Yeah, that took some dedication, and because we aren't all as dedicated or physicist here are some practical tips I've learned:
1. When an officer asks how fast you were going, never say anything over the speed limit or that's automatic guilt. Just decline to know or tell. A lot of people say within a +5-10mph range over the speed limit because they think that is "ok", but in fact anything over the speed limit is speeding and is ticket worthy.
2. Look up laws in your area about loopholes. I once had a friend who got pulled over for doing a burn out in his Cobra, the officer was so aggravated he forgot to wear his hat when he got out of his car and the case got dismissed because of it.
3. Always be polite. Always, always, always. Even if they're real jerks, which has never happened to me, always be courteous and make things go as smoothly as possible. If you start being an ass they WILL remember it and will take that into consideration when writing the ticket and/or in front of the judge. You'll have a chance to give your side in court, so don't bother wasting your breath with the officer.
4. I once got out of a reckless driving ticket ($400+, I was young and dumb) because I just happened to know the director of the area highway patrol. It turned out I was in the top 5 worst tickets the highway patrolman had ever given out in his 20+ years of duty. My director friend told him I was a good kid and my parents were going to kill me anyway, so he let me off.
5. And really, the single most best way to not get a ticket, don't break the rules. Of course in this guys case the officer apparently was mistaken, but more times than not that's not the case.
This got large quickly. Just some things I've learned over a few years of driving.
The #1 thing I do when stopped is go out of my way to 1) prioritize officer safety and 2) avoid generating probable cause for a vehicle search.
i.e. pull over in a place which is safe for both vehicles and for the officer on foot, keep hands visible all the time, turn on dome light, put keys on dashboard, and be polite. Also I tend to announce any moves, like "my wallet is in my back pocket, reaching for it with my left hand", which is overly cautious, but subtly communicates to the officer that you are familiar with police procedures and concerns. You can usually see him visibly relax, at which point it's likely the interaction will be more pleasant. Don't volunteer more information than necessary, but answer questions politely and clearly. (usually, it's just "license and registration." and then "do you know why I stopped you" "no officer"...)
I've gotten >120mph written at 80mph in a 70mph by doing this, several times (I-5 + V8 + empty road...), which can be traffic-schooled. I don't care about a $150 ticket, I care about potentially getting the car impounded for reckless driving, or a vehicle search, or points.
- Use the most official title: 'Yes Trooper', 'Thank you sheriff', etc.
- Be honest, authentic and remorseful, but not apologetic. (I don't agree with #1)
- Be well groomed. After I got my beard and hair cut, I stopped getting tickets. I've gotten 8 consecutive warnings, most verbal. Before getting 'cleaned up', I got 9 tickets and 1 warning.
- Have a woman in the car. Doesn't have to say anything, just smile and reply to questions.
- Pull over, turn on the dome light and leave your hands on the steering wheel. I lower my window when a flashlight hits me, and only get paper work in response to a command.
My streak of warnings still dumbfounds me. I even got pulled over twice after a superbowl for a tail light and got a verbal warning twice.
> in fact anything over the speed limit is speeding and is ticket worthy.
This actually varies per jurisdiction, though that's still a good general rule. In Florida, for example, you can't be ticketed for 1-4mph over the limit thanks to a law that was passed to eliminate speed traps.
It may not always be a good idea, but for me, when I get pulled over, I get out of the car immediately. In my 20s I was pulled over so many times for 'random' car checks that were really about bored policemen passing time, that I started to get out of the car first to upset the dynamic.
It helps that I'm really tall, but it's worth it for the look on their face when it turns from 'bored paternalism' to 'we might have to watch what's going on here'; it takes some of the initiative from them. It's a subtle way to change the power dynamic, especially if you're tall - you can no longer be talked down to, plus you're free to move. Being free to move isn't about posing a physical threat, but being able to control your end of the conversation better, plus you can watch what they're doing. Of course you should always, always remain polite, but screw being in the entirely submissive position of being locked into your seat.
Incidentally, the 'random' checks have stopped in the past 5 years that I've had a newer car... and curiously my mother has never been 'randomly' stopped.
A friend of mine beat a speeding ticket once by demonstrating that it was physically impossible for him to have slowed down from the claimed speed and stopped in the location where the officer wrote the ticket.
A guy from my parents' church beat a speeding ticket by demonstrating that the motorcycle cop would have had to reach a speed of over 160 mph in order to clock him at the speed measured at location A and then catch him by location B.
I once failed to beat a speeding ticket by not noticing that the officer had forgot to introduce the ticket into evidence. I introduced it, the judge said "Really? Are you sure?", I missed the hint, and since a ticket is evidence of speeding in Massachusetts, my case was kinda shot...
If you're in California, trial by written declaration[1] is a great way to deal with minor traffic violations. The way it works is that you fill out a form[2] giving your version of events, and submit a check for the amount of the ticket. The beauty of this is that the officer also has to fill out a form giving his version of events - and if he doesn't, you automatically win and your money is refunded. It's the equivalent of the officer not showing up to your court case. If he does submit the form you might still win if the judge sides with you. And if you lose, you can request another trial by written declaration. I'm 2/2 using this strategy for minor violations, and I haven't had to waste any time in traffic court. In both cases I won because the officer did not submit his version of events - probably because it's boring work and they had better things to do.
> or maybe he was simply impressed by the sheer dedication Krioukov put into avoiding this ticket.
This seems more likely.
I beat a speeding ticket with GPS data once - except the judge didn't even ask to see the data. I just said I had it. (Yes, the officer was there in court too.) The judge said he'd take my word for it.
My friend always appears in court after getting speeding tickets because it is apparently more costly for the court to pay for the session and the officer's time than what they will get from a ticket, so they usually dismiss it to save money. Sometimes the officers don't even show up. He has told me it works every time.
MechE here, the limiting factor for car accelerations is usually the static coefficient of friction between the car tires and the road, _not_ the power of the brakes or strength of the engine.
Without ABS braking, it is quite easy to "skid" while applying a harsh brake because you overcome the limit of force between the tires and the road. Similarly, it is quite easy to "burnout" as well with a strong engine for the same reason.
So although the strength of the two systems is not the same, the limiting factor for both of them is identical. Hence, symmetry.
A modern hatchback (VW Golf) with good tires on a perfect road can decelerate at 1g with a pro driver. In tests regular drivers posted between 0.9 - 0.6g in a range of cars from Ferrari to Honda civic.
To do 1g in acceleration you would need to do 0-60 in 2.75s that MIGHT be possible for a $1M supercar (or a bike ;-)
> I want to ask the readership to please find the flaw in the argument.
"The officer had special two-week training that qualifies him to estimate angular velocity whichever the fucking way he wants, even with a completely obstructed view."
Courtesy of Canadian reality. Plot me a graph to counter that.
Right, so I do not know about California, but in Canada if at stop sign the back of your car did not have a chance to come full way down on suspension, the stop is not considered to be performed properly. His charts assume instantaneous change in acceleration let alone any "settle down" period.
I had a similar story. I once sped through a traffic intersection and a cop car coming from the other way perpendicular to my heading. He turned immediately and chased me down. After stopping, he ordered me out and said I was doing 110mph. I was like there's no fucking way I was doing 110. The car felt very different going 110 than 60. He was saying I looked like going very fast. The only thing that ran through my mind was to get a lawyer. Amazingly he left me go after lectured me for a while. I guessed he wasn't sure exactly how fast I went.
I was wondering how can he misjudge the speed so far apart. This article explained the phonomena.
I have a question about avg ticket costs. My first (and so far, only) ticket was in LA for crossing a solid HOV line. The ticket itself was 80-100. However, they added a ton of fees to it (the best one I remember was a fee for courthouse improvement but there were fees by the county of LA and the city of LA). All-in-all, the grand total was around 400. Is this just a California thing? I don't see how people can eat in that state when a ticket costs this much.
A buddy of mine tried the same thing (math in court) using the weight of his SUV, the HP of the engine, and other things to show he couldn't have been speeding at the location the officer said he was.
Result: "Too bad. Pay me."
Like they say in the movies; with law it's what is the truth, and what you can prove. He failed the latter and got a hefty fine.
Why is it that most comments here are about ways to fool a policeman and avoid a speeding ticket ? I was expecting more advices on reducing your speed and driving safely.
It is amazing that a judge would even listen to this in a non-criminal and minor offense case. Most places I know it'd just be dismissed and the fine upheld.
[+] [-] joshmlewis|14 years ago|reply
1. When an officer asks how fast you were going, never say anything over the speed limit or that's automatic guilt. Just decline to know or tell. A lot of people say within a +5-10mph range over the speed limit because they think that is "ok", but in fact anything over the speed limit is speeding and is ticket worthy.
2. Look up laws in your area about loopholes. I once had a friend who got pulled over for doing a burn out in his Cobra, the officer was so aggravated he forgot to wear his hat when he got out of his car and the case got dismissed because of it.
3. Always be polite. Always, always, always. Even if they're real jerks, which has never happened to me, always be courteous and make things go as smoothly as possible. If you start being an ass they WILL remember it and will take that into consideration when writing the ticket and/or in front of the judge. You'll have a chance to give your side in court, so don't bother wasting your breath with the officer.
4. I once got out of a reckless driving ticket ($400+, I was young and dumb) because I just happened to know the director of the area highway patrol. It turned out I was in the top 5 worst tickets the highway patrolman had ever given out in his 20+ years of duty. My director friend told him I was a good kid and my parents were going to kill me anyway, so he let me off.
5. And really, the single most best way to not get a ticket, don't break the rules. Of course in this guys case the officer apparently was mistaken, but more times than not that's not the case.
This got large quickly. Just some things I've learned over a few years of driving.
[+] [-] rdl|14 years ago|reply
i.e. pull over in a place which is safe for both vehicles and for the officer on foot, keep hands visible all the time, turn on dome light, put keys on dashboard, and be polite. Also I tend to announce any moves, like "my wallet is in my back pocket, reaching for it with my left hand", which is overly cautious, but subtly communicates to the officer that you are familiar with police procedures and concerns. You can usually see him visibly relax, at which point it's likely the interaction will be more pleasant. Don't volunteer more information than necessary, but answer questions politely and clearly. (usually, it's just "license and registration." and then "do you know why I stopped you" "no officer"...)
I've gotten >120mph written at 80mph in a 70mph by doing this, several times (I-5 + V8 + empty road...), which can be traffic-schooled. I don't care about a $150 ticket, I care about potentially getting the car impounded for reckless driving, or a vehicle search, or points.
[+] [-] KingOfB|14 years ago|reply
- Use the most official title: 'Yes Trooper', 'Thank you sheriff', etc.
- Be honest, authentic and remorseful, but not apologetic. (I don't agree with #1)
- Be well groomed. After I got my beard and hair cut, I stopped getting tickets. I've gotten 8 consecutive warnings, most verbal. Before getting 'cleaned up', I got 9 tickets and 1 warning.
- Have a woman in the car. Doesn't have to say anything, just smile and reply to questions.
- Pull over, turn on the dome light and leave your hands on the steering wheel. I lower my window when a flashlight hits me, and only get paper work in response to a command.
My streak of warnings still dumbfounds me. I even got pulled over twice after a superbowl for a tail light and got a verbal warning twice.
[+] [-] cperciva|14 years ago|reply
That really sounds like an urban myth.
[+] [-] culturestate|14 years ago|reply
This actually varies per jurisdiction, though that's still a good general rule. In Florida, for example, you can't be ticketed for 1-4mph over the limit thanks to a law that was passed to eliminate speed traps.
[+] [-] rhizome|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] vacri|14 years ago|reply
It helps that I'm really tall, but it's worth it for the look on their face when it turns from 'bored paternalism' to 'we might have to watch what's going on here'; it takes some of the initiative from them. It's a subtle way to change the power dynamic, especially if you're tall - you can no longer be talked down to, plus you're free to move. Being free to move isn't about posing a physical threat, but being able to control your end of the conversation better, plus you can watch what they're doing. Of course you should always, always remain polite, but screw being in the entirely submissive position of being locked into your seat.
Incidentally, the 'random' checks have stopped in the past 5 years that I've had a newer car... and curiously my mother has never been 'randomly' stopped.
[+] [-] sosuke|14 years ago|reply
April fools perhaps?
[+] [-] whackberry|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] bcl|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] lotharbot|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] jaylevitt|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] defen|14 years ago|reply
[1] http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d17/vc40902.htm
[2] http://www.courts.ca.gov/documents/tr205.pdf
[+] [-] dmd|14 years ago|reply
This seems more likely.
I beat a speeding ticket with GPS data once - except the judge didn't even ask to see the data. I just said I had it. (Yes, the officer was there in court too.) The judge said he'd take my word for it.
[+] [-] 0bs1di4n|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] drucken|14 years ago|reply
Surely, there is no (ordinary) retail car on the planet which can accelerate as fast as it decelerates?
[+] [-] mistercow|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] xxbondsxx|14 years ago|reply
Without ABS braking, it is quite easy to "skid" while applying a harsh brake because you overcome the limit of force between the tires and the road. Similarly, it is quite easy to "burnout" as well with a strong engine for the same reason.
So although the strength of the two systems is not the same, the limiting factor for both of them is identical. Hence, symmetry.
[+] [-] tedmiston|14 years ago|reply
He claims in his model, 'his car decelerated at - 10 m/s^2 and, instantaneously, accelerated to + 10 m/s^2 at t = 0'.
No known mechanical system is capable of achieving such an instantaneous jump without a tail-off period. ...."
[+] [-] excuse-me|14 years ago|reply
To do 1g in acceleration you would need to do 0-60 in 2.75s that MIGHT be possible for a $1M supercar (or a bike ;-)
[+] [-] ktizo|14 years ago|reply
Just goes to show, if you haven't got a hope in hell, try bullshit and long words.
[edit] Just looked up formula one cars, they are 2g acceleration and 5g braking apparently.
[+] [-] loverobots|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] huhtenberg|14 years ago|reply
"The officer had special two-week training that qualifies him to estimate angular velocity whichever the fucking way he wants, even with a completely obstructed view."
Courtesy of Canadian reality. Plot me a graph to counter that.
[+] [-] mynegation|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] ww520|14 years ago|reply
I was wondering how can he misjudge the speed so far apart. This article explained the phonomena.
[+] [-] codezero|14 years ago|reply
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3830019
[+] [-] m_for_monkey|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] throwaway1979|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] michaelcampbell|14 years ago|reply
Result: "Too bad. Pay me."
Like they say in the movies; with law it's what is the truth, and what you can prove. He failed the latter and got a hefty fine.
[+] [-] gwern|14 years ago|reply
Good economics reasoning too - losing a loss is as good as gaining a gain.
[+] [-] nmridul|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] whackberry|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] eriktrautman|14 years ago|reply
[+] [-] Steko|14 years ago|reply
Physicist: "Pretty much cold feet and sneezes your honor, QED."
Judge: "Well seeing as how you're a member of the affluent class I shall not inconvenience you further."