actually affect my behavior and make me content. I guess it's the difference between knowing and grokking. And, to be sure, I would have been embarrassed to use the word grok in my 20s.
dj_mc_merlin|2 years ago
PopAlongKid|2 years ago
Reminds me of lyrics from The Human League "Soundtrack To A Generation":
rjh29|2 years ago
hyperfuturism|2 years ago
Even if you're 10 years old, you are allowed to write on the Internet and no need to police yourself with arbitrarily "waiting".
Also an argument extrapolated on your own experience of 37 that nothing is figured out is not very good argument against when you can or cannot say something.
AdamN|2 years ago
abahlo|2 years ago
moribvndvs|2 years ago
ricardo81|2 years ago
iisan7|2 years ago
wolframhempel|2 years ago
unknown|2 years ago
[deleted]
felixnm|2 years ago
unknown|2 years ago
[deleted]
dj_mc_merlin|2 years ago
Not completely true.. recognition of awkwardness also signals people that you're socially conscious to understand an action was not appropriate/good. The right thing to do in an awkward situation.. has no easy rules to write down really.
> Keep a can-do mindset.
> Don’t get discouraged because of existing work. Instead, try to find ways to put your own spin on it.
> Always do extra.
> Surround yourself with people who are passionate about their work.
Seems like work is important to him. If it were my list, I'd add: "Don't make your work your life unless you're really sure this is what you want."
edit: also regarding
> Always do extra.
Which he explains as:
> One thing I've noticed over the years is that there is at least one thing that seems to be common to every good, veteran programmer I know. They all follow the same deliberate and dare-I-say selfish rule to how they approach their time: Always do Extra.
I think it's mostly the fact that after you've ran around the same barn enough times, you know what whistles and chimes to hang up after you're done building it. So it looks like you "did extra" but it's really just random stuff you've picked up over the years that you can do easily but is somewhat impressive looking. Still a good tip but I'd say it's less about motivation and just.. how it works.
edit2:
> Think of yourself as the person you want to be, not the person you are.
For motivation, sure. It's very important to know your own faults, insecurities, weaknesses etc. since knowing when you're wrong is just as important as knowing when you're right. Sometimes more.
foobarian|2 years ago
gizmo|2 years ago
For any piece of good advice the opposite is also good advice, but for a different person! That’s what the author of this list doesn’t seem to get. Advice is about adjusting behavior in a specific direction, and that is very personal because the mistakes we make in life are personal.
Generic advice tends to have the opposite effect. It tends to confirm people’s biases. It makes people double-down on behavior that holds them back.
kite42|2 years ago
> It’s only awkward if you make it awkward.
Or THEY make it awkward.
> Don’t make your problems other people’s problems.
Well, yea... Also don't attack other people, and don't steal from other people, ...
> Help others succeed, and they’ll help you succeed in the long term.
Hard no. Many will take advantage of your time and advice, and never return the favor. Choose wisely who you help succeed.
> Don’t let your expenses rise as fast as your income.
Once again, very generic. Don't spend more than you make.
On the other hand, some of this stuff is actually never mentioned but useful
> Keep a brag document
> Under-promise and over-deliver.
mcemilg|2 years ago
> Be kind first, be right later.
Being kind is good, we should not forget to stand up for what you believe.
> People care more about stories than facts.
It doesn't feel virtuous, in the end, what's true matters more than stories.
> Think of yourself as the person you want to be, not the person you are.
It's good to know who you really are, not just who you want to be.
> Surround yourself with people who are passionate about their work.
Being passionate doesn't always mean it's good. Even a passionate slave is still a slave.
dromtrund|2 years ago
I have always done this subconsciously, and although I can attribute a lot of my personal growth to this trait, it's also the source of a lot of self-loathing. If you can't accept the parts of you that differs from who you want to be, you'll spend a lot of energy focusing on perceived mistakes that others didn't even notice.
scns|2 years ago
This sentence helped change me from being close minded to open to new experiences
ricardo81|2 years ago
In my older experiences, people who'd climbed a mountain's worth of knowledge would be recognised. Nowadays, we tend to witness people climbing the mountain because the information is so freely available, and tbf, eminently marketable.
Tell me about it when you've reached the top.
There's plenty of us putting in the effort one way or another.
buggythebug|2 years ago
Helping other people succeed guarantees nothing for you - people can be selfish - especially in business
Since romantic relationships are often an important aspect of one's life, I would also add: If you're interested in someone go talk to them.
yCombLinks|2 years ago
icepat|2 years ago
Sometimes helping people is an end in itself.
gaws|2 years ago
> Don’t make your problems other people’s problems.
> Read more books.
> It’s only awkward if you make it awkward.
> People care more about stories than facts.
> Don’t let your expenses rise as fast as your income.
> Less is more.
> Curious people are smart. Be curious.
> Don’t be afraid to look stupid.
> It’s never as easy as it looks.
> Perfection is the enemy of good.
> Under-promise and over-deliver.
This reads more like a list of clichés I can find on posters plastered on the walls of a depressing accounting office than actual life advice. Then again, I don't trust the advice of someone who's only made it to 1/3 of his life expectancy.
disambiguation|2 years ago
“It has gradually become clear to me what every great philosophy up till now has consisted of – namely, the confession of its originator, and a species of involuntary and unconscious autobiography; and moreover that the moral (or immoral) purpose in every philosophy has constituted the true vital germ out of which the entire plant has always grown.”
I think "philosophy" can be replaced with "advice" and it still applies.
robofanatic|2 years ago
One day in a team meeting I spent 15 minutes trying to argue with 2 senior developers on why it didn't make sense to me how they had declared CSS "variables" like this --10px: 10px; and were using var(--10px) in various classes all over the CSS. Team manager was in the meeting, who was basically just sitting there and ignoring all the conversation.
I gave up and just approved the PR.
SPBS|2 years ago
> [1] The Internet Archive has the full version.
This makes me so sad, I remember reading Kevin's article back when it had the full 68 items, now it's been stripped down to the first 5 items and the rest (plus 450 more) are squirreled away into an Amazon book which he recommends people buy instead in the post. Isn't that awful? Thank god for the Wayback Machine.
zwieback|2 years ago
iisan7|2 years ago
theandrewbailey|2 years ago
You must not have helped too many people if everyone always returned to help you. Maybe you sorted out all the bad people before helping them.
PopAlongKid|2 years ago
More importantly, don't make other people's problems your problems.
unknown|2 years ago
[deleted]
pyrophane|2 years ago
I would give somewhat different advice in place of this:
Lean to accept yourself for who you are, not as a work in progress toward becoming someone else.
weinzierl|2 years ago
This is an odd one. Seems trivial, what does it mean?
mbb70|2 years ago
ozim|2 years ago
financltravsty|2 years ago
ricardo81|2 years ago
Thaxll|2 years ago
What do I get by doing that?
jplrssn|2 years ago
The gist of the argument is that it's worth spending some small proportion of your work time on exploratory work that might or might not pay off, as opposed to doing more "normal" work (another sprint task or whatever).
For me it described pretty well what I'd already been doing subconsciously for some time. I thought it was interesting to see it framed that way.
[0] https://www.bennorthrop.com/Essays/2021/always-do-extra.php
AnimalMuppet|2 years ago
bbokan|2 years ago
abahlo|2 years ago
echan00|2 years ago
mtrees_io|2 years ago
iainctduncan|2 years ago
The hubris of the tech bro knows no bounds! lol